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  1. #2896

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    We don't need to abolish the police. We need to make sure they're training their officers properly and bad actors are held accountable.
    They should be required to go through a more extensive training that goes for a full 4 years, including courses in both ethics, as well as Constitutional law before they're active duty. Focusing on community service and de-escalation would be a plus.

    A doctor requires 8 years of school before we trust them to have a life in their hands. Cops are getting guns and the same with almost no training.
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  2. #2897
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    I'm not sure, but I wonder if some departments are so far gone that it might need to be done in a few cities.

    I want to believe that most of them can be saved by change in mid-level command (NYC might need to fire sergeants en masse), a focus on protecting and serving the public, a ban on any of that 'warrior cop' training, and the removal of most of the military equipment.

    And some accountability - meaning investigations can't be trusted to be handled internally.
    Cousr, the department's which are arguably the most far gone are probably the ones which need police the most.

  3. #2898
    Spectacular Member MacrossPlus's Avatar
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    A lot of people think it’s easy to do, but the truth is, it’s a lot more complicated than that

  4. #2899
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Even though the stress of the presidency physically ages even the healthiest of men, Trump, despite being patently obese and possessing a horrible diet somehow avoided suffering a life threatening incident. Perhaps he made a deal with the Devil for perfect health to spite the world. As for imprisonment, that's what Trump fears most, knowing a court date for his dirty dealings from the Mueller Report is waiting for him right after he leaves office, thus his obsession to be reelected.
    If he wins in November, he will have a go at repealing the 22nd Amendment.
    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    They should be required to go through a more extensive training that goes for a full 4 years, including courses in both ethics, as well as Constitutional law before they're active duty. Focusing on community service and de-escalation would be a plus.

    A doctor requires 8 years of school before we trust them to have a life in their hands. Cops are getting guns and the same with almost no training.
    I doubt a 4-year program is feasible, no matter who you're taxing at what percent. I do agree with you about emphasis on de-escalation and ethics.

    A first step, however, needs to be culling all paramilitary language and imagery from the recruiting and training materials. Self-defense is essential, but paramilitary training needs to go.

    Still, there are cases where a tactical response asset is necessary. I wonder if that is something that could be consolidated at the State Police level, leaving the more frequent (less dramatic) needs at the local level?

  5. #2900
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Mattis tears into Trump: 'We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership': https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/polit...ump/index.html

  6. #2901
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    If he wins in November, he will have a go at repealing the 22nd Amendment
    Oh, I've known that from jump street. Trump, with his bloated ego, will NEVER be more powerful than he is right now, anyone who thinks he'll give up the presidency without a fight is delusional. I've been of the belief Trump has had lawyers working since Inauguration Day on ways to repeal the 22nd, with a compliant Senate and a right leaning SCOTUS, he has the means to pull it off. The only way to stop that from happening is for Democrats to reclaim the Senate in November, that way, even if he wins reelection, Trump won't have support from Congress to follow through on his agenda.
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  7. #2902
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    Oh, I've known that from jump street. Trump, with his bloated ego, will NEVER be more powerful than he is right now, anyone who thinks he'll give up the presidency without a fight is delusional. I've been of the belief Trump has had lawyers working since Inauguration Day on ways to repeal the 22nd, with a compliant Senate and a right leaning SCOTUS, he has the means to pull it off. The only way to stop that from happening is for Democrats to reclaim the Senate in November, that way, even if he wins reelection, Trump won't have support from Congress to follow through on his agenda.
    It's not the 22nd he should be thinking about, it's the 25th and Article II, Section 4. There are more than one way to remove a bad president.
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  8. #2903
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacrossPlus View Post
    What’s everyone’s thoughts on the theory of abolishing the police and replacing it with something else?
    No matter what you replace it with you will still have the same problems if there is no way to vett the cadets. Honestly I like Mayor Lightfoots idea of having, in addition to the police training, civilian training by local leaders of different communities. Police union head seems to hate this idea. The police system needs reform and basically a new structure. Maybe make it where if you attend certain programs on diversity and history and different cultural courses at the local colleges and complete a certificate you can get pay increases. I would also say a set up where at least one or two officers are specially trained in desescilating and cops need to have at least two minority officers with them. For equipment, cameras that can not be shut off, and rubber bullets in lieu of live amo.


    On another note, the following are the vetted list so far of Biden's VP pick.

    Mayor
    @KeishaBottoms


    @RepValDemings


    @AmbassadorRice

    • Sen.
    @KamalaHarris


    @GovWhitmer


    @StaceyAbrams

    • Sen.
    @ewarren

    • Sen.
    @AmyKlobuchar

  9. #2904
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    They should be required to go through a more extensive training that goes for a full 4 years, including courses in both ethics, as well as Constitutional law before they're active duty. Focusing on community service and de-escalation would be a plus.

    A doctor requires 8 years of school before we trust them to have a life in their hands. Cops are getting guns and the same with almost no training.
    All good points.

    A more detailed psych evaluation needs to be included too. Derek Chauvin is quite clearly not mentally sound.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

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  10. #2905
    Invincible Jersey Girl Tami's Avatar
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    Senate Democrats hold a 8:46 moment of silence, in Emancipation Hall of the Capitol. ⁦@CoryBooker led the ceremony, standing next to statue of Frederick Douglas.
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    Last edited by Tami; 06-04-2020 at 11:37 AM.
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  11. #2906
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    No matter what you replace it with you will still have the same problems if there is no way to vett the cadets. Honestly I like Mayor Lightfoots idea of having, in addition to the police training, civilian training by local leaders of different communities. Police union head seems to hate this idea. The police system needs reform and basically a new structure. Maybe make it where if you attend certain programs on diversity and history and different cultural courses at the local colleges and complete a certificate you can get pay increases. I would also say a set up where at least one or two officers are specially trained in desescilating and cops need to have at least two minority officers with them. For equipment, cameras that can not be shut off, and rubber bullets in lieu of live amo.


    On another note, the following are the vetted list so far of Biden's VP pick.

    Mayor
    @KeishaBottoms


    @RepValDemings


    @AmbassadorRice

    • Sen.
    @KamalaHarris


    @GovWhitmer


    @StaceyAbrams

    • Sen.
    @ewarren

    • Sen.
    @AmyKlobuchar
    Course more cameras and more training mean spending more money. I wonder if police departments aren't actually going to have their budgets cut after all of this.

  12. #2907
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    Do you think the other 3 officers would have been charged without rioting?
    Well the thing is what did those 3 actually do? The main one was violating all sorts of policy with that knee.

    Now you can say they did nothing to stop him from doing that. Other than that what else?

    All you will get is another Freddie Gray case. Where they tossed a net on everyone and lost.

    Right now that looks like trying to clam folks down tactic. It will be up to the state to prove what they did wrong.


    What’s everyone’s thoughts on the theory of abolishing the police and replacing it with something else?
    Won't happen. While some of these folks are screaming BLEEP the cops and all that-they are the SAME folks who will call the cops on Pookie or Ray Ray when they commit a crime against them.

    Let the cops stay home for one WEEK in Chiraq or St Louis. Those same criminals many of those communities protect are going to have a FIELD day in that community.

    At most you have to change the recruitment, admissions and everything it takes to make a cop.

    A 4 year police academy could work-if you get those boys and gals right out of high school.

    And you would have to come up with a curriculum.

    One of the things my high school (magnet art school) did Freshman year for us visual artist was this-we got to take 1 six weeks of EVERY course.

    6 weeks of Print Making, Fibers (clothing), painting, ceramics, metal shop and jewelry. The next year we chose 2 (or 1) take a semester.

    For cops you should do the same. Show them each division Freshman year. Major in one or two the next 3 years.

    I would INCLUDE a REQUIREMENT of serving in EVERY community.

    I would suggest before any cop is assigned a community. It is REQUIRED that they meet those in the community and actually be interviews and questioned. If that community does not want you-you go somewhere else.

    My goal-I want a Dan Wilson in a community he feel comfortable and accepted in. I want him to know everybody in that community AND schools.

    And like teachers-you got renew your contract.

  13. #2908

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    If he wins in November, he will have a go at repealing the 22nd Amendment.


    I doubt a 4-year program is feasible, no matter who you're taxing at what percent. I do agree with you about emphasis on de-escalation and ethics.

    A first step, however, needs to be culling all paramilitary language and imagery from the recruiting and training materials. Self-defense is essential, but paramilitary training needs to go.

    Still, there are cases where a tactical response asset is necessary. I wonder if that is something that could be consolidated at the State Police level, leaving the more frequent (less dramatic) needs at the local level?
    That's the tour of duty for our military. That's a college education for any other degree. Don't see as why that's too big of an ask for someone who we're trusting to be arbiters of the law, and be trained to know when and when not to use deadly force.
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  14. #2909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    No matter what you replace it with you will still have the same problems if there is no way to vett the cadets. The police system needs reform and basically a new structure. I would also say a set up where at least one or two officers are specially trained in desescilating and cops need to have at least two minority officers with them. For equipment, cameras that can not be shut off, and rubber bullets in lieu of live amo.
    CORRECT

    Those same laws against discrimination black folks crow about applies to everyone.



    Honestly I like Mayor Lightfoots idea of having, in addition to the police training, civilian training by local leaders of different communities. Police union head seems to hate this idea.
    Police Unions don't like it because it TRAINS the public to know what they can and can't do. Even future criminals.

    Maybe make it where if you attend certain programs on diversity and history and different cultural courses at the local colleges and complete a certificate you can get pay increases.
    Well you can require certain number of hours of training. Teachers have to do this every year. The rest of us don't have to have x number of hours. Although we do have some training that is due by a certain date.

    Some of that training can be done online. We have some online safety classes to due and I was done in an hour. 7 minutes videos and 5 questions.

  15. #2910

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    On this date in 2015, we profiled Jerry Bergevin, a former member of the New Hampshire House of Representatives who advised against teaching evolution in public schools because he believed it led to the rise of Nazi Germany, and was the motivation for the shooters in the Columbine Massacre. Alternately, he has tried making Bible Studies a mandatory course in schools. Bergevin also released one of the country's first "religious freedom" bills back in 2012. Upon the state legislature in New Hampshire voting to legalize medical marijuana, he completely lost his damned mind, and sent out an email decrying that, calling his colleagues "Potheads who legalized the rectum as a sexual organ." Bergevin has been voted out of office for several years now, and we’re fine with that.


    In both 2016, 2017, 2018, and in 2019, that “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” presented profiles of the U.S. House Representative for Pennsylvania’s 3rd Congressional District, Mike Kelly, who was first elected in the Tea Party Wave back in 2010, defeating Rep. Kathy Dahlkemper by double digits with the benefit of GOP turnout that year, and after gerrymandering has turned the Cook Partisan Voter Index for his district from +2 Republican lean, all the way to +8 Republican, he’s now in his fourth term in office. Of course, in 2016, that was likely because nobody even bothered to run against him. Mike Kelly has raised some eyebrows since heading to our nation's capitol, with his first foray into the spotlight coming in August of 2012, when at a press conference, he compared the birth control mandate of the Affordable Care Act to "Pearl Harbor or 9-11." Certainly there was no hyperbole there, comparing the deaths of thousands in a surprise attack to employers having to cover contraceptives women might need to help regulate irregular menstrual cycles. No sir. A year after that blunder, in August of 2013, Rep. Kelly decided to comment on President Obama, explaining that actually, it was that Barack Obama "divides our country on race". Kelly went on to rant about how his "liberty and freedom were under attack" by the Obama administration, offering little explanation of how that was, exactly. But that's far from the worst thing he said about President Obama. He also discussed impeaching him for "dragging America into a Civil War" shortly after winning re-election back in November of 2014, and in a December 2015 interview with Houston conservative talk-show host Sam Malone, Kelly began questioning where Obama was born and who raised him, before ranting about how his remarks "embolden our enemies", and that terrorists could "shoot up a ballet while Obama dithers." His fearmongering about terrorism isn't a one off, as during the massive Ebola Virus outbreak in 2014, Mike Kelly was on Newsmax, calling for a travel ban (that doctors said would only make the outbreak worse) and making the ridiculous assertion that American Jihadis were going to go into Africa to deliberately infect themselves with the lethally terminal disease, and then bring it back to the states and spread it to massive numbers of people. Which is stupid, because people infected with Ebola are pretty easy to spot, and usually unable to move because they're so crippled by their organs liquifying. And to infect other people, they would have to smear blood or feces on people en masse, which is sort of a telltale sign of ill intent. And so in our update in the vein of “Mike Kelly is a deranged Obama-hating conspiracy theorist”, we must note that since President Obama left office, Rep. Kelly has not moved on, and in March of 2017, he told a crowd in his home district that President Obama was staying in the capitol not to just let his daughter Sasha finish high school, but was actually “running a shadow government that is totally gonna upset the new agenda.” Kelly never apologized for this blatant and paranoid lie, and his staffers tried walking it back, to being “frustration that some Obama holdovers within the federal bureaucracy are attempting to upset the Trump agenda”… which for a walk-back, is still pretty inflammatory. Meanwhile, President Obama took the time outside the White House to go kite-surfing with Richard Branson, because that’s exactly how shadow governments operate.

    It was only a few weeks ago that Mike Kelly got humiliated on the floor of the House by Congresswoman Maxine Waters, after he tried claiming that he knew more about discrimination than she did as an African American woman before dropping “MAGA” into his remarks, and trying to skulk out. Waters was having none of that bulls***, and straight up torched him.

    A few days later, Kelly doubled down on his behavior, going on Fox News and uncorking the most outlandish take imaginable. This time he claimed it was Un-American to acknowledge and talk about the existence of racism in the United States, and that he was often prejudiced against because… before he was a Congressman, he was a car salesman. Then, he praised Donald Trump for improving racial unity. No, we’re not making that up, here’s the quote:
    Mike Kelly is living on Bizarro World, it seems.

    Anyway, other than all that insanity, there's the matter of Mike Kelly's partisan, conservative voting record, that includes votes for the 2013 Government Shutdown, votes against raising the debt ceiling (!), two votes to shut down Planned Parenthood and one to shut down National Public radio, votes against disaster relief for victims of Hurricane Sandy, voting against the renewal of the Violence Against Women Act, votes for banning abortion at 20 weeks, and a vote for the SAFE Act, to keep Syrian refugees from fleeing the civil war in that country.
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