All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[thwhtGuardian]

I work for one of the largest school districts in Texas.

We are considered a migrant school district meaning our kids move around WAYYY too much.

Not one school has been closed.

We have 1549 cases with the MOST 126 in one zip code. 75216-a majority black school district.

That zip code is HOME to Barack Obama Boys school-that gets kids from all over the district. How many cases do they have? 1. 2 for the year.
Booker T Washington that gets kids from all over Dallas/Fort Worth/Plano and other areas. 1 case. They have had 5 all year long.
City Lab NONE and they are NEXT to the MAIN homeless shelter for Dallas.
Townview (4 schools in ONE and among the best school in the nation) 15 in all.

We have 14 schools that get EVERYONE from ANYWHERE and Skyline has the most at 55. A school with 6000 students that borders Mesquite. Texas.


So enforcing masks is working for us with 150K+ kids.

But it's totally not the masks don't you see? ::eye rolls::

[Malvolio]

There is more evidence on the effectiveness of seatbelt laws than on mask mandates in schools.

Of course there is! Seatbelt laws have been in existence a lot longer than mask mandates! What are you going to argue next, that laws regarding landline telephones have more evidence for their effectiveness than laws regarding cell phones?

[worstblogever]

You went after me for this a few weeks ago. You seemed to be upset at something I had said a few years ago in response to a poster expressing the belief that Stephen Miller ordered the Department of Homeland Security to use Nazi dog whistles in a press release.

I tend to not tolerate someone who defends a five alarm racist/white nationalist. Especially unapologetically, months after the fact, in a continued refusal to back off of it. Like, y'know, this whole "the lady doth protest too much" take you have on it, rather than just abandoning it, in which case, I think it would have been easier to move on if you weren't so dedicated to Miller, like you owed him money or fealty for some reason. Or, you might like what he has to say, which is far more troubling.

As I wrote recently, there are two possibilities here. One is that Stephen Miller did insist on Nazi dog whistles in a Department of Homeland Security press release. The other is that a Jewish man is wrongly accused of Nazi dog whistles.

I still believe that the second possibility is much more likely.

Ah, this would be the part where there's a moment to look at Occam's Razor, and the person chooses to cut themselves with it.

I certainly don't think that this is such an outrageously wrong political opinion that it should be brought up years later, but I am willing to have this used as a proxy about which of us is more correct politically.

You are 100% wrong here. White nationalism, or any defense of it, should always be brought up as a character failing. Like you repeatedly are doing on this subject.

The healthy approach is to reject it. Not to refuse to recognize it, and insist that those adhering and enacting it aren't what they are.

I do recommend getting a second opinion, and showing my posts to other people to ask if they agree that it's so obviously wrong that it taints anything that I've got to say months or years later.

Multiple posters have literally PM'ed me about your defense of Miller, and how perplexed they are by it. I'll do them the courtesy of not naming names, as to why the first letter in "PM" is "private". Not for nothing, but some fear you are trending in the direction of embracing fascism. No hyperbole.

That's the second opinion.

You called me out for earlier posts about Gaetz and Miller. I posted links, quotations and explanations, so that anyone else reading this can determine which of us was more reasonable.

You're also admitting you've defended a white nationalist Congressman who is currently implicated in sex trafficking of a minor. Nice collection of folks you stick up for, truly.

If I was outrageously wrong in my posts, it could make sense for you to insult me and bring up the comments some time later.

You have this perplexing tendency to view being held accountable for the things you say, or reprehensible people you've posted defenses of as "insults". Which while regrettably is on-brand for the last admitted Republican on this forum, does not fit the definition of what an insult is.

Again, I offer the alternative... it's a simple choice called, "Stop defending white nationalists and racists".

If it's anything short of that, your response is unmerited. If anyone thinks I was right on the facts, it should taint their impression of you, because you're in the wrong and insulting someone. Everything else you have to say (and I certainly disagree with much of that) is worthless if you were criticizing someone who was in the right.

Y'know, I don't recall ever getting a PM about being unfair to you on this topic. Or seeing anyone tell me I am. You might want to consider that the shoe in question fits, and it's rather sad to see someone dig in to defend a white nationalist this vehemently.

You suggested that I'm gaslighting everyone (which is insulting if untrue) and that I've given vehement defenses of Matt Gaetz and Stephen Miller.

Because forming so lengthy a post on this subject is, if nothing else, a vehement defense of them.

As far as saying you're gaslighting us, you have repeatedly been posting more and more alternate reality versions of what's happening in politics. Just for example, the other day, claiming your party rejects racism as it has been circling ranks to defend it and do nothing to eject racists from within it is, y'know, all of that. I gave the simple counter to point out a literal Congressional vote where they rallied around bluntly racist remarks made by Donald Trump.

I will not surrender to a false narrative.

So if you don't want to be accused of "gaslighting", you can start posting more of the truth.

I posted the links on that, so that anyone else reading this can determine if they think what I said is so outrageously wrong that it merits being called out months and years later.

I maintain that what I said is reasonable. This leads to three possibilities.

1. I could be wrong. I'll leave it to someone else to make the argument that it is obvious that Stephen Miller orchestrated a Nazi dog whistle on a DHS press release, and that what I said about Matt Gaetz is outrageously supportive.

You're definitely wrong.

2. I'm right and you don't recognize it. That would suggest that I can't take what you said seriously, given how extreme your reaction is to relatively innocuous comments.

With certainty, I can say you're not on this subject.

3. I'm right and you have realized that your response doesn't fit what I've said on the board.

With certainty, you're not.


Again, I will suggest a far healthier approach to this...

Stop defending people like Matt Gaetz and Stephen Miller for doing the worst things, saying the worst things, and trying to bring about the cruelest policies they can imagine. Because when you do, they only redouble their efforts, rather than change for the better. The alternative being, of course, to embrace those negative things, and change oneself for the worse.

Mets, I have over the course of many months, appealed to you to abandon the worst impulses of what the GOP has become. Every time, you have rejected the suggestion, and only gone farther down a troubling path with them. This should not be a difficult choice. Again, I can only ask for you to do the bare minimum of decency, and just stop defending white nationalists like Miller and Gaetz.

[worstblogever]

My view on masks was that mask mandates in schools do not seem to be worthwhile. Adult masking policies are a different question.

They aren't. We are all human beings. The science behind masks applies the same way to adults, as they do children. It's why they ask people to wear masks while visiting sick kids with cancer who are immunocompromised.

It would be helpful to stopping the pandemic if you would stop spreading misinformation, and let actual public health experts weigh in on this, or at the very least, people with a background in medicine.

That said, I'm open to accepting new evidence and welcome anyone to post articles or sources about the benefits of mask mandates in schools.

Then hopefully linking to the CDC's guidelines would get you to drop this.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html
I hope we're that lucky.

There is more evidence on the effectiveness of seatbelt laws than on mask mandates in schools.

There might be, but the amount of evidence being greater (if your estimation is correct) does not invalidate ALL the medical evidence. That's not how it works.

In addition if the goalpost is that I'm wrong if mask mandates in schools are the only reason for Covid spread, I will point out the goalpost if anyone calls me out for a point I haven't made.

This isn't a partisan game. Posting misinformation can get people killed. Stop.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

For most, if not all right wingers/conservatives to disavow racists and white supremacists would mean admitting they were wrong and godless liberals were right, and that’s a bridge too far for the Qpublican set.

[numberthirty]

...

Y'know, I don't recall ever getting a PM about being unfair to you on this topic. Or seeing anyone tell me I am. You might want to consider that the shoe in question fits, and it's rather sad to see someone dig in to defend a white nationalist this vehemently.

...

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ARDS-amp-RULES

STAY ON TOPIC

Posts or comments that are deemed off-topic to a thread's subject will be deleted at the moderator’s discretion. Repeated instances of off topic behavior, with or without a warning from the forum’s moderator, may result in punitive action.

If someone has not?

That could have more to do with that they are aware that this is actually a "News..."/"Politics..." thread than anything else.

[worstblogever]

Sorry, #30, but I think current events that Republicans have a problem with not rejecting white nationalists in their ranks is very "on topic" in this political discussion thread.

Rejecting white nationalism should not be controversial, or rankling folks so much.

[numberthirty]

Sorry, #30, but I think current events that Republicans have a problem with not rejecting white nationalists in their ranks is very "on topic" in this political discussion thread.

Rejecting white nationalism should not be controversial, or rankling folks so much.

Which would have nothing to do with a discussion of if you as a poster are being fair or not.

That would be pretty squarely "Discussing another poster..."

Never mind that it would have absolutely nothing to do with actual "News..."/"Politics..."

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Sorry, #30, but I think current events that Republicans have a problem with not rejecting white nationalists in their ranks is very "on topic" in this political discussion thread.

Rejecting white nationalism should not be controversial, or rankling folks so much.

Unless certain segments of the populace are heavily invested in white nationalism and thus are rankled when rational, non-racist people demand it be rejected.

[worstblogever]

Which would have nothing to do with a discussion of if you as a poster are being fair or not.

That would be pretty squarely "Discussing another poster..."

Never mind that it would have absolutely nothing to do with actual "News..."/"Politics..."

Is it not beyond the rules of the forum to "discuss another poster"... by quoting their posts?

Come on, now.

[numberthirty]

Is it not beyond the rules of the forum to "discuss another poster"... by quoting their posts?

Come on, now.

Since everything I have said has pretty clearly about what the issue would be with me solely discussing another poster and if they were being fair(which would have nothing to do with actual "News..."/"Politics...")?

Another poster is not even actually being discussed.

It is about what the obvious issue would be with posting that would have nothing to do with this threads topics.

[Tendrin]

But it's totally not the masks don't you see? ::eye rolls::

Don't you know? Masks magically become less effective in schools. It's because kids are smaller and so the virus particles are ALSO smaller and more easily permate the mask.

*nod*

This is science.

[Tami]

Opinion: What the Justice Department should do to stop the Texas abortion law

The Texas legislature and five Supreme Court justices have joined forces to eviscerate women’s abortion rights — the legislature by creating and the justices by leaving in place a system of private bounties designed to intimidate all who would help women exercise the right to choose. But the federal government has — and should use — its own powers, including criminal prosecution, to prevent the law from being enforced and to reduce its chilling effects.

Of course, the best approach would be for Congress to codify the right to abortion in federal law, although Democrats likely lack the votes to make that happen — and there is a risk that this conservative Supreme Court would find that such a statute exceeded Congress’s authority under the Commerce Clause.

But as President Biden calls for a “whole of government” response to the fact that thousands of women in Texas — and no doubt soon elsewhere — are being denied their constitutional rights, there are other solutions that already exist in federal law.

Attorney General Merrick Garland has the power, under federal civil rights laws, to go after any vigilantes who employ the Texas law to seek bounties from abortion providers or others who help women obtain abortions.

The attorney general should announce, as swiftly as possible, that he will use federal law to the extent possible to deter and prevent bounty hunters from employing the Texas law. If Texas wants to empower private vigilantes to intimidate abortion providers from serving women, why not make bounty hunters think twice before engaging in that intimidation?

For example, Section 242 of the federal criminal code makes it a crime for those who, “under color of law,” willfully deprive individuals “of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States.”

This statute — originally designed to go after the Ku Klux Klan — fits the Texas situation perfectly: The bounty seekers, entitled under the Texas law to collect penalties of at least $10,000, have been made, in effect, private attorneys general of Texas. They act “under color of state law,” and unless and until Roe v. Wade is overruled, they unmistakably intend to prevent the exercise of a constitutional right.

In addition, Section 241 of the federal criminal code makes it an even more serious crime for “two or more persons” to agree to “oppress, threaten, or intimidate” anyone “in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same.” This crime may be committed even by individuals not found to be acting “under color of law” but as purely private vigilantes, as long as they’re acting in concert with others.

[numberthirty]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/edwards...bing-findings/

Chicago Police Pension Forensic Audit Ends With Disturbing Findings

According to a lawsuit filed this week by Tobe, the pension denied most of his requests for records under the Illinois Freedom of Information Act. It’s no secret that state and local government pensions—which are supposed to be the most transparent of all pensions—are regularly criticized for opposing public record requests, particularly related to alternative investment documents.

The report accuses the pension of failing to monitor and fully disclose investment fees and expenses. It is estimated that fees and expenses could be 10 times greater than the $7.4 million disclosed in the pension’s most recent financial audit. Tobe believes the fees related to dozens of investment managers are not properly disclosed. Using assumptions from an Oxford study, Tobe estimated that undisclosed fees could be as high as $70 million a year. Also, $2 million to $3 million a year in investment fees may have been paid to Wall Street for doing nothing, i.e., fees on committed, uninvested capital.

[Mister Mets]

White People acting stupid, I wonder where it comes from?

Here is one person's opinion on the subject: White People aren't stupid: Note to my white self



Willfully ignorant? Stupid to the point of Gullibility? Or just appearing that way to the rest of us while fully aware of what they are doing and the damage it causes?

i think this article makes a major mistake in assuming that mainstream political positions (hard drugs should be illegal, there should be limits on legal immigration, etc.) can only be reached by people with major character flaws. There's a similar view on the right and it's gross there too.

I'm not sure it's applicable to current concerns (IE- white adults not getting vaccinated and being careless about Covid.)

Are you under the impression that the US is somehow rolling out the red carpet for immigrants to come here now? Unless you're willing to just have border patrol shoot everybody that tries to come in on sight, most migrants would much rather just try to make it here first and then take their chances, rather than go through a convoluted and expensive legal process that more than likely will turn them away. Incidentally, this constant propaganda about the US being a shining city on a hill that welcomes the poor and downtrodden gives immigrants an unduly positive impression of the country, and often instills the entirely unfounded belief that once they make it here they can just appeal to the better angels of the authorities and garner enough sympathy to be allowed to stay. If only we were honest to the rest of the world about what a bunch of cruel psychopaths we really were, maybe fewer people would risk the trip.

I disagree with the notion that psychopaths are the only people who want a border policy.

We should make legal immigration easier, although a necessary part of that process is doing more to limit the other kind. There are definitely mixed messages on the topic. An informed person can conclude that the policy of Democrats is to make American citizenship available in an inevitable amnesty to everyone clever enough to get to the country.

My apologies. I misspoke.



You are not engaging in serious policy disagreements. You are, as another poster put it, gaslighting. Whether you are aware of that or not, it certainly reflects poorly. But I will admit you are a master at articulating ridiculous points without being rude. Something I am not nearly as accomplished at, clearly.

Also, not being rude doesn't make your comments less offensive.

The solution to "kids in cages" would be a serious policy disagreement. If migrants bringing their families were automatically granted residence in the United States and put on the path to citizenship, this would likely encourage further efforts. Pointing this out should not be offensive. Reasonable adults should be able to discuss traeoffs.

Of course there is! Seatbelt laws have been in existence a lot longer than mask mandates! What are you going to argue next, that laws regarding landline telephones have more evidence for their effectiveness than laws regarding cell phones?

Then the comparison you made wasn't a great one.

Don't you know? Masks magically become less effective in schools. It's because kids are smaller and so the virus particles are ALSO smaller and more easily permate the mask.

*nod*

This is science.

The explanation was different and posted earlier.

It is quite common in medicine for procedures that work on adults to not be effective with children. In addition, the effectiveness of masks does not last for the entire school day.

In addition, there are specific costs to having kids wear masks, and the costs of Covid are lower for children (a.contrast with previous epidemics in which children were more likely to die or face serious ailments.)