All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Username taken]

Many props to the passion for change here, but trying to initiate change by discussing this with conservatives whose entire raison d’etre is to keep things the way they are is literally like talking to a brick wall. They have yet to accept that police brutality and systemic racism is even that much of a problem.


I’ll admit I am curious as to their stance on the rights of Hong Kongers though.

There are a few (very,very few) conservatives that actually acknowledge the problems with the system. Unfortunately, their voices have been drowned out by the right-wing cranks that have slipped into anti-intellectualism and conspiracy theories.

I'm personally very happy about the protests and the fact that so many non-blacks are actually supporting them. It's pretty necessary because there's been a distinct rise in right-wing stupidity in the last few years. A couple of years back, people could have rational discussions about the issues in the minority communities and their struggles but stuff like 4chan, Reddit and even Youtube seems to have created an entire generation of people that are far too lazy to investigate the root cause of issues and how things can actually improve. Instead of trying to be and know better, too many people are simply content with the clear misinformation they receive on social media and sadly can't break away from their parents racism/bias. Worse still, some of these guys are minorities that have been completely brainwashed by right wing propaganda. These guys forget they too are actually benefiting from the civil rights that several black people and other minorities lost their lives for. The level of ignorance i see online is staggering and scary because a lot of these guys will end up being office holders (like the current governor of Florida).

[worstblogever]

I used to profile Michele Fiore when she was a nutty state legislator in Nevada. Well, she went to the city level, and I haven't been paying too close attention to her. But she's still in Vegas, and in the midst of all this civil unrest, Fiore thinks it's a great time to join a "Blue Lives Matter" march.

[JackDaw]

Without a quantity, the answer you're looking for is, "FAR TOO F***ING OFTEN."

Norway's cops go a decade without killing ANYBODY. America's cops do it multiple times a day.

If nurses can restrain patients without using a chokehold, a cop should be able to.

Norway’s incidence of deaths in police custody was already low..but went lower still when they started taking very drunk people to detoxification centres, rather than temporarily holding them in police cells.

I imagine given incidence of gun ownership in US, policing of drunks must be a pretty undesirable job? Or indeed policing of any aggressive individual.

Isn’t a significant part of moving to better policing reducing widespread gun ownership?

[worstblogever]

Norway’s incidence of deaths in police custody was already low..but went lower still when they started taking very drunk people to detoxification centres, rather than temporarily holding them in police cells.

I imagine given incidence of gun ownership in US, policing of drunks must be a pretty undesirable job? Or indeed policing of any aggressive individual.

Isn’t a significant part of moving to better policing reducing widespread gun ownership?

Not putting assault rifles out there would justify defunding police departments of their militarized budgets, to be sure. Everything started to trend in the cops and public waving bigger and bigger weapons at each other... if there's an event to point to where things changed, it's probably the Norco shootout of 1980. The police were outgunned by the criminals, and argued since to always be ready to bring in bigger hardware.

Except now, they have friggin LRADs going onto the streets of Portland and Seattle. Sonic cannons that can cause permanent loss of hearing. For peaceful protesters.

[Darkspellmaster]

I have a serious question though in regards to the issue about no security/police in schools. That's fine and all, but are the people that end up acting as security going to have access to a weapon? Also, I'm curious as to where you would actually house actual violent criminals and people who commit crimes such as premeditated murder, or sexual assault perpetrators/abusers who can be very dangerous to their victims. Do we at least get a location where people like the woman who murdered her boyfriend because she thought it would be funny can go? And no, I dont think a mental health facility would be wise in some cases as you do not want to over tax workers there either.

One other question is, how are they going to vett and train people going forward? And one thing I have not seen at all is people asking for the abolishment of the police unions. Can we have that too as a lot of the issues come from them. And we do need to figure out issues in regard to second amendment rights.

[Darkspellmaster]

Not putting assault rifles out there would justify defunding police departments of their militarized budgets, to be sure. Everything started to trend in the cops and public waving bigger and bigger weapons at each other... if there's an event to point to where things changed, it's probably the Norco shootout of 1980. The police were outgunned by the criminals, and argued since to always be ready to bring in bigger hardware.

Except now, they have friggin LRADs going onto the streets of Portland and Seattle. Sonic cannons that can cause permanent loss of hearing. For peaceful protesters.

And this is where the issue comes into play. Chicago absolutely has an issue of illegal guns on the streets and gang violence. I think that in order for things to fully work while changing the police we need to fix the gun issues as well. A lot of it goes hand in hand as well.

[Tendrin]

Hey, WBE. From my neck of the woods:

https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/s...87837114564612

Have fun with the profile! I know she wqas already in the queue from being QAnon but she's *defintiely* a loon. I'll be shocked if she gets more than 35% of the vote.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

You're more likely to be killed by a cop than by a serial killer, terrorist, or mass shooter.

[aja_christopher]

[sammy_hansen]

You're more likely to be killed by a cop than by a serial killer, terrorist, or mass shooter.

I’m loosening up my eyes, preparing for the eye-roll which will induced by the conservative retort to this.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Derek Chauvin, a.k.a., the villain of the piece is scheduled to make his first court appearance today:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/der...Rqi?li=BBnb7Kz

That appearance will be by video, but I doubt Chauvin will utter a peep as I suspect his lawyer will do all the talking. Meanwhile, I haven't heard anything about the Minneapolis PD union having come to the defense of Chauvin or the other three cops involved in the murder of George Floyd. If so, that's probably by design as the union knows they'd be backing the mother of all wrong horses after everything that's happened over the last couple of weeks.

[aja_christopher]

"The Justice Department conducted two investigations—one looking into the shooting of Michael Brown, and another into the Ferguson Police Department. The first report made clear that there was no prosecutable case against one individual officer. The second report made clear that there was a damning case to be made against the system in which that officer operated:

Ferguson’s law enforcement practices are shaped by the City’s focus on revenue rather than by public safety needs. This emphasis on revenue has compromised the institutional character of Ferguson’s police department, contributing to a pattern of unconstitutional policing, and has also shaped its municipal court, leading to procedures that raise due process concerns and inflict unnecessary harm on members of the Ferguson community. Further, Ferguson’s police and municipal court practices both reflect and exacerbate existing racial bias, including racial stereotypes. Ferguson’s own data establish clear racial disparities that adversely impact African Americans. The evidence shows that discriminatory intent is part of the reason for these disparities...

Partly as a consequence of City and FPD priorities, many officers appear to see some residents, especially those who live in Ferguson’s predominantly African-American neighborhoods, less as constituents to be protected than as potential offenders and sources of revenue...

The "focus on revenue" was almost wholly a focus on black people as revenue. Black people in Ferguson were twice as likely to be searched during a stop, twice as likely to receive a citation when stopped, and twice as likely to be arrested during the stop, and yet were 26 percent less likely to be found with contraband. Black people were more likely to see a single incident turn into multiple citations. The disparity in outcomes remained "even after regression analysis is used to control for non-race-based variables."

One should understand that the Justice Department did not simply find indirect evidence of unintentionally racist practices which harm black people, but "discriminatory intent”—that is to say willful racism aimed to generate cash. Justice in Ferguson is not a matter of "racism without racists," but racism with racists so secure, so proud, so brazen that they used their government emails to flaunt it.

The emails including "jokes" depicting President Obama as a chimp, mocking how black people talk ("I be so glad that dis be my last child support payment!"), depicting blacks as criminals, welfare recipients, unemployed, lazy, and having "no frigging clue who their Daddies are.” This humor—given the imprimatur of government email—resulted in neither reprimand, nor protest, nor even a polite request to refrain from reoffending. "Instead," according to the report, "the emails were usually forwarded along to others."

One should resist the urge to clutch pearls and carp about the "mean people" of Ferguson. Bigoted jokes are never really jokes at all, so much as a tool by which one sanctifies plunder. If black people in Ferguson are the 47 percent—a class of takers, of immoral reprobates, driving up crime while driving down quality of life—then why should they not be "the sources of revenue?" In this way a racist "joke" transfigures raw pillage into legal taxation. The "joke" is in fact an entire worldview that reveals that the agents of plunder, the police, are in fact not plundering anyone at all. They are just making sure the reprobates pay their fair share.

That is precisely what Ferguson's officials told federal investigators:

Several Ferguson officials told us during our investigation that it is a lack of “personal responsibility” among African-American members of the Ferguson community that causes African Americans to experience disproportionate harm under Ferguson’s approach to law enforcement. Our investigation suggests that this explanation is at odd with the facts.

On the contrary the investigation "revealed African Americans making extraordinary efforts to pay off expensive tickets for minor, often unfairly charged, violations, despite systemic obstacles to resolving those tickets." And while the investigation found no lack of "personal responsibility" among black residents of Ferguson, it did find that the very same people making the charge were often busy expunging fines for their friends:

In August 2013, an FPD patrol supervisor wrote an email entitled “Oops” to the Prosecuting Attorney regarding a ticket his relative received in another municipality for traveling 59 miles per hour in a 40 miles-per-hour zone, noting “[h]aving it dismissed would be a blessing.” The Prosecuting Attorney responded that the prosecutor of that other municipality promised to nolle pros the ticket. The supervisor responded with appreciation, noting that the dismissal “[c]ouldn’t have come at a better time.”

Also in August 2013, Ferguson’s Mayor emailed the Prosecuting Attorney about a parking ticket received by an employee of a non-profit day camp for which the Mayor sometimes volunteers. The Mayor wrote that the person “shouldn’t have left his car unattended there, but it was an honest mistake” and stated, “I would hate for him to have to pay for this, can you help?” The Prosecuting Attorney forwarded the email to the Court Clerk, instructing her to “NP [nolle prosequi, or not prosecute] this parking ticket.”

In March 2014, a friend of the Court Clerk’s relative emailed the Court Clerk with a scanned copy of a ticket asking if there was anything she could do to help. She responded: “Your ticket of $200 has magically disappeared!” Later, in June 2014, the same person emailed the Court Clerk regarding two tickets and asked: “Can you work your magic again? It would be deeply appreciated.” The Clerk later informed him one ticket had been dismissed and she was waiting to hear back about the second ticket...

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...rguson/386893/

[aja_christopher]

It must noted that the rhetoric "personal responsibility" enjoys not just currency among the white officials of Ferguson, but among many black people ("black-on-black crime!") who believe that white supremacy is a force with which one can negotiate. But white supremacy—as evidenced in Ferguson—is not ultimately interested in how responsible you are, nor how respectable you look. White supremacy is neither a misunderstanding nor a failure of manners. White supremacy is the machinery of Galactus which allows for the potential devouring of everything you own. White supremacy is the technology, patented in this enlightened era, to ensure that what is yours inevitably becomes mine.

This technology has proven highly effective throughout American history. In 1860 it meant the transformation of black bodies into more wealth than all the productive capacity of this country combined. In the 1930s it meant the erection of our modern middle class. In Ferguson, it meant funding nearly a quarter of the municipal budget..."

"The men and women behind this policy did not approach their effort to "produce more revenue" somberly, but lustily. As the fruits of plunder increased, Ferguson officials congratulated and backslapped each other:

In one March 2012 email, the Captain of the Patrol Division reported directly to the City Manager that court collections in February 2012 reached $235,000, and that this was the first month collections ever exceeded $200,000. The Captain noted that “[t]he [court clerk] girls have been swamped all day with a line of people paying off fines today. Since 9:30 this morning there hasn’t been less than 5 people waiting in line and for the last three hours 10 to 15 people at all times.” The City Manager enthusiastically reported the Captain’s email to the City Council and congratulated both police department and court staff on their “great work.”

It is a wonder they did not hand out bonuses. Perhaps they did. The bonus of being white in Ferguson meant nigh-immunity from plunder. The bane of being black in Ferguson meant nigh-inevitable subjugation under plunder. Plunder is neither abstract nor theoretical. Plunder injures, maims, and destroys. Indeed the very same people who were calling on protestors to remain nonviolent were, every hour, partner to brutality committed under the color of law:

We spoke with one African-American man who, in August 2014, had an argument in his apartment to which FPD officers responded, and was immediately pulled out of the apartment by force. After telling the officer, “you don’t have a reason to lock me up,” he claims the officer responded: “N*****, I can find something to lock you up on.” When the man responded, “good luck with that,” the officer slammed his face into the wall, and after the man fell to the floor, the officer said, “don’t pass out motherf****r because I’m not carrying you to my car.”

The residents of Ferguson do not have a police problem. They have a gang problem. That the gang operates under legal sanction makes no difference. It is a gang nonetheless, and there is no other word to describe an armed band of collection agents.

What are the tools in Ferguson to address the robber that so regularly breaks into my house? One necessary tool is suspicion and skepticism—the denial of the sort of the credit one generally grants officers of the state. When Darren Wilson shot Michael Brown there was little reason to credit his account, and several reasons to disbelieve it. The reason is not related to whether Michael Brown was "an angel" or not. The reasons are contained in a report rendered by the highest offices of the American government. Crediting the accounts of Ferguson's officers is a good way to enroll yourself in your own plunder and destruction.

Government, if its name means anything, must rise above those suspicions and that skepticism and seek out justice. And if it seeks to improve its name it must do much more—it must seek out the roots of the skepticism. The lack of faith among black people in Ferguson's governance, or in America's governance, is not something that should be bragged about. One cannot feel good about living under gangsters, and that is the reality of Ferguson right now.

The innocence of Darren Wilson does not change this fundamental fact. Indeed the focus on the deeds of alleged individual perpetrators, on perceived bad actors, obscures the broad systemic corruption which is really at the root. Darren Wilson is not the first gang member to be publicly accused of a crime he did not commit. But Darren Wilson was given the kind of due process that those of us who are often presumed to be gang members rarely enjoy. I do not favor lowering the standard of justice offered Officer Wilson.

I favor raising the standard of justice offered to the rest of us."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...rguson/386893/

[Tendrin]

All the crying over the burning police precinct, except...

Long before former officer Derek Chauvin knelt on George Floyd’s neck, the Third Precinct in south Minneapolis had a reputation for being home to police officers who played by their own rules.
One officer kicked a handcuffed suspect in the face, leaving his jaw in pieces. Officers beat and pistol-whipped a suspect in a parking lot on suspicion of low-level drug charges. Others harassed residents of a south Minneapolis housing project as they headed to work, and allowed prostitution suspects to touch their genitals for several minutes before arresting them in vice stings.
These and more substantiated incidents, detailed in court records and police reports, help explain a saying often used by fellow cops to describe the style of policing practiced in the Third: There’s the way that the Minneapolis Police Department does things, and then there’s the way they do it “in Threes.”

Between 2007 and 2017, the city paid out $2.1 million to settle misconduct lawsuits involving Third Precinct officers. Judges have thrown out cases for “outrageous” conduct of the officers, and prosecutors have been forced to drop charges for searches found to be illegal, according to court records.

https://www.startribune.com/third-pr...ops/571076562/

The institution of policing in this country is corrupt from the ground up. The third precinct is not the exception that people would like to think it is,, it's the rule, and we need to grapple with that.

[Kirby101]

You're more likely to be killed by a cop than by a serial killer, terrorist, or mass shooter.

I am not. I am an older white male. The only thing I get from cops are smiles. A nice cup of white privileged in the morning.