All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Tami]

So Florida is actually going to go through with punishing the schools that are requiring masks. You'd think at least one person would be able to look the Governor in the eye and say, "Sir, even aside from it being a questionable move to demand them to be maskless...have you thought about the optics of it? You're punishing them for doing what they think is right for their children."

On top of that, isn't the Republican party the part of small government and personal freedom? Doesn't stepping in and countermanding a local elected body's decision fly in the face of both of those ideals?

The Republican Party of 2021 isn't the Republican Party of 1961. This is the same party that never bothered to write a political platform for the last election.

The Republican Party of 2021 is the 'Do Nothing except Screw Everyone' Party. They waste their time going to war with the very people who are supposed to be their voter base. Instead of trying to govern responsibly, trying to make their constituent's lives better, people like DeSantis are trying to make their Big Donor Base happy.

As long as they are raking in the money, that is all they care about.

[shooshoomanjoe]

IMO, today's GOP resembles the fascist EU parties of the 1930s-1940s.

[Mister Mets]

We're not disputing whether or not it's your view, Mets. We're saying the entire argument is bullshit. And if you present said argument without commenting how you feel about it, you can't be surprised that we assume you agree with the argument.

I understand the miscommunication.

I was responding to a point on whether it's possible to defend him. I really don't know enough about it to assess the defense.

Let me go ahead and answer you as best I can Mets. not sure I will be great at what I want to say but I will try. And yes this is an informative and respectful talk.

Point 1 - I would have them show their Vaccine card I would want to see an id to make sure it is them.

Point 2 - I do worry about passing Covid to people with a vaccine. I am not as worried about it because the illness is less severe in people with the vaccine. I do wonder what the long term effects if any there are for people who have had Covid vaccine or no.

Point 3 - I am not so much worried about passing it to people who chose not to get the vaccine. I mean it sucks they are sick and I feel bad about it. But they can greatly lessen the chance and choose not to. So that is on them if they get sick not on me.

Point 4 - Kids who cant get the vaccine I have to be honest I have no clue what to say or do about that. I know the chances of them getting covid is less (I could be wrong but that is what I have heard) This is a subject I have to do more research on. I dont have kids myself so I never gave it too much thought to be honest.

Point 5 - I dont know if my one store would make a difference. But the thought of I am one person, I am one store and cant make a difference is used too much as a way for people to do nothing. So even if no other stores in my area do what I am doing I can at least sleep and know I am doing my part.

Now as for choice I think a person does have the choice to mandate or not mandate. If there is a mandate from the government be it local or state or federal then it needs to be followed. Or if a school systems mandates it it needs to followed. But if there is no mandate then it is up to the business or person to decide it. I am not happy about a person who does not get a vaccine or wear a mask but that is on them. They are making the problem worse but there is nothing I can do about it as I as a person to make them change. But if it is mandated which I think it should be it needs to be followed.

And it is damn awful and it makes me so mad when I see out elected leaders downplay the threat, and disregard and stand in the way of people who are trying to help stop the flow. It is the worst thing a leader can do because they are doing it to score political points over the value of people's lives. A governor does not want to do a mandate. Fine but if a local school system who is more in tune to the local community and has no doubt looked at local health numbers from the health department wants to mandate that he damn sure should not stand in their way.

Thanks.

I get the argument that it should be down to local districts. There's probably also an argument that either local or state government should be able to insist on a mandate.

One complicating question is who's right about the requirements.

David Zweig of New York magazine looked at the science of mask requirements in schools, and it's inconclusive at best.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021...uncertain.html

The most in-depth study comparing different mitigation strategies in schools saw no difference between schools with mask mandates and schools without.

The study published by the CDC was both ambitious and groundbreaking. It covered more than 90,000 elementary-school students in 169 Georgia schools from November 16 to December 11 and was, according to the CDC, the first of its kind to compare COVID-19 incidence in schools with certain mitigation measures in place to other schools without those measures.

Europe doesn't have mask mandates in schools, and there's no evidence that this has contributed to outbreaks.

Many of America’s peer nations around the world — including the U.K., Ireland, all of Scandinavia, France, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Italy — have exempted kids, with varying age cutoffs, from wearing masks in classrooms. Conspicuously, there’s no evidence of more outbreaks in schools in those countries relative to schools in the U.S., where the solid majority of kids wore masks for an entire academic year and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. These countries, along with the World Health Organization, whose child-masking guidance differs substantially from the CDC’s recommendations, have explicitly recognized that the decision to mask students carries with it potential academic and social harms for children and may lack a clear benefit. To date, the highly transmissible Delta variant has not led them to change this calculus. (Many experts I spoke with told me that while the Delta variant represents a major and concerning new development in the Covid pandemic, it probably shouldn’t change our thinking on a mask requirement for schools.)

One problem is that cloth masks don't provide significant protection over extended periods of time, and it would be a stretch to expect kids to wear N-95 masks.

A list of public-health notables, including Michael Osterholm, an epidemiologist and former COVID-19 adviser to Joe Biden, and Scott Gottlieb, the former commissioner of the FDA, have publicly noted the limited effectiveness of cloth masks. Celine Gounder, an infectious-disease epidemiologist at NYU, who also advised Biden’s transition team on COVID-19 policy, recently tweeted a chart that showed when cloth masks are worn by both the source and receiver they provide just an estimated 27 minutes of protection from an infectious dose of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Higher-grade N95s, or KN95s, the Chinese equivalent, offer more protection, but are also much harder to tolerate over extended periods of time. Three physicians I talked with considered the idea of children wearing them all day at school — suggested recently by an aerosol scientist in the Times — “laughable,” “cruel,” and “unrealistic, because most adults can barely handle an N95 for even short durations,” since they are so uncomfortable.

A further issue is that there are costs to kids to having mask mandates.

"Mask-wearing among children is generally considered a low-risk mitigation strategy; however, the negatives are not zero, especially for young children,” said Lloyd Fisher, the president of the Massachusetts chapter of the American Academy of Pediatrics. “It is important for children to see facial expressions of their peers and the adults around them in order to learn social cues and understand how to read emotions.” Some children with special needs, for example those with articulation delays, may be most affected, he suggested. Fisher stressed his opinions are not to be perceived as contradicting AAP’s stance for universal masking of students but said he wanted to discuss some of the potential harms and the importance of using evidence and data to drive decisions on when to eliminate mask usage.

“There are very good reasons that the World Health Organization has repeatedly affirmed their guidance for children under 6 to not wear masks,” said a pediatrician who has both state and national leadership roles in the AAP but who wished to remain anonymous because they did not want to jeopardize their roles in the organization. “Reading faces is critical for social emotional learning. And all children are actively learning language the first five years of life, for which seeing faces is foundational,” the pediatrician said.

Matt Shapiro, a data visualization writer, looks at the data in more depth, and is more pissed off about mask requirements in schools.

https://polimath.substack.com/p/the-...Published=true

His main arguments are that there isn't a clear standard about when mask requirements in schools should end, the risk to children of Covid transmission is low, there's limited evidence to support the idea that this specific policy reduces Covid spread, and most European students don't wear masks in school.

This gets to a question of what to do if a Governor follows the science, and concludes some parents are too worried.

[Tendrin]

Meanwhile, in reality, my dad's caregiver was infected by her children with the delta variant and brought Covid 19 in the house of my parents. No one gets to spreadsheet their way into telling me that the case for masks on children isn't 'clear', nor that 'transmission in children' risk is low.

Fortunately, we were all vaccinated and despite the close proximity and the higher risk of infection from the delta variant, we've all tested negative are10-12 days since infection would have been possible so it seems my elderly parents are in the clear.

Masks on kids, for their safety and the safety of the families they go home to.

[AnakinFlair]

Meanwhile, in reality, my dad's caregiver was infected by her children with the delta variant and brought Covid 19 in the house of my parents. No one gets to spreadsheet their way into telling me that the case for masks on children isn't 'clear', nor that 'transmission in children' risk is low.

Fortunately, we were all vaccinated and despite the close proximity and the higher risk of infection from the delta variant, we've all tested negative are10-12 days since infection would have been possible so it seems my elderly parents are in the clear.

Masks on kids, for their safety and the safety of the families they go home to.

I'm glad your parents are ok.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Meanwhile, in reality, my dad's caregiver was infected by her children with the delta variant and brought Covid 19 in the house of my parents. No one gets to spreadsheet their way into telling me that the case for masks on children isn't 'clear', nor that 'transmission in children' risk is low.

Fortunately, we were all vaccinated and despite the close proximity and the higher risk of infection from the delta variant, we've all tested negative are10-12 days since infection would have been possible so it seems my elderly parents are in the clear.

Masks on kids, for their safety and the safety of the families they go home to.

Plus, basic math should tell you that the sooner we all take these precautions, the sooner we can do away with them.

[kidfresh512]

Plus, basic math should tell you that the sooner we all take these precautions, the sooner we can do away with them.

The other thing is it doesnt hurt anything so why go through all the trouble and vitriol and fights and passing laws and lawsuits JUST to deny wearing a mask? Anti masking is strictly political and its a dumb, dangerous hill to plant a flag on. No one WANTS to wear a mask or social distance. The sooner we do the basic **** and get vaccinated the better we all are for limiting variants and cutting down on all the preventative steps in place for the pandemic.

[Jeremi]

Plus, basic math should tell you that the sooner we all take these precautions, the sooner we can do away with them.

And if someone wants some data on the subject.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...chers-covid-19

A careful analysis of health data from Sweden suggests keeping schools open with only minimal precautions in the spring roughly doubled teachers’ risk of being diagnosed with the pandemic coronavirus. Their partners faced a 29% higher risk of becoming infected than partners of teachers who shifted to teaching online. Parents of children in school were 17% more likely to be diagnosed with COVID-19 than those whose children were in remote learning.

Like...it's not rocket science. I see all these lamentations and the good ol' "won't someone please think of the children?!" but man, you'd have to wonder what trauma they could get by accidentally giving their grandparents COVID.

[Mister Mets]

Meanwhile, in reality, my dad's caregiver was infected by her children with the delta variant and brought Covid 19 in the house of my parents. No one gets to spreadsheet their way into telling me that the case for masks on children isn't 'clear', nor that 'transmission in children' risk is low.

Fortunately, we were all vaccinated and despite the close proximity and the higher risk of infection from the delta variant, we've all tested negative are10-12 days since infection would have been possible so it seems my elderly parents are in the clear.

Masks on kids, for their safety and the safety of the families they go home to.

Most importantly, I'm glad your parents are okay. What reason do you have to believe that their caregiver caught Covid because her kids were allowed to go to school unmasked?

As for the spreadsheet comment, if you believe we should follow the science them we should follow it wherever it leads. The problem with using anecdotal evidence is that people in the wrong side of issues are going to do the same thing. For example, it's the basis for many of the arguments against vaccination, or for Trump for that matter.

[skyvolt2000]

Europe doesn't have mask mandates in schools, and there's no evidence that this has contributed to outbreaks.

One problem is that cloth masks don't provide significant protection over extended periods of time, and it would be a stretch to expect kids to wear N-95 masks.

If Europe is doing fine-what are they doing that we are not?

As for N-95-let the schools provide them. If having to wear them for a long time is the issue-have kids attend school from say August to November-the week of Thanksgiving.

From that wee till President's Day-kids stay HOME and online learn. Teachers can teach from school online. Staff who don't need to be there all day can spilt days when they go.

President's Day to Spring Break in school. Spring Break to Good Friday at home. Good Friday till the end at school (mainly due to state testing).

Unless we say no masks for kids.

My School district has been fully open a week. We got 505 infections-mainly STAFF at Elementary schools.

Going by zip codes-it's mainly neighborhoods of white, Hispanic and people from overseas (mainly Africa & Middle East). Despite Dan Patrick black areas are not that bad as of now.

Irving ISD has only 54.

Garland ISD has 800 (only now in week 3)

Grand Prairie ISD (with NO Mask mandate) 181

[worstblogever]

death cult, etc.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...?ocid=msedgntp




I haven't checked to see if either of these people are in WBE's queue, but if they weren't before, they probably are now :P

Johansen was. Heidi Sampson was not.

[numberthirty]

Most importantly, I'm glad your parents are okay. What reason do you have to believe that their caregiver caught Covid because her kids were allowed to go to school unmasked?

As for the spreadsheet comment, if you believe we should follow the science them we should follow it wherever it leads. The problem with using anecdotal evidence is that people in the wrong side of issues are going to do the same thing. For example, it's the basis for many of the arguments against vaccination, or for Trump for that matter.

The state of Texas is not anecdotal evidence.

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/a...ecord-numbers/

As Texas Schools Reopen, Kids With COVID-19 Are Filling Hospitals In Record Numbers

The number of pediatric COVID-19 patients in Texas hospitals is higher now than at any point during the pandemic, according to state health data.

As of Thursday, hospitals across the state were reporting 235 pediatric patients confirmed with COVID-19, the Texas Department of State Health Services confirmed.

On Dec. 24, the previous peak, that number was 163. Before that, the peak was 153 on Aug. 10. 2020. The numbers do not specify how many of that total were in intensive care unit beds.

The number of kids in Texas hospitals is especially concerning to health leaders as schools begin to reopen. As of Friday morning, Houston ISD — the state's largest school district — reported 118 total active COVID-19 cases, 43 of which are among students. Sixty-two percent of confirmed cases are in elementary school buildings.

[numberthirty]

If that is what is happening as schools are reopening, what sort of crackpot logic dictates that the pattern taking place there will just magically disappear once children are in school?

[worstblogever]

On this date in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, as well as 2018, "Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day" published profiles of the Georgia Governor Nathan Deal, a man so inept that he couldn’t handle two inches of snow without declaring it a state of emergency, a man so corrupt he’s been under ethics investigations for half a decade, and a man so bigoted that he appointed a former spokesman for an anti-immigrant hate group to a state immigration board, wants the 14th Amendment repealed, tried to block Syrian refugees from coming to his state, wrote the White House to demand a copy of Barack Obama’s birth certificate, and made it a point to justify why Georgia should have Confederate-themed license plates. Oh, and Deal was forced to apologize after he referred to African Americans as “colored people” in November of 2016. Mercifully, Nathan Deal left office in early 2019, and has yet to run for any other office.

On this date in 2019, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” profiled Jim Renacci, who served four terms in the U.S. House of Representatives for Ohio’s 16th Congressional District, first arriving in the Tea Party Wave in 2010. He was the tenth wealthiest member of Congress at the time, and that had a lot to do with his acquisition of a car dealership in 2007 by buying it off a guy about to go to prison for apparently laundering drug money. Renacci won re-election three times after the GOP gerrymandered the Congressional map, and then after a brief flirtation with running for Governor of Ohio to replace John Kasich, opting for an ill-fated attempt at getting elected to U.S. Senate in the 2018 Blue Wave year, thinking he could knock off Demoratic Senator Sherrod Brown. Late in that last campaign, as Renacci was trailing by double-digits, he and Ohio Republicans led a misinformation campaign to accuse Sherrod Brown of committing sexual harassment against supposedly multiple three decades prior. Bizarrely, while they deemed Christine Blasey Ford’s accusations against Brett Kavanaugh as “not credible”, with all her ability to show she had been attacked and said as much years prior to going public to her therapist and others… Brown’s accuser never came forward publicly, who had no one to corroborate her, at all, as “credible”. Effectively, Renacci said, “I heard from a woman that said…” and never produced that woman.He might have well have been touting an imaginary girlfriend from Canada. Instead, he also decided to accuse Sherrod Brown of also committing domestic abuse back in 1986, again, without any evidence. Other than being a scumbag of a campaigner, we’ll also note that Renacci actually had the balls to defend Donald Trump’s comments about “s***hole countries” in 2018. His voting record included multiple attempts to repeal the Affordable Care Act, twice voting to defund Planned Parenthood, voting against Disaster Relief Funding for victims of Hurricane Sandy, but for the 2013 Government Shutdown,voting for Trumpcare and the GOP Tax Plan/Scam in 2017, and voted to strip protections from the Americans with Disabilities Act. We personally hope he never runs for office again, and just goes back to being a shady car salesman.

[worstblogever]

On this date one year ago, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” first profiled the sitting U.S. House Representative from Missouri’s 8th District, Jason Smith, who was first elected to Congress back in 2012 after serving eight years as a member of the Missouri House of Representatives. Our interest in profiling Rep. Smith began as far back as 2016, when during a sit-in led by the legendary Congressman John Lewis where Democrats sat on the House floor because Republicans were stubborn enough on gun laws to hold up legislation that would have prevented those on the terror watch list from buying guns. Smith deemed that “ridiculous”, and claiming they were “politicizing a very horrible tragedy” in the Pulse massacre to stage their protest.

It was in early 2019, though, once his party became the minority in the House that we really saw who Jason Smith is. Our country was weeks into the longest government shutdown in its history, engineered by Smith and the GOP. And as House Democrats began working to undo the mess Smith deliberately created, he screamed, “Go back to Puerto Rico!” at California Congressman Tony Cardenas. Smith’s Chief of Staff claimed the comment was directed at Democrats who were “vacationing in Puerto Rico” the prior week, when the reality is, they were there still assessing the island’s recovery almost two years after Hurricane Maria struck and the Trump administration’s lack of a response.

By the end of that year, Smith was criticizing Democrats’ attempts to impeach Donald Trump for soliciting Ukraine to interfere in the 2020 election, calling it a “circus”:

”I continue to stand with President Trump and defend him against these outrageous attacks from the liberal mob majority that consistently puts politics before people. This impeachment circus should have never been started; it has been a complete disgrace to our country and has caused complete chaos in government. I look forward to seeing the President acquitted on both charges by the United States Senate in a timely manner so we can get back to addressing the issues that face the American people.”

If the above quote wasn’t a clear indicator that Jason Smith is completely in the tank for Donald Trump, in spite of his rampant corruption and incompetence, in March of 2020, as Trump was ignoring the threat of Covid-19 as it began spreading throughout the United States, Smith lectured Democrats that Trump “deserved more praise” because of what Trump was doing to protect American farmers from China (when Trump’s policies were sending more farmers into bankruptcy and there was a statistical rise in farmer suicides).

"China has exploited our farmers and workers again and again and again. Decades have gone by with no change. And now, when President Trump decides to fight back? Just bickering and politics from Democrats. Disgraceful."

If only it were that he had developed into a partisan cheap-shot artist, and not that he also voted against the interests of the American people as a legislator:

• December 18th, 2019: Smith ignores his Congressional duty to hold a president who has been proven to commit high crimes and misdemeanors accountable and votes against the impeachment of Donald Trump.
• May 15th, 2020: Smith votes against the HEROES Act, to further support the healthcare industry and citizens affected by the Covid-19 pandemic.
• December 10th, 2020: Smith signs his name to an amicus brief to the Supreme Court, begging them to overturn the results of the 2020 election. The same election that he won re-election in.
• January 6th, 2021: Jason Smith votes for the objection to the electoral college’s votes in the 2020 election, a failure to send any sort of message that he wasn’t intimidated or sympathetic to those who attacked the Capitol to attempt a violent coup.
• January 13th, 2021: Rep. Smith votes against the second impeachment of Donald Trump, because the Republican Party no longer feels like they should be accountable for anything, including failed coups that result in the deaths of both their participants and police officers.
• February 4th, 2021: Jason Smith votes to keep Marjorie Taylor Greene’s committee assignments, because he wouldn’t want her to be accountable for all the bigoted reDons and conspiracy theories she’s spread online (probably because she’s a kindred spirit).
• February 25th, 2021: Smith votes against HR 5, the latest version of the Equality Act, that would provide workplace protections for LGBTQ Americans.
• March 3rd, 2021: Rep. Smith votes against HR 1, a bill created to prevent the corruption of money in politics, and protect voter access to the ballot box.
• March 3rd, 2021: Jason Smith votes against the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act of 2021.
• March 10th, 2021: Smith votes against the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021, because he feels people deserve to die in poverty during a pandemic.
• March 17th, 2021: Rep. Smith votes against the re-authorization of the Violence Against Women Act, likely because they feel the 2nd Amendment remaining absolute is more important than preventing people with a history of domestic abuse from owning a firearm (which statistics show, makes them more likely to use those firearms against women in their lives).
• May 19th, 2021: Jason Smith votes against HR 3233, the creation of a commission to investigate the Capitol Attack.

Jason Smith won re-election in 2020 with 77% of the vote, and is currently indicating he doesn’t understand how the debt ceiling works on social media, or that failing to raise it would cripple not just the American economy, but the global economy. He’s either rock stupid, or the sort of legislative nihilist that makes him easily identifiable as a modern Republican.