All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[numberthirty]

One other thing...

Cable news was all over Liz Cheney when she wound up on a group looking into what happened in January.

Today, we are at the end of a line that her father and George W. set out on.

Odd that none of those cable news outfits really want to talk to her about that today.

[shooshoomanjoe]

Newsflash for you..Joe Biden is President, Commander in Chief of our military. He make the finals decisions. He did. It's a disaster. People who helped us fight will now die. They don't care about your white supremacist obsession.

For nearly a decade, domestic white supremacy terrorism has killed more Americans than Muslim terrorists. Why should the US turn its back on them?

[Spidey5640]

I havnt seen you on the politics thread in awhile. It is a shame Trump is still not president (Which you loudly predicted several times was a lock and going to happen) He would have done a much better job with this I am sure. /s

The whole thing is a mess. I can and do very much fault Biden for not getting people out of there before he pulled troops out. But to be honest the Taliban take over, the government fleeing and army giving up in droves with out a shot being fired. That would have happened no matter who was president. Trump or Biden. And as against Muslim immigration as Trump was no way he would have gotten the people out of there before he pulled out.

Admittedly steered clear of this thread after the election as I didn't see much point in debating anything as with a new President everything would be a hypothetical until he enacted policies and we saw the results. That said, this isn't about Afghanistan policy as I and most of America including Trump, agree we needed to get out. This is about the decision of HOW we got out and the horrible consequences of Biden making a bad decision. If he chose to get the civilians out first, this doesn't happen. If he left our air forces in Bagram until the end, this doesn't happen. It he waited until winter, this doesn't happen, regardless of what the Afghanistan government or military does or doesn't do. Instead it's a complete disaster and a human tragedy for people.who fought alongside us.

[babyblob]

Admittedly steered clear of this thread after the election as I didn't see much point in debating anything as with a new President everything would be a hypothetical until he enacted policies and we saw the results. That said, this isn't about Afghanistan policy as I and most of America including Trump, agree we needed to get out. This is about the decision of HOW we got out and the horrible consequences of Biden making a bad decision. If he chose to get the civilians out first, this doesn't happen. If he left our air forces in Bagram until the end, this doesn't happen. It he waited until winter, this doesn't happen, regardless of what the Afghanistan government or military does or doesn't do. Instead it's a complete disaster and a human tragedy for people.who fought alongside us.

Biden did make a bad decision not getting the people who helped the army out. As for waiting for winter. he didnt do it and Trump would not have done it. That is not a what if. his deadline was May. So Taliban would still be in control right now. And I do ask this. How many people did Trump get out of Afghanistan since he announced the with draw? Did he care enough to get the people who helped us out in all the months since he said he was pulling out?

[The Cool Thatguy]

Biden did make a bad decision not getting the people who helped the army out. As for waiting for winter. he didnt do it and Trump would not have done it. That is not a what if. his deadline was May. So Taliban would still be in control right now. And I do ask this. How many people did Trump get out of Afghanistan since he announced the with draw? Did he care enough to get the people who helped us out in all the months since he said he was pulling out?

Trump screwed the Kurds, who were largely self reliant.

There's no one he wouldn't screw over to save himself two minute's time.

[Kirby101]

Admittedly steered clear of this thread after the election as I didn't see much point in debating anything as with a new President everything would be a hypothetical until he enacted policies and we saw the results. That said, this isn't about Afghanistan policy as I and most of America including Trump, agree we needed to get out. This is about the decision of HOW we got out and the horrible consequences of Biden making a bad decision. If he chose to get the civilians out first, this doesn't happen. If he left our air forces in Bagram until the end, this doesn't happen. It he waited until winter, this doesn't happen, regardless of what the Afghanistan government or military does or doesn't do. Instead it's a complete disaster and a human tragedy for people.who fought alongside us.

So you also agree Trump's deal with the Taliban that got 5,000 fighters released and their leader released from Pakistan, for which they immediately reneged on their promises, was equally a failure. Yes?

[shooshoomanjoe]

So you also agree Trump's deal with the Taliban that got 5,000 fighters released and their leader released from Pakistan, for which they immediately reneged on their promises, was equally a failure. Yes?

Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, who is going to be Afghanistan's new president.

[PwrdOn]

Admittedly steered clear of this thread after the election as I didn't see much point in debating anything as with a new President everything would be a hypothetical until he enacted policies and we saw the results. That said, this isn't about Afghanistan policy as I and most of America including Trump, agree we needed to get out. This is about the decision of HOW we got out and the horrible consequences of Biden making a bad decision. If he chose to get the civilians out first, this doesn't happen. If he left our air forces in Bagram until the end, this doesn't happen. It he waited until winter, this doesn't happen, regardless of what the Afghanistan government or military does or doesn't do. Instead it's a complete disaster and a human tragedy for people.who fought alongside us.

There was never any chance that we would be willing to accept ALL of the Afghans who aided our military into the US, so whenever we began evacuating our embassy there would be a mad scramble of locals trying to secure themselves a spot by any means necessary, and so there would have been ugly and chaotic scenes no matter what kind of timetable we set.

More importantly, the conversation about Afghanistan needs to stop fixating on the optics of the situation and focus more on the bigger picture of WHY we keep losing these wars and what lessons our military and foreign policy establishment need to learn so they don't blunder into another one of these conflicts and end up with the same outcome. The way that the entire War on Terror played out shows that our high command learned NOTHING from Vietnam, and the fact that we're hearing the same post-Saigon talking points being trotted out once again is a pretty distressing sign that the military will soon be looking for another fight to try and redeem its honor after this latest defeat and will likely fall flat on its face yet again. And the absolute LAST thing anybody should be doing is trying to make partisan recriminations about who is at fault here, the rest of the world is watching and absolutely will find ways to exploit these divisions to serve their own aims.

[AnakinFlair]

To be honest party loyalty and pressure from family and friends mostly. I mean I ddint like Clinton at all. And I really bought into the Fox news hype and fake news. I was raised on it. I was questioning a few things about the GOP. Oddly it was my time in prison that I started to. But then took a step back because there was a really manipulative lying Dem Clinton supporter that worked in the half way house who was very shady on politics and how she handled her job based on your political beliefs. Then When I got my own place and started to do my own research and question things on my own I really started to see a lot of what I didnt like about the GOp and they way family and friends handled it was also a wake up call. I dont agree with the Dems on everything but I really hate what the GOP is I would say what has become but a lot of things they are now they have been for many years. Trump and his cult just brought it to the surface.

Edit - I vote4ed for Trump in 2016 but Biden in 2020.

Thank you for sharing.

I voted for Hillary in 2016, but that was more a vote against Trump than a vote for Hillary.

[Malvolio]

One other thing...

Cable news was all over Liz Cheney when she wound up on a group looking into what happened in January.

Today, we are at the end of a line that her father and George W. set out on.

Odd that none of those cable news outfits really want to talk to her about that today.

[Mister Mets]

I don't see you willing to criticize white nationalists yet, with all the words you've posted today. You're spending more on claiming that it's "insulting" to be asked to provide criticism of the white nationalists in your party. (On brand, Trump has done that since 2015.) That might taint everyone's impression of you, as you doth protest this too much, and again, avoid that simple exit ramp to the high road.

It's uh... right there, Mets. Any time now...

I have criticized white nationalists. Hell, earlier today I said they were a justly reviled group.

I haven't responded to the question of whether it's insulting to be asked to provide criticism of white nationalists. I think some of your earlier posts were insulting, but it's not because you asked me to criticize white nationalists. You specifically said you were calling me out, and that I was defending white nationalists, which is a different goalpost than being asked to criticize them.

You suggested that I'm gaslighting everyone (which is insulting if untrue) and that I've given vehement defenses of Matt Gaetz and Stephen Miller.

I posted the links on that, so that anyone else reading this can determine if they think what I said is so outrageously wrong that it merits being called out months and years later.

I maintain that what I said is reasonable. This leads to three possibilities.

1. I could be wrong. I'll leave it to someone else to make the argument that it is obvious that Stephen Miller orchestrated a Nazi dog whistle on a DHS press release, and that what I said about Matt Gaetz is outrageously supportive.

2. I'm right and you don't recognize it. That would suggest that I can't take what you said seriously, given how extreme your reaction is to relatively innocuous comments.

3. I'm right and you have realized that your response doesn't fit what I've said on the board.

Taking the high road should not require my silence about someone being wrong. This is an obvious factual question that should be resolved.

[Spidey5640]

Biden did make a bad decision not getting the people who helped the army out. As for waiting for winter. he didnt do it and Trump would not have done it. That is not a what if. his deadline was May. So Taliban would still be in control right now. And I do ask this. How many people did Trump get out of Afghanistan since he announced the with draw? Did he care enough to get the people who helped us out in all the months since he said he was pulling out?

Respectfully, this is exactly a "what if?" You don't know what Trump would have done and neither do I. We do know EXACTLY what Biden did, which is catastrophic. Hypotheticals are a waste of time...

[Spidey5640]

So you also agree Trump's deal with the Taliban that got 5,000 fighters released and their leader released from Pakistan, for which they immediately reneged on their promises, was equally a failure. Yes?

I agree that deflecting to Trump while people die in Afghanistan as a result of an incredibly poor decision by Biden, reportedly against the advice of his military command, is very very sad. not unexpected, but still very sad...

[green_garnish]

Respectfully, this is exactly a "what if?" You don't know what Trump would have done and neither do I. We do know EXACTLY what Biden did, which is catastrophic. Hypotheticals are a waste of time...

I would hope we all understand that Trump would have done whatever he thinks is in his own best interests, without a thought for the country's best interests, regardless of any other considerations.

[Spidey5640]

There was never any chance that we would be willing to accept ALL of the Afghans who aided our military into the US, so whenever we began evacuating our embassy there would be a mad scramble of locals trying to secure themselves a spot by any means necessary, and so there would have been ugly and chaotic scenes no matter what kind of timetable we set.

More importantly, the conversation about Afghanistan needs to stop fixating on the optics of the situation and focus more on the bigger picture of WHY we keep losing these wars and what lessons our military and foreign policy establishment need to learn so they don't blunder into another one of these conflicts and end up with the same outcome. The way that the entire War on Terror played out shows that our high command learned NOTHING from Vietnam, and the fact that we're hearing the same post-Saigon talking points being trotted out once again is a pretty distressing sign that the military will soon be looking for another fight to try and redeem its honor after this latest defeat and will likely fall flat on its face yet again. And the absolute LAST thing anybody should be doing is trying to make partisan recriminations about who is at fault here, the rest of the world is watching and absolutely will find ways to exploit these divisions to serve their own aims.

The fact that we could never save or assist ALL of those who helped us shouldn't be an excuse for why Biden chose the path that led to us helping so few of them....Biden isn't at fault for us getting into Afghanistan, but is responsible for how we got out...badly and at the unnecessary cost of life.