All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Kirby101]

the problem with parody is that it has to be an exaggeration that people recognize as false. All you do is call out the perfidy of Democrats and pretend it is not true.

Too bad it's not parody, but a clear reflection of the man you support.

Trump’s claim that millions of people voted illegally

Trump told congressional leaders “that between 3 million and 5 million illegal votes caused him to lose the popular vote.”
—The Washington Post, Jan. 23, 2017

And this was before the lunatic ravings from your guy after the last election. Have fun storming the Capitol.

[Kirby101]

Not hardly, dude. You're not very good at this. So far, you've been nothing more than a check list of right wing agitprop nonsense. If you think your posts are 'painful truths, you need to realize insight is not your strong point.

They are painful, but far from truths.

[Xheight]

Isolationism is a two way street, it's not really logically consistent if you want Americans to still be able to work and travel wherever they want, but don't want anybody else to be able to do the same here.

Isolationism is not absolute any more than Globalism as an ideology. I can fully see being able to travel and work as registered nation with a passport. Refugees, asylum requests, illegal labor...are issues contained within that border control that still allow for people to interact.

[Xheight]

Too bad it's not parody, but a clear reflection of the man you support.

Trump’s claim that millions of people voted illegally



And this was before the lunatic ravings from your guy after the last election. Have fun storming the Capitol.

If it was only the Man that I supported then it would just be a matter of opinion but it is more and more the conclusion of many people that our system is broken and not by circumstance alone but a grasping and greedy oligarchy that uses parties to hold power and appease the masses. Storm the Capital? again? Messages and protests are only so effective in bring about real change. The only change you seem to support is change back to some failed state that we have had these 20+ years.

It is notable that in all the post 9/11 anniversary remembrances that people look back on the unity then fondly but what was absent even then was the sense of prosperity. The painful truth is that the US has been on a long slide of being a great country to being a great country to be exploited. Perhaps that is what burns MAGA haters so knowing that 'I've gots mine' is not the gold standard.

[Xheight]

Not hardly, dude. You're not very good at this. So far, you've been nothing more than a check list of right wing agitprop nonsense. If you think your posts are 'painful truths, you need to realize insight is not your strong point.

sez one who hardly knows how to use agitprop in a sentence.

[Tendrin]

sez one who hardly knows how to use agitprop in a sentence.

I called your post a checklist of right wing propaganda points. It's performative over substantive. That's what agitprop is in this context especially.

[PwrdOn]

Isolationism is not absolute any more than Globalism as an ideology. I can fully see being able to travel and work as registered nation with a passport. Refugees, asylum requests, illegal labor...are issues contained within that border control that still allow for people to interact.

Yeah the thing with that is, if you're okay with the fact that our military still has bases all over the globe and our businesses are dependent on profits from operating in foreign countries, then you can't exactly turn around and call yourself an isolationist. Why is okay when we show up uninvited to someone else's country, but not okay for them to come here? You really think that the reason there are so many Americans working abroad is because everyone else just loves to have us around?

[Kirby101]

If it was only the Man that I supported then it would just be a matter of opinion but it is more and more the conclusion of many people that our system is broken and not by circumstance alone but a grasping and greedy oligarchy that uses parties to hold power and appease the masses. Storm the Capital? again? Messages and protests are only so effective in bring about real change. The only change you seem to support is change back to some failed state that we have had these 20+ years.

It is notable that in all the post 9/11 anniversary remembrances that people look back on the unity then fondly but what was absent even then was the sense of prosperity. The painful truth is that the US has been on a long slide of being a great country to being a great country to be exploited. Perhaps that is what burns MAGA haters so knowing that 'I've gots mine' is not the gold standard.

This can be directly traced back to Reagan. And you truly are deluded if you think it's the liberals who don't want to help anyone and the "tax breaks for the rich" party that is trying to help the downtrodden.

[The Watcher]

Communists believe in Open Borders

Every person who had to risk their life evading border guards to escape regimes like East Germany during the Cold War or North Korea today laughs at this asinine and untrue statement.

[Xheight]

This can be directly traced back to Reagan. And you truly are deluded if you think it's the liberals who don't want to help anyone and the "tax breaks for the rich" party that is trying to help the downtrodden.

Were it Reagan then why the up-swell of pride and prosperity in that time? Packing it into a failed label of opprobrium can't unwrite the way that the country has been redesigned for Plebeian nation of lip service to liberalism. Liberalism ain't what it was and it was never about redistributive policies for one. The deluded here are those that think a party platform or an infrastructure bill is going to correct a two class system that has been created by such policies. Even Levellers of the 17th-century understood that property is the way out of feudalism not just reforming it and making it more livable, which is essentially where current DSA rhetoric lands us with better healthcare, and state childcare so the peasants can get back to work.

[Xheight]

Every person who had to risk their life evading border guards to escape regimes like East Germany during the Cold War or North Korea today laughs at this asinine and untrue statement.

And there communists to this day who claim that the East Block was a failure of TRUE communism. Don't take my word for it https://socialistworker.org/2018/11/...t-open-borders

Marx, unlike Nagle, is not celebrating or accommodating anti-immigrant sentiment. He is making the case that that the bigotry, racism and chauvinism of the English working class have to be overcome! And not by immigration restriction, as Nagle would have us believe, but by the left actively organizing inside the working class to overcome nationalist prejudices and forge solidarity — as he explains only a few sentences later:

'Hence it is the task of the International everywhere to put the conflict between England and Ireland in the foreground, and everywhere to side openly with Ireland. It is the special task of the Central Council in London to make the English workers realize that for them the national emancipation of Ireland is not a question of abstract justice or humanitarian sentiment but the first condition of their own social emancipation.'

Far from being unwelcome on today’s left, Marx would be with us organizing solidarity with Syrian refugees, rallying for those in exodus from Honduras and other Central American countries to be let in, and arguing within the union halls that all undocumented workers need to be organized.

[GindyPosts]

Baloney on rye. Anti-immigration does not equal White nationalist simply isolationist of which many non white agree with like this 한국사람

Communists believe in Open Borders but does that make everyone who thinks the US should increase immigration and welcome everyone who wants to come here is a commie?

*Laughs in the Berlin Wall, Iron Curtain, Demilitarized Zone, and other instances of Marxist-Leninist Communist nations locking down their borders or enforcing a military presence*

Frankly, we used to have open borders, but we were so scared of other countries that we decided to clamp down on immigration and increased border security. The late 1800s barred Chinese immigrants from coming in, the 1910s saw increased scrutiny from anyone who was considered a socialist or an anarchist, and during the Red Scare, the fear of socialists sneaking in from Mexico shut down the lax border that allowed migrant workers to come in, do seasonal jobs, and return to Mexico without many complaints, leading to the surge in Hispanic populations as well as illegal immigration that probably would have just relied on just the migrant system instead of full-time residence (and other, deeper things that America played a role in, like the War on Drugs causing a rise of cartels and the destruction of traditional farming).

[Kirby101]

Were it Reagan then why the up-swell of pride and prosperity in that time? Packing it into a failed label of opprobrium can't unwrite the way that the country has been redesigned for Plebeian nation of lip service to liberalism. Liberalism ain't what it was and it was never about redistributive policies for one. The deluded here are those that think a party platform or an infrastructure bill is going to correct a two class system that has been created by such policies. Even Levellers of the 17th-century understood that property is the way out of feudalism not just reforming it and making it more livable, which is essentially where current DSA rhetoric lands us with better healthcare, and state childcare so the peasants can get back to work.

Actually, there wasn't as much prosperity under Reagan as under the Dems who preceded and followed him. And as for pride, I am sure you understand fascistic populism.

As for your final sentence, not sure at all what policies you are advocating? Free Market Libertarianism?

[Xheight]

Yeah the thing with that is, if you're okay with the fact that our military still has bases all over the globe and our businesses are dependent on profits from operating in foreign countries, then you can't exactly turn around and call yourself an isolationist. Why is okay when we show up uninvited to someone else's country, but not okay for them to come here? You really think that the reason there are so many Americans working abroad is because everyone else just loves to have us around?

Well for one I don't advocate for American Hegemony but let us look at some facts. There are 6.32 million American and 4.7 million British expats living abroad compared to say a staggering 230 million!
Expats make up 3.1% of global population. https://expatchild.com/world-expat-population-numbers/

As to our companies let's be clear the Corporations are stateless actors and american as Coca-Cola does not exist anymore. So I am not talking about protecting Apple market share.

[Xheight]

Actually, there wasn't as much prosperity under Reagan as under the Dems who preceded and followed him. And as for pride, I am sure you understand fascistic populism.

As for your final sentence, not sure at all what policies you are advocating? Free Market Libertarianism?

Repubs and Dems have have spent whole campaigns trying to "prove" such prosperity or lack of but such objective final statements are not possible and Three Terms is a as good a measure of regained confidence as any. I would even add that Clinton himself rode out a NeoLiberal economic policy that "ended welfare as we know it it" so let's not ask and I won't tell. I am advocating a better populism no adjective required. Free Market Liberalism seems to work only in small scale economies where large interests can't manipulate the markets hence my advocacy for small and local over national or international. The US may well be a failed concept at this point but muddling along with government hand outs will only add to that assessment.