1. #28351
    Astonishing Member SquirrelMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    Unfortunately, the spread of a virus won't work that way. It is not as if a virus has any way of knowing how anyone will vote. More Republicans getting and spreading the virus just means more virus for all of us.
    Not if the rest of us is vaccinated.

    It's bad news, of course, for those among us who actually cannot have the vacccine because of an allergy or something.

  2. #28352
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    You're going to have to forgive me if I respect the opinion of a woman who's spent 40 years on workplace equality over a guy who has argued multiple times about how Stephen Miller isn't actually a white nationalist and considers her ideas "damaging".
    The ideas are damaging because it's racist as hell to suggest that virtues like planning for the future, caring about intent when considering punishment, or getting married before having kids are inherently white.

    There is separate problem in the appeal to authority response that we should respect the opinion of a particular scholar, and not discuss it further. Scholars can be wrong, and they can also be misunderstood.

    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    Again, they're stereotypes. They aren't across the board, and they aren't all very accurate. That's why there was a controversy. For all I know it was meant to drum up a controversy to continue the dialogue on race. If it were accepted at face value it would be very ignorant/racist, and insulting to everyone stereotyped.

    They use the excuse that it's meant to facilitate discussion, but I'm not sure how that works as the text was informational,
    rather than a conversation-starter. It's certainly not done in a way that helps people of ordinary intellects/ backgrounds have a discussion about sensitive topics.

    It's also not about stereotypes, as they say that these are examples of whiteness or white dominant culture, internalized by Americans, including people of color

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    My take, and where I think Mets got this completely wrong, is that these "white" traits are not there to say that they are valued over the traits of other races. They are there to show how many positive traits are seen as "White". This puts other races viewed as don't
    It's not an attack on these traits, it's an attack on people who think they are part of being white.
    Met's, your whiteness isn't being attacked, the racist history of the United States is.
    What all these laws aim to do is to keep out the discussion of the endemic racism that has always been a part of this country. They aim to remove slavery, Jim Crow and Civil Rights out of the history.
    Your skewed view as a Republican is once again wrong.
    My concern is what the chart says about people of color, not what it says about white people.

    There could be a reasonable argument that positive attributes are wrongly associated with white people. The chart at the Smithsonian didn't seem to be making it. Their argument is that these are attitudes that have been normalized and internalized, rather than these are virtues wrongly associated with white people. They're combining things that are value neutral (children having their own rooms) and sometimes bad (an understanding that a person's value is based on their salary, intolerance of polytheists) with good things they're associating with whiteness.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  3. #28353
    Amazing Member Adam Allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquirrelMan View Post
    Not if the rest of us is vaccinated.

    It's bad news, of course, for those among us who actually cannot have the vacccine because of an allergy or something.
    That's just it -- I mean, I'm all on board for getting vaccinated, just got my first shot on Friday, despite that I don't have any health issues or reason to think I should be at huge risk, if I did get Covid. I'd still just feel better about everyone's risk in general, if there were not so many people being all anti-vax about it.
    Last edited by Adam Allen; 05-03-2021 at 12:11 PM.
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  4. #28354
    Invincible Jersey Ninja Tami's Avatar
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    Stereotyping is bad no matter which way you do it. Labeling one group of people as having uniform behaviors, values, societal norms, or attributes either denigrates everyone in that group if the labels are negative, or denies others who are not a part of that group from being acknowledged as having the same attributes if those are positive.

    If you are raised in a limited, semi-isolated, close-knit community, then you are more likely (though not always) to share attributes with your neighbors.

    In the U.S. those bonds have been broken, reformed, and broken again so many times it's impossible to truly give groups any type of attribute anymore. You find these most often in communities that a re comprised mostly of recent immigrants from the same country. But over generations, things change.

    What I'm saying is that you could list a hundred different stereotypical attributes, both positive and negative, and ask a random group of people to chose those that best describe themselves and those that best describe someone else they know. I am certain that these choices will not easily match into any preconceived pattern for any specific ethnic, racial, religious, or other groups. Not unless the person being surveyed is being dishonest with themselves and is intentionally only choosing those they believe fit the stereotype of the group that they most identify with.

    if I was a Univesity Professor or someone with the resources to conduct a study like this I'd love to do so. I'm certain that my hypotheses would be proven to be correct.
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  5. #28355
    Ultimate Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    Stereotyping is bad no matter which way you do it. Labeling one group of people as having uniform behaviors, values, societal norms, or attributes either denigrates everyone in that group if the labels are negative, or denies others who are not a part of that group from being acknowledged as having the same attributes if those are positive.

    If you are raised in a limited, semi-isolated, close-knit community, then you are more likely (though not always) to share attributes with your neighbors.

    In the U.S. those bonds have been broken, reformed, and broken again so many times it's impossible to truly give groups any type of attribute anymore. You find these most often in communities that a re comprised mostly of recent immigrants from the same country. But over generations, things change.

    What I'm saying is that you could list a hundred different stereotypical attributes, both positive and negative, and ask a random group of people to chose those that best describe themselves and those that best describe someone else they know. I am certain that these choices will not easily match into any preconceived pattern for any specific ethnic, racial, religious, or other groups. Not unless the person being surveyed is being dishonest with themselves and is intentionally only choosing those they believe fit the stereotype of the group that they most identify with.

    if I was a Univesity Professor or someone with the resources to conduct a study like this I'd love to do so. I'm certain that my hypotheses would be proven to be correct.
    I would love to see a study like this. This was a very well put post.
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  6. #28356
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquirrelMan View Post
    Not if the rest of us is vaccinated.

    It's bad news, of course, for those among us who actually cannot have the vacccine because of an allergy or something.
    The more people don't get vaccinated, the more you get the chance of having a variant resistant to the vaccine appear. Simple as that. Unvaccinated people are making things more dangerous for everyone.

  7. #28357
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    https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2021/05/...fied-students/

    Unhinged GOP lawmaker arrested after trying to be a substitute teacher. He terrified the students.
    He allegedly kicked a student's groin, asked teens about their masturbation habits, and ranted about a foster child that he claims attempted suicide because of lesbian parents.

    This is terrifying. This GOP lawmaker should never be let close to young people, because all he loves is kicking them in their private parties.

  8. #28358
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    Quote Originally Posted by mogwen View Post
    https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2021/05/...fied-students/

    Unhinged GOP lawmaker arrested after trying to be a substitute teacher. He terrified the students.
    He allegedly kicked a student's groin, asked teens about their masturbation habits, and ranted about a foster child that he claims attempted suicide because of lesbian parents.

    This is terrifying. This GOP lawmaker should never be let close to young people, because all he loves is kicking them in their private parties.
    Given he's Republican I'm surprised that's all he did with their privates

  9. #28359

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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLGO 13 View Post
    The Christo-fascist death cult demands their cult members follow their leaders orders, especially if it leads to their utter annihilation. Meh, I'll make popcorn & the mojitos while we watch.
    "WE'LL KILL OUR OWN AND THEY CAN'T STOP US! THAT'LL OWN THE LIBS!"

    Not even joking.
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  10. #28360
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    "WE'LL KILL OUR OWN AND THEY CAN'T STOP US! THAT'LL OWN THE LIBS!"

    Not even joking.
    "I'd rather be Russian than a Democrat."

    That's another modern GQP slogan that is stupid as Hell.

    That was being sold at a NRA and Trump fundraiser last election.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  11. #28361
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Cherry picking.
    If you're right about this, it should say somewhere in the infographic that this is meant to be a criticism of people who view respect for the scientific method as uniquely white. This story got some media coverage last year. In at least one of those write-ups, there should be an interview with someone from the Smithsonian to explain that it's meant to be a criticism of people who feel a particular way, rather than an endorsement of a viewpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    I'd say there may be some attempting to redefine racism's meaning to coming from a white source and being applicable to a non-white source only, but traditionally it's meant bigotry based on race. And while I do think that sounds more like systemic racism than racism I wouldn't, for example, see black people as racist if they tend to buy and enjoy iphones despite knowing they were the product of exploited Chinese labor or enjoyed any of a number of benefits of living in a society that exploits resources/labor from less fortunate countries/groups. I also wouldn't say they should get to enjoy their iphone and maintain the moral high ground too.

    If the argument would be, "well I didn't design the system that gives me this benefit and I would vote against it if I had a say" then that argument would apply just as readily to white people who feel the same way. There are degrees of privilege (some of which are again shared by non-whites in this country) and degrees of oppression/exploitation (some of which do fall upon some white folk in this country). Broad generalizations and labeling/pigeonholing people into groups in order to catalogue and at times dismiss them might be comforting and in small bubbles/circles even effective but reality is sadly much more complicated.
    The arguments on how to define racism are rather counterproductive. It seems to come from an effort to control discussion, combined with equivocation, and creates a lot of situations where people talk past one another when discussing sensitive questions. In these kind of discussions, clarity is important, and that's hard when people have very different definitions of something like racism. The same term can be used for progressive white people talking about their own shortcomings, as well as the faults of people who should be shunned by polite society.


    There seems to be an impression that labeling something gives it meaning, and I personally disagree with that. Whether a black man being bigoted against Asian-Americans is called racism or not doesn't suddenly make it right.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  12. #28362
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 GindyPosts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    As I've said elsewhere, the Republican Party has become the Party of Children Refusing to Eat Their Vegetables.
    The party that kept saying "facts before feelings" sure get emotional about doing the most basic of tasks cause "freedom".

  13. #28363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    As I've said elsewhere, the Republican Party has become the Party of Children Refusing to Eat Their Vegetables.
    Well ...



    It is rather on brand.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  14. #28364
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Allen View Post
    That's just it -- I mean, I'm all on board for getting vaccinated, just got my first shot on Friday, despite that I don't have any health issues or reason to think I should be at huge risk, if I did get Covid. I'd still just feel better about everyone's risk in general, if there were not so many people being all anti-vax about it.
    I get my second shot next Tuesday, but I'll continue wearing masks and practice social distancing. You can't be too cautious.

    Quote Originally Posted by mogwen View Post
    https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2021/05/...fied-students/

    Unhinged GOP lawmaker arrested after trying to be a substitute teacher. He terrified the students.
    He allegedly kicked a student's groin, asked teens about their masturbation habits, and ranted about a foster child that he claims attempted suicide because of lesbian parents.

    This is terrifying. This GOP lawmaker should never be let close to young people, because all he loves is kicking them in their private parties.
    If I were the parent of one of those kids, I'd make like Negan and go medieval on that ******* with a barb wire wrapped bat. Under NO circumstances should Samsel EVER be allowed kids ever again.
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  15. #28365
    Mighty Member 4saken1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    "I'd rather be Russian than a Democrat."

    That's another modern GQP slogan that is stupid as Hell.

    That was being sold at a NRA and Trump fundraiser last election.
    I love looking at pics of Republican fundraisers and conventions and trying to find a person of color. It's like playing Where's Waldo.
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