All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Totoro Man]

Like Qpublicans thought we could win in Afghanistan?

eh, to be fair, a LOT of people THOUGHT we could "win" in Afghanistan. W. Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden all played a role over the years. I think all of these people bought into the idea of "American Exceptionalism" and thought we could somehow not end up the same way as pretty much everybody else did.

personally, I didn't see us having any better luck than the Soviet Union... and they were a LOT closer and had more to gain by their involvement. the Soviets ended up pulling out after they realized that they couldn't "win" without catastrophic political consequences.

the Anglo-Afghan War didn't end all that well for Great Britain either. both of these countries had a number of strategic and territorial advantages that the United States simply never had when dealing with Afghanistan. so, I'm puzzled that we held on to that notion of staying in Afghanistan for as long as we did.

[AnakinFlair]

eh, to be fair, a LOT of people THOUGHT we could "win" in Afghanistan. W. Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden all played a role over the years. I think all of these people bought into the idea of "American Exceptionalism" and thought we could somehow not end up the same way as pretty much everybody else did.

personally, I didn't see us having any better luck than the Soviet Union... and they were a LOT closer and had more to gain by their involvement. the Soviets ended up pulling out after they realized that they couldn't "win" without catastrophic political consequences.

the Anglo-Afghan War didn't end all that well for Great Britain either. both of these countries had a number of strategic and territorial advantages that the United States simply never had when dealing with Afghanistan. so, I'm puzzled that we held on to that notion of staying in Afghanistan for as long as we did.

Never underestimate the power of the Industrial Military Complex. How many CEOs of how many defense businesses got rich off the contracts to supply weapons and material to the US military? Many of those contracts wouldn't be necessary if we weren't fighting a war.

[Totoro Man]

Never underestimate the power of the Industrial Military Complex. How many CEOs of how many defense businesses got rich off the contracts to supply weapons and material to the US military? Many of those contracts wouldn't be necessary if we weren't fighting a war.

well, since I've been reading about military history for roughly 40 years... I like to think that I don't. personally, if I had my way I would require politicians to read Sun Tzu's "Art of War" and Clausewitz' "On War" if they're going to run for high political office. those two books alone could probably crush a lot (but certainly not ALL) of the political delusions about the nature of the military and what it can actually accomplish.

[Totoro Man]

eh, so what happened to PwrdOn? I know this thread can get salty and personal but...

I was more taken aback by their handling of other posters in regards to China and Xinjiang... I mean, did they REALLY know all that stuff I mentioned (about the Sino-Vietnamese War in 1978, the Kumul Uprising, the Ili Rebellion, etc) BEFORE I mentioned it here?

if so, that would have made their behavior towards other people on the subject Xinjiang in this thread pretty dishonest and savage. knowing all of that but then STILL dismissing any and all fears about China as nothing more than white existential guilt and dread?

honestly, it might actually be one of the meanest things I've seen done on a discussion board this side of making personal threats or deliberately outing closeted people.

[Kirby101]

eh, so what happened to PwrdOn?

Called back to Beijing?

[babyblob]

eh, so what happened to PwrdOn? I know this thread can get salty and personal but...

I was more taken aback by their handling of other posters in regards to China and Xinjiang... I mean, did they REALLY know all that stuff I mentioned (about the Sino-Vietnamese War in 1978, the Kumul Uprising, the Ili Rebellion, etc) BEFORE I mentioned it here?

if so, that would have made their behavior towards other people on the subject Xinjiang in this thread pretty dishonest and savage. knowing all of that but then STILL dismissing any and all fears about China as nothing more than white existential guilt and dread?

honestly, it might actually be one of the meanest things I've seen done on a discussion board this side of making personal threats or deliberately outing closeted people.

To be honest that seemed to be the answer for every problem. America is bad and white people are racist. I kind of took some time off reading the thread when the whole China back and forth was going on.

Im not a huge fan of China but I did have a cat named Chairman Meow that little dude was alright

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Is everyone having fun tonight? (kidding, or maybe not)

Seems I missed out on more back and forth.

The Yankees are losing to Boston in the AL Wild Card game, so I'm having fun at present.

[numberthirty]

...

I'm a bit confused as to whether you think Trump had no shot in 2020, or if Biden eked out a narrow win.

....

Easy...

Even though Trump was taking a flame thrower to any chances that he had of winning a second term, Biden had two more total EC votes than Trump in 2016.

Either Trump had a resounding win back in 2016, or they both just barely put a win together.

[Gray Lensman]

eh, so what happened to PwrdOn? I know this thread can get salty and personal but...

I was more taken aback by their handling of other posters in regards to China and Xinjiang... I mean, did they REALLY know all that stuff I mentioned (about the Sino-Vietnamese War in 1978, the Kumul Uprising, the Ili Rebellion, etc) BEFORE I mentioned it here?

if so, that would have made their behavior towards other people on the subject Xinjiang in this thread pretty dishonest and savage. knowing all of that but then STILL dismissing any and all fears about China as nothing more than white existential guilt and dread?

honestly, it might actually be one of the meanest things I've seen done on a discussion board this side of making personal threats or deliberately outing closeted people.

Looks like he was smacked by the Banhammer. I don't know if it is a temp ban or a permanent one.

[Tendrin]

eh, so what happened to PwrdOn? I know this thread can get salty and personal but...

I was more taken aback by their handling of other posters in regards to China and Xinjiang... I mean, did they REALLY know all that stuff I mentioned (about the Sino-Vietnamese War in 1978, the Kumul Uprising, the Ili Rebellion, etc) BEFORE I mentioned it here?

if so, that would have made their behavior towards other people on the subject Xinjiang in this thread pretty dishonest and savage. knowing all of that but then STILL dismissing any and all fears about China as nothing more than white existential guilt and dread?

honestly, it might actually be one of the meanest things I've seen done on a discussion board this side of making personal threats or deliberately outing closeted people.

They've also defended the BJP at length while declaring anyone concerned for Muslims in India had, you guessed it, 'white guilt' over our own treatment of Muslims.

[godisawesome]

I'm not a Trump fan, but I do read a decent amount from people with different views. It seems there are four main strands of Trump supporters.

One group likes that he has governed as a conservative. He has selected originalist or textualist judges. He selected a lot of cabinet officials who would easily have been in a Jeb Bush administration. He made some moves on deregulation. These people may have begrudgingly supported him in the 2016 general election, and have been happy that he wasn't a secret Democrat.

There is another group that thinks there are major problems in America that require significant change (rent, caretaking and college are too expensive, blue-collar work doesn't have stability, etc.) Many of them supported Ron Paul in earlier primaries, and then backed Trump in 2016, even though Trump was very different on spending. They might often vote for Democrats. They want things to get better, and will be willing to vote for radicals until it happens.

Another section of Republicans that would support Trump are those who want someone to aggressively push back against the cultural left. They think Romney, McCain and the Bushes were too genteel, and want someone to fight against academia, the media and the entertainment industry.

A final group is the bad people. I think it was a Vox podcast where a speaker used the euphemism that many Trump fans were motivated by animus. Other politicians are afraid to openly be against protected classes, but Trump will push for a ban on Muslim immigrants. It's worth noting that this support isn't limited to white people. While white racists are obviously going to prefer Trump to most alternatives, he will also have fans among minority voters who have animus against others (IE- African-American men who don't like immigrants, Hispanic voters who are homophobic.)

As I would add to this…

Group 1: Generally people who care more about one or two policy goals more than their country, their morals, or actual governing. It’s more than simple conservative governments because at a certain point, it became blatantly clear Trump was a train wreck… but if that doesn’t matter to someone if their comparative wealth looks better than their neighbors, or if their personal social issue is seen through (usually abortion), than it’s not like everything else getting measurably worse will matter either.

Group 2: This blue collar group is far more motivated by the vaguely fascistic narratives of Trump and the new GOP, but are either ignorantly unaware of its racism, sexism, and desire to keep the poor poor, or are desperately buying into the narrative from Fox and co. trying to avoid facing a reality that they are smart enough to realize would crush their self-images as pragmatists. Without this element of denial and false-narrative, they’d likely have simply stayed voting Democrat, or moved onto voting Democrat.

Group 3: These are people deep in denial and controlled by an emotional story they can’t bear to not be true. They don’t want to think, they don't want to hear about reality, and they can’t handle harsh truths. They want aggression because without aggression, they have to face the fact they might be wrong on some things. They also want aggression because they’re scared, and lack faith in their fellow Americans, America’s allies, or in the capacity of soft power.

Group 4: Generally, people from all three previous groups who either held their previous opinions in part because of horrible biases and prejudices, or have turned towards those horrible biases and prejudices because they need a reasoning for their bad mistakes and failures, so even **** ones become attractive.

No one supporting the current party is actually supporting real patriotism, real Christianity, real wisdom, real strength, or real leadership.

The more pitiable are grappling with a reality they can’t face, the more frustrating are apathetic about anyone but themselves, and the most lost and intractable have embraced hatred in a vicious cycle of myopia and cruelty for cruelty’s sake.

[Tendrin]

eh, to be fair, a LOT of people THOUGHT we could "win" in Afghanistan. W. Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden all played a role over the years. I think all of these people bought into the idea of "American Exceptionalism" and thought we could somehow not end up the same way as pretty much everybody else did.

In fairness to Biden, he did not think that. While he stopped short of calling for full withdrawal in 2009, he wanted a leaner, more focused mission and his current movements make sense in the context of having seen what played out from 2009-2016. this Vox article covers it well.

https://www.vox.com/2021/8/18/226291...drawal-reasons

[JackDaw]

I'm not a Trump fan, but I do read a decent amount from people with different views. It seems there are four main strands of Trump supporters.

One group likes that he has governed as a conservative. He has selected originalist or textualist judges. He selected a lot of cabinet officials who would easily have been in a Jeb Bush administration. He made some moves on deregulation. These people may have begrudgingly supported him in the 2016 general election, and have been happy that he wasn't a secret Democrat.

There is another group that thinks there are major problems in America that require significant change (rent, caretaking and college are too expensive, blue-collar work doesn't have stability, etc.) Many of them supported Ron Paul in earlier primaries, and then backed Trump in 2016, even though Trump was very different on spending. They might often vote for Democrats. They want things to get better, and will be willing to vote for radicals until it happens.

Another section of Republicans that would support Trump are those who want someone to aggressively push back against the cultural left. They think Romney, McCain and the Bushes were too genteel, and want someone to fight against academia, the media and the entertainment industry.

A final group is the bad people. I think it was a Vox podcast where a speaker used the euphemism that many Trump fans were motivated by animus. Other politicians are afraid to openly be against protected classes, but Trump will push for a ban on Muslim immigrants. It's worth noting that this support isn't limited to white people. While white racists are obviously going to prefer Trump to most alternatives, he will also have fans among minority voters who have animus against others (IE- African-American men who don't like immigrants, Hispanic voters who are homophobic.)

Thanks for that. It made a lot of points that I was ignorant of, and helps me to understand a bit more.

I think I can understand quite well the reasons Donald won the election against Hilary C…at that point apart from the factors you mention, he had one incredibly unusual advantage…the lack of any longstanding connection with “machine politics”. He had no record in any high public office that anyone could point to, evaluate, criticise.

But after 4 years as President..I just thought so many personal failings had been highlighted that any person with the best interests of Republican Party at heart would want to ditch him quickly.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

eh, so what happened to PwrdOn? I know this thread can get salty and personal but...

I could be wrong, but I think he used a racial slur in a post, the one that starts with "Uncle..."

[worstblogever]

On this date back in 2014, “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” had a profile of Lenar Whitney, a former dance instructor who ran for office in Louisiana's 6th Congressional District in 2014, whose political heroes include Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin who once created a Youtube video titled simply "CLIMATE CHANGE IS A HOAX!" and when the media reported her stance on the issue, immediately began declaring herself a victim of the liberal media. She also claimed that nations of the Middle East sell the United States oil to raise money to "blow us off the face of the Earth", and was pulled from the room by her aides during her interview with the Cook Political Report after she started to speculate about President Obama's birthplace only to claim the person conducting it was trying to make a "Palin-style interview".


In 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, as well as 2020, "Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day" featured profiles of U.S. Senator John Boozman of Arkansas, who while looking like the "before" picture in ads for electric nose and ear hair trimmers, has floated around Washington since 2002, first in the House, and now, a full seven years in the Senate. Boozman has appeared at events hosted by Brigette Gabriel and ACT, an anti-Muslim hate group in Washington, D.C. is an extreme social conservative, having voted for a proposed Constitutional amendment to ban same sex marriage, voting against any and all legislation towards LGBT rights including ENDA, the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", and once tried to bring a bill to the floor with Ted Cruz that would force the federal government to defer to the states on same-sex marriage. He has bought into several GOP conspiracy theories, from ACORN, to the IRS Scandal, to going as far as saying Planned Parenthood has had "a role in harvesting organs from unborn babies." Boozman repeatedly has voted against equal pay for women, against the renewal of the Violence Against Women Act, and to restrict reproductive rights whenever possible. He voted against the renewal of CHIP, against Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform, against raising the debt ceiling, and against the Zadroga Bill. He's a ridiculously radical opponent of gun control, arguing that assault weapon bans are unnecessary because they are too “big and bulky” to be used in criminal acts, participated in a Republican filibuster of the Toomey-Manchin Firearms Background Check Act, and spoke out against banning armor-piercing ammunition, feeling that no ammunition can be banned without violating the Constitution. He's on more than one occasion, voted to protect the right to bear arms of people who end up on the "no-fly list", feeling that while we don't trust them to even get on an airplane, suspected terrorists should be allowed to stockpile guns and ammo.

Boozman won re-election in 2016 with 60% of the vote, and during the Trump administration, he rubber-stamped every nominee for Donald Trump's "Cabinet of Horrors". That is EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. Oh, and he voted to put Neil Gorsuch, Amy Coney Barrett and accused sexual predator Brett Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court. His voting record also shows that he voted for both of the Senate's attempts to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act that would have left about 23-24 million people without health insurance, and in July 2017, Boozman even suggested that he was willing to repeal without a replacement, if that's what it took. Never mind that it would mean tens of thousands more Americans would die ANNUALLY.

That's probably the reason while he's gone the coward's route, and refused to attend town halls with his constituents in person, most of whom he's shocked... SHOCKED to learn don't actually support Donald Trump's policies once they realize they impact themselves negatively, too. You can't accuse Sen. Boozman of being heartless, though, because he didn't host any town halls during the August Congressional recess because he was having follow-up surgery on a tear in his aorta that hospitalized him in 2014. He returned to work in the Senate in 2017 without much further incident.

But what has us a but annoyed at the moment, was that Sen. Boozman was one of the few Republicans to make a statement after the Ukraine whistle-blower scandal hit and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced House Democrats were launching an impeachment inquiry based on Donald Trump’s decision to ask the Ukrainian president to interfere on his behalf in the 2020 elections. Boozman’s take is… this is just “blatantly partisan tactics”:

"Democrats have long sought to weaken the president, appease their base and further divide the country through impeachment. This latest action demonstrates their willingness to blindly follow this obsession regardless of the facts.”

Psst… hey ***hole? The point of the inquiry is to gather facts. And the more the facts come out, the more it looks like you’re propping up a lawless fascist douche-canoe.

Which, it never was in question that the facts don’t matter to John Boozman. He voted to disallow witnesses at the impeachment trial, thus making it a “trial”, and then he voted to acquit him.

• January 31st, 2020: John Boozman votes against witnesses being allowed in the first impeachment trial of Donald Trump, effectively making it a “trial”.
• February 5th, 2020: Sen. Boozman votes against the first impeachment of Donald Trump, in spite of the mountain of evidence showing that he solicited foreign assistance in the 2020 elections.
• February 25th, 2020: Boozman votes for the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, an insane piece of anti-choice legislation that would ask abortion providers to try to admit aborted fetuses to a hospital if they were “alive” after the procedure, which is medically impossible given the age that abortions can be performed at.
• February 13th, 2021: John Boozman votes to acquit Donald Trump in his second impeachment trial, feeling that he deserves no punishment for inciting an attack on the Capitol and jeopardizing the lives of the legislative branch of our government.
• March 6th, 2021: Sen. Boozman votes against the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021, because he can’t be bothered to care if people need financial assistance during a pandemic.
• September 30th, 2021: Boozman votes for an amendment to a government funding bill that would target and eliminate government aid for Afghani refugees that just fled their country after the return of the Taliban.

Just a reminder to the people of Arkansas… this f***er is up for re-election in 2022, so if you’d like to elect someone who actually deigns to speak to any of you, that’s going to be the time to hold him accountable.