All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[WestPhillyPunisher]

And meanwhile, down in Texas... the family of domestic terrorist and right-wing "martyr" Ashli Babbitt held a rally on what should have been her 36th birthday celebration. So who endorsed her victimhood that she was shot and killed while trying to climb through a broken window to murder several members of Congress and Mike Pence?

Why, DONALD TRUMP, OF COURSE! He sent in a video message letting those present know they should all demand "justice" for Ashli's death. The one he motivated her to run head long and incited her to march to the Capitol for a date with the Grim Reaper.

Y'know, since we're talking how dangerous it is to pretend the election was "stolen" or "really close", I'll conclude by pointing out that Ashli Babbitt would still be alive if Donald Trump didn't have useful idiots willing to spread the lie that said election was stolen from him, and continuing to perpetuate such a myth could result on more domestic terror attacks and deaths.

Responsibly, folks should stop it. We had a lesson we should have learned around the evening of the sixth and morning of the seventh.

Trump hasn't learned anything, nor will he since he'll never admit having lost the election fair and square. His lemmings haven't learned anything because they're hopelessly enamored with The Former Guy and treat everything he says as gospel. And the GQP damn sure haven't learned anything as they continue perpetuating the big lie because they have to stay on Trump's good side. Poor doomed fools like Ashli Babbitt were nothing more than cannon fodder for Trump and his obsession for power.

[Mister Mets]

I think numberthirty's point is that just like prostitution would not exist if it were not for the johns, so why don't we arrest them too? Illegal immigration would not exist if it were not for employers who hire immigrants for low wages that American citizens would never agree to. We should do something about those employers who are committing crimes, right?

There is a contemporary argument that we shouldn't prosecute prostitutes, but that we should prosecute johns.

I completely understand the idea of going after employers. There is a legal complication that undocumented immigrants aren't supposed to be in the country so it's easier to deport them than to do anything about citizens, but there's something to be said for fining or even initiating criminal charges against people who knowingly hire undocumented immigrants, especially if they're using it as a workaround to dodge minimum wage or basic worker protections.

I can see both sides. I know that doesnt help. Biden did win those states by close margins as the numbers show. But two of the states if I remember right have never really been swing states before. They were in the Red camp. The fact that Biden won them at all even if only by a little is a very troubling thing for the GOP and the reason they are going all in on the big lie and the stolen election. The only people I have heard call Georgia and Arizona a swing state are pretty much the GOP so they can feel like they could have lost it because before 2020 they were swing states. The last time Georiga went blue was in 96 after that 5 GOP wins in a row before 2020. That is not a swing state.

Arizona was the same way. Going blue in 96 and then solid Red. Before 96 solid Red. Again not a swing state. So yea the margins in those 2 states are close but the fact that a Dem can win those 2 states at all makes the contest to some people more heavy favored in Bidens camp.

The problem with the GOP is they are coming up with fake reasons and lies as to why they lost those states and not looking at the real reasons (a change in demographics, a really bad candidate etc..) and reacting accordingly. Rather they look at what they saw and decided to go the voter restriction route and the big lie route. Dont change the message to fit the will of the people. Change the rules to fit the will of the GOP

That gets to be a different argument.

Two things can simultaneously be true. Many members of the GOP are making bad arguments about why they lost an election. Meanwhile, a mediocre President came way too close to winning reelection. Your view on the latter should not be a proxy for your view on the former.

It is a bad strategy for Democrats to try to insist on particular spin for election results. First, it diminishes the argument that Republicans are beyond the pale for saying outrageous things about election results if Democratic supporters aren't willing to acknowledge painful truths about election results. Second, it makes it harder to strategize if legitimate arguments are taboo. It would be really bad if Democratic strategists are unable to say that if Trump has a national swing of one percent in a 2024 rematch, he becomes President again, because this objectively true interpretation is seen as so outrageous that it justifies insulting people who say it. Third, the focus on symbolism and the popular vote has hurt the party in the past. Ruth Bader Ginsburg stayed on the Supreme Court past the 2014 midterms because she wanted the first female President to choose her successor. The Clinton campaign wasted time and money boosting vote totals in New York, New Orleans and California, because they thought a larger popular vote win would give them more credibility. I don't think it's wise to encourage things that feel good for Democrats, but make it less likely that they'll win.

Georgia and Arizona aren't supposed to be swing states. You're just framing them as that so it seems closer. They're traditionally red, but Biden beat Trump overall well enough that he pulled those states off.

Again, there's the misrepresentation. You've moved the goalposts so often, you don't even notice they're strapped to your back at this point.

Swing states is a term of art with multiple definitions, which apply to Georgia and Arizona. These are states that will be battleground states in competitive elections, and they have swung from one side to another in recent elections.

It is worth noting election maps change.

Georgia and Arizona flipped from consistently Republican to narrowly Democratic.

Meanwhile, Ohio, Iowa, Florida and Maine's second congressional district have gone from swing states to consistently Republican.

I'm sure a Trump supporter will make claims about his 2016 wins in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan, three states that George W Bush never won, and how that indicated that the 2016 election wasn't close. Trump won narrowly in 2016, and he lost narrowly in 2020. He could very well win narrowly again in 2024, meaning that all the arguments about what to do if Republicans don't certify election wins become moot very quickly.

[numberthirty]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...f5e_story.html

‘Frustration is at an all-time high’: Behind Biden’s falling poll numbers

W. Mondale Robinson spent a large chunk of last fall in clubs and bars and concert venues in Georgia, trying to convince disenchanted Black men that casting a ballot — in the 2020 general election, then the Georgia runoffs for the U.S. Senate — could finally mean real change in their communities.

But Robinson, founder of the Black Male Voter Project, thinks the case would be a lot harder to make now. He remembers the exact moment his optimism that President Biden would be different began to fade: when Democrats in May said they were willing to significantly weaken a policing reform bill to get Republican support.

More disappointments followed. Robinson was dismayed that Biden did not push for filibuster reform to enact a $15 minimum wage. He was upset that the president did not try to halt a raft of voting restrictions passed by Georgia’s GOP-led legislature.

“I think the frustration is at an all-time high, and Biden can’t go to Georgia or any other Black state in the South and say, ‘This is what we delivered in 2021,’ ” said Robinson, whose group believes it reached 1.2 million Black men in Georgia. “Black men are pissed off about the nothingness that has happened . . . Does it make the work harder? It makes the work damn near impossible.”

After an initial burst of support, Biden has seen his approval ratings fall significantly in recent months. A Washington Post average of polls since the start of September shows 44 percent of Americans approve of Biden’s job approval, while 49 percent disapprove.

And polls suggest support for Biden has sunk notably among key Democratic constituencies — Blacks, Latinos, women and young people. Pew Research Center polls found Biden’s approval rating among Black Americans fell from 85 percent in July to 67 percent in September, while also falling 16 points among Hispanics and 14 points among Asians.

Interviews with nearly 20 advocates, activists and politicians in the crucial state of Georgia — which Biden won narrowly, in large part due to support from Black voters, after decades of Republican dominance — give a sense of the sentiments behind those numbers. At the center are Black and other minority voters who helped fuel Biden’s victory, but who now see what they consider unfulfilled promises and dwindling hope for meaningful change.

“If midterms are about enthusiasm and turnout, who do you think is excited to vote on November 2 at this moment?” said Nsé Ufot, chief executive officer of the New Georgia Project, which has registered more than a half-million voters. “Because it ain’t Democrats. It ain’t Black folks. It ain’t young people.”

But the discontent is particularly visible in Georgia, where Democrats had hoped demographic changes and mobilization efforts would offer a blueprint for expanding their electoral map.

Some Biden voters said the president will struggle to keep hard-to-engage voters in the fold if he fails to deliver on the issues that motivated them in the first place, notably police reform and voting rights. And they dismissed Democrats’ efforts to blame the lack of progress solely on the partisan divide.

“There are some things that they are willing to hold the line for and to be more adamant about,” said Christine White, executive director of the Georgia Alliance for Progress, which funds nonprofits across the state. “And I think that there are times where we cower and we believe the rhetoric about partisanship.”

But activists in Georgia say Biden and the Democrats have allowed themselves to be outmaneuvered. Many mentioned Sens. Joe Manchin III (D-W.V.) and Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.), moderate Democrats who critics said have played an inappropriate role in stopping Biden’s agenda.

Adelina Nicholls, who leads the Georgia Latino Alliance for Human Rights, said her group knocked on “every Latino door in Georgia” before the 2020 election — but now she is dismayed by the lack of help she says Biden has given to immigrants.

“The concern that we have is that the Democratic Party, they keep repeating the same mistakes,” Nicholls said. “We worked for something here. Let’s try something new, let’s be different. What good is a politician that doesn’t work for the benefit of the community that elected him?”

Helen Butler, a longtime voting rights activist and the executive director of the Georgia Coalition for the People’s Agenda, said she has been dispirited by the administration’s insistence that there is no way around the filibuster — and by how it has prioritized an infrastructure bill as voting rights are being stripped away in Georgia.

“If people aren’t able to vote for people of their choice, then it doesn’t matter what infrastructure bill you put in now,” Butler said. “What will it matter, if they don’t have access to the ballot?”

[4saken1]

First, it's a bit of a change in goal posts to switch from Republicans (your initial post) VS Democrats to conservatives VS liberals.

I did write "It's also worth noting that some of the red states that you suggest were poorly governed had state legislatures and Governor's mansions controlled by Democrats until relatively recently, though I wouldn't say that's the reason for the outcomes." so I explicitly said I wasn't blaming Democrats.

Sorry, it wasn't my intent to move the goalposts. Can we both agree that Democratically controlled blue States generally tend to have more liberal leaning laws than Republicans strongholds, which tend to be more conservative? While I don't necessarily agree 100% with basing how red or blue a state is solely based on the outcome of the 2020 Election, it was the most comprehensive recent data that I could find at the time. Overall, I think it paints a fairly good picture of how red or blue the states are relative to other states.

I think there are other factors beyond the control of elected officials. They're not going to be able to provide West Virginia with the farmland of California.

I agree. There are some that I cannot draw a direct link to how governance affects the statistic, like suicide rate. I did, however, notice a higher prevalence in red States and lower numbers in blue ones. Maybe there's nothing to this. Maybe economic and social conditions in some red States are so intolerable to some that people are driven to take their own lives at a rate 3 times greater than those in some blue States. Maybe praying away the sad is less effective than having actual government funded programs to help people experiencing mental crises.

[numberthirty]

...

With the prostitution metaphor, one can express the opinion that only johns and pimps should be prosecuted, or that prostitution should be legal.

When it comes to immigration, what are the actual issues you refer to? Are you talking about the quality of life in the other countries? If so, that may take a while, and it's going to require good governance outside the United States whatever this country does (IE- South American mayors using foreign aid spending efficiently and honestly.)

I think numberthirty's point is that just like prostitution would not exist if it were not for the johns, so why don't we arrest them too? Illegal immigration would not exist if it were not for employers who hire immigrants for low wages that American citizens would never agree to. We should do something about those employers who are committing crimes, right?

Not exactly....

While I absolutely believe that what you brought up needs to be seriously addressed?

It's telling that neither one of you mentioned America's use of illegal drugs, and how that black market that we are solely responsible for works to destabilize everything from Mexico south.

Never mind that we are the root cause of other instability in South America.

In the same way that actually dealing with the black market that the Johns create changes the entire picture, it's always hard not to laugh at someone who wants to ignore that incredibly basic reality while asking me how much legal immigration I think is acceptable.

Why don't we stop driving it, and then we can discuss how the rest of the immigration picture should be addressed?

[Tami]

Texas Gov. Abbott issues order banning Covid vaccination mandates in rebuke of Biden

Am I the only one that is wondering if Abbott has, well, lost his mind?

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott issued an executive order on Monday prohibiting any entity, including private businesses, from imposing Covid-19 vaccination requirements on employees or customers.

"The COVID-19 vaccine is safe, effective, and our best defense against the virus, but should remain voluntary and never forced," said Abbott said in a statement.

Abbott, a Republican, said in his order that it was prompted by the Biden administration’s vaccine federal mandate, which the governor called federal overreach.

President Joe Biden announced a mandate last month requiring companies with 100 or more employees to ensure that their workforces are vaccinated or regularly tested. The Labor Department has yet to release details of the emergency rule, but Biden last week called on companies to act now and not to wait for the requirement to go into effect.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Texas Gov. Abbott issues order banning Covid vaccination mandates in rebuke of Biden

Am I the only one that is wondering if Abbott has, well, lost his mind?

Nope. As I've said numerous times, this all part of my tinfoil hat conspiracy theory that red states are intentionally letting virus cases rage, then blame Biden and Democrats for the chaos. By the way, I find it rather ironic that Abbott railed against "federal overreach" after he signed a bill putting the country's most restrictive anti-abortion bill into law in Texas. I guess that severely limiting a woman's right to choose isn't overreach and a vaccine mandate that would help save lives is. Madness.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Nope. As I've said numerous times, this all part of my tinfoil hat conspiracy theory that red states are intentionally letting virus cases rage, then blame Biden and Democrats for the chaos. By the way, I find it rather ironic that Abbott railed against "federal overreach" after he signed a bill putting the country's most restrictive anti-abortion bill into law in Texas. I guess that severely limiting a woman's right to choose isn't overreach and a vaccine mandate that would help save lives is. Madness.

How is turning random people with no interest in the circumstances into informants for cash overreach?

Liberals, amirite?

[skyvolt2000]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...f5e_story.html

Do they not understand there is so only so much he can do?

And part of that is clearing out folks in Congress and even in other offices who keep getting in the way?

The man has been in office for now 10 months. What were they expecting?

But Robinson, founder of the Black Male Voter Project, thinks the case would be a lot harder to make now. He remembers the exact moment his optimism that President Biden would be different began to fade: when Democrats in May said they were willing to significantly weaken a policing reform bill to get Republican support.

Maybe Robinson should take his Project and go to every state and city run by Republicans to get them out of office-so you don't have to weaken a bill to get support.

Some of these folks needs to understand what powers a President has. Because if that was Trump there-they wouldn't want him doing the opposite of the things they cry about Biden not doing.

“If people aren’t able to vote for people of their choice, then it doesn’t matter what infrastructure bill you put in now,” Butler said. “What will it matter, if they don’t have access to the ballot?”

No Ms Butler this when you learn to fight DIRTY.

Folks don't have IDS-you start working on that before 2024. We are in year 2 with trying to get an ID for my Dad.

Sunday at the Polls? Guess what tell that preacher he can have 7:30 service and cut a LOT of stuff out and have everyone at the polls when they open Sunday.

Poll watchers? That goes BOTH ways. They send a few-you send A LOT.

Work on getting Election Day to be an OFF day-like my school district did last year. Oh the school calendar was approved in 2018 not 2020.

Have kids fill out those voter registration in advance. They should hit the mail box within a week of the 18th birthday. Voter card and a current id should NEVER be apart from each other.

Early voting-plan a day off way in advance of the starting of it.

There are ways around those bills.

[skyvolt2000]

How is turning random people with no interest in the circumstances into informants for cash overreach?

Liberals, amirite?

When folks start making up FALSE claims on Doctors and people. It is an overreach.

Especially if the main targets are POC.

[numberthirty]

Do they not understand there is so only so much he can do?

And part of that is clearing out folks in Congress and even in other offices who keep getting in the way?

The man has been in office for now 10 months. What were they expecting?

...

When you promise big?

You had better have a pretty good plan in the event that you can barely deliver small.

[The Cool Thatguy]

When folks start making up FALSE claims on Doctors and people. It is an overreach.

Especially if the main targets are POC.

Like people would ever abuse a system that rewards them financially for invading the privacy of others.

In all seriousness, where the freakin' hell is that 10K coming from, anyways?

[Tami]

Nope. As I've said numerous times, this all part of my tinfoil hat conspiracy theory that red states are intentionally letting virus cases rage, then blame Biden and Democrats for the chaos. By the way, I find it rather ironic that Abbott railed against "federal overreach" after he signed a bill putting the country's most restrictive anti-abortion bill into law in Texas. I guess that severely limiting a woman's right to choose isn't overreach and a vaccine mandate that would help save lives is. Madness.

Which leads up to what I was going to post about. I was just watching a recent 'Death Battle' video and mid-way they had a commercial for chewable Viagra. As I watched, I'm thinking to myself, women's health, birth control, and abortion are illegal in red states, but dang it, men can 'party' anytime they want.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Which leads up to what I was going to post about. I was just watching a recent 'Death Battle' video and mid-way they had a commercial for chewable Viagra. As I watched, I'm thinking to myself, women's health, birth control, and abortion are illegal in red states, but dang it, men can 'party' anytime they want.

Yeah, commercials for ED drugs are all over TV these days, hell, it's rare to go through an evening in front of the tube without seeing them. But, yeah, men are never held responsible for the part they play in procreation, even though it takes two to tango.

[Hellion]

Which leads up to what I was going to post about. I was just watching a recent 'Death Battle' video and mid-way they had a commercial for chewable Viagra. As I watched, I'm thinking to myself, women's health, birth control, and abortion are illegal in red states, but dang it, men can 'party' anytime they want.

My favorite line from Julia Louis-Dreyfus in Veep is when she quipped that if it were possible for men to get pregnant, you'd be able to have an abortion performed at an ATM. Definitely a double standard going on with the GQP.