All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[thwhtGuardian]

The assumption here being that rational equals being against the use of violence in order to save our country. Unless you are a Quaker or something, Redemptive Violence is completely within the American Tradition. It is debatable but it is a rational debate. Curious though how that number might have shifted since the Sixties over political affiliation or non-party Americans like SDS or Black Panthers. There is something contradictory of old school conservatives who tout the 'thin blue line' now being revolutionaries so I see how the OP might see it as irrational even if it isn't.

...it is indeed an irrational idea to not only think that the nation "needs saving" and that violence would fix it or even succeed if they tried.

[Xheight]

So there haven't been Catholic pastors saying homosexuals are bad because they're the same as pedophiles, while the pastors themselves were molesting children? There literally have been books and movies on this. Where have you been, Xheight?

Hypocrisy comes in many forms, just look at our major political parties, but you are talking about causation. Just because people have made an industry of lazy psychologizing does not make correct.

[Xheight]

It isn’t about the results of the count. The objective is to create general distrust in the system.

If if it needs to be generated, more like exposed as the rot goes to the core.

They need to make the "Deep State" look huge, to radicalize their base further so that the next coup works.

It is HUGE you just have to look.
This week we had Biden "promise" to revisit the progressive stuff that got kicked to the curb. The T-shirt is: My President went to Rome and all I got was this crumb.
I will put that next to the promise to build a wall along the border.

[thwhtGuardian]

If if it needs to be generated, more like exposed as the rot goes to the core.

It is HUGE you just have to look.
This week we had Biden "promise" to revisit the progressive stuff that got kicked to the curb. The T-shirt is: My President went to Rome and all I got was this crumb.
I will put that next to the promise to build a wall along the border.

It isn't huge...it doesn't even exist. The whole deep state conspiracy is one of the dumbest things a person can believe...it's probably only second to thinking the Earth is flat.

[Xheight]

It isn't huge...it doesn't even exist. The whole deep state conspiracy is one of the dumbest things a person can believe...it's probably only second to thinking the Earth is flat.

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy to be guided by the limited interests of a deep state mired in a groupthink Contra WSJ https://www.wsj.com/articles/america...te-11576855549

But American constitutional government depends on the existence of a professional, expert, nonpartisan civil service. Hard as it is to imagine in this moment of extreme partisan polarization, government cannot function without public servants whose primary loyalty is not to the political boss who appointed them but to the Constitution and to a higher sense of the public interest. Like all modern democracies, the U.S. needs a deep state, because it is crucial to fighting corruption and upholding the rule of law.

It is not non-partisan nor able obtain a higher sense of the public interest because of self-interest as a class unto itself.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-w...the-_b_4918553

For the past 50 years, American leftist writers have warned about the increasing influence of the military-industrial complex on foreign policy (e.g. the overthrow of governments in Iran and Nicaragua, the wars in Vietnam and Iraq) and domestic affairs (e.g. political assassinations, subversion of legitimate protest). Typically the mainstream media disparaged these iconoclastic tracts only to be proven wrong by diligent investigative reporters.

[Mister Mets]

Save the country? Save it from what? Critical Race Theory? Whites losing their place at the top of the societal food chain while minorities demand their time in the sun? Vaccine mandates? Uppity women demanding full control over their own bodies? I’d love it if those people were more specific.

That would be an interesting follow-up question. In what ways is the country so off track as to make violence a possibility?

That said, I don't know how much thought the people polled gave to the question.

I've said previously that I once identified as conservative, but stopped as the Republican party became more and more extreme...and this article should be the straw for just about any other rational person to do the same.



30% is not an insubstantial number...and if you can look at that and not think, "Yikes, that's not someone I want to be grouped with" then you are no longer rational. It's as simple as that.

In this case less than a third of Republicans believe a stupid thing, compared to just over a tenth of Democrats. That doesn't seem worth supporting policies someone would believe to be harmful.

People often respond to polls with the message they want to send rather than considering what the poll is actually asking. In this case, you could easily have many Republicans opting to answer in a way that signals that they don't like Joe Biden very much.

In addition, a question about what patriots should do is primed to get more of a response from Republicans, who are more likely to say that they're patriotic.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...atriotism-too/

There would easily be a different partisan outcome if the question were phrased in a way that's more appealing to Democrats, something like "To achieve equality, violence may be necessary" especially if Republicans held congress and the white house.

One further wrinkle is the extent to which out parties tend to be opposed to the status quo.

Looking for similar polls, I found that before the election, 41 percent of Democrats and 44 percent of Republicans expressed the opinion that there was at least “a little” justification for violence if the other party’s nominee wins the election. A few months prior, it was 37 percent Democrats and 35 percent Republicans.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...iolence-424157

Meanwhile, 36 percent of Republicans and 33 percent of Democrats said it is at least “a little” justified for their side “to use violence in advancing political goals.”

So the numbers were similar for the political parties when there was uncertainty about which party would be in charge the next year, and when the question is phrased in a less politically loaded way.

[thwhtGuardian]

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy to be guided by the limited interests of a deep state mired in a groupthink Contra WSJ https://www.wsj.com/articles/america...te-11576855549



It is not non-partisan nor able obtain a higher sense of the public interest because of self-interest as a class unto itself.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-w...the-_b_4918553

It's not a deep state though...that's just the way our military organizations, intelligence agencies and civil servant core function and thinking that there is something nefarious behind it is just lunacy pure and simple.

[BeastieRunner]

It isn't huge...it doesn't even exist. The whole deep state conspiracy is one of the dumbest things a person can believe...it's probably only second to thinking the Earth is flat.

In the 1790s, Jedidiah Morse, a congregational minister in Charlestown, MA, and well-known author of geography textbooks, drew national attention by suggesting that a secret organization called the Bavarian Illuminati was at work “to root out and abolish Christianity, and overturn all civil government.” He got John Jay and Timothy Dwight and other members of the Federalist Party to help propagate this idea of the Illuminati were pervasive & in all Democratic-Republican societies. They used certain hand signs to show they "belonged" and printed their own news. Eventually, Morse’s accusations against Democratic-Republican societies were unable to withstand the weight of evidence and he stopped talking about the Illuminati. Within two decades the Federalist Party not only shrank from influence, but was totally gone.

Sound familiar? They say history rhymes at times ...

[Gray Lensman]

In the 1790s, Jedidiah Morse, a congregational minister in Charlestown, MA, and well-known author of geography textbooks, drew national attention by suggesting that a secret organization called the Bavarian Illuminati was at work “to root out and abolish Christianity, and overturn all civil government.” He got John Jay and Timothy Dwight and other members of the Federalist Party to help propagate this idea of the Illuminati were pervasive & in all Democratic-Republican societies. They used certain hand signs to show they "belonged" and printed their own news. Eventually, Morse’s accusations against Democratic-Republican societies were unable to withstand the weight of evidence and he stopped talking about the Illuminati. Within two decades the Federalist Party not only shrank from influence, but was totally gone.

Sound familiar? They say history rhymes at times ...

Well, the Federalist party was also heavily against the War of 1812. It may have been a more correct stance in the larger scope of history, but after the burning of Washington DC it was just seen as treasonous.

[thwhtGuardian]

That would be an interesting follow-up question. In what ways is the country so off track as to make violence a possibility?

That said, I don't know how much thought the people polled gave to the question.

In this case less than a third of Republicans believe a stupid thing, compared to just over a tenth of Democrats. That doesn't seem worth supporting policies someone would believe to be harmful.

People often respond to polls with the message they want to send rather than considering what the poll is actually asking. In this case, you could easily have many Republicans opting to answer in a way that signals that they don't like Joe Biden very much.

In addition, a question about what patriots should do is primed to get more of a response from Republicans, who are more likely to say that they're patriotic.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...atriotism-too/

There would easily be a different partisan outcome if the question were phrased in a way that's more appealing to Democrats, something like "To achieve equality, violence may be necessary" especially if Republicans held congress and the white house.

One further wrinkle is the extent to which out parties tend to be opposed to the status quo.

Looking for similar polls, I found that before the election, 41 percent of Democrats and 44 percent of Republicans expressed the opinion that there was at least “a little” justification for violence if the other party’s nominee wins the election. A few months prior, it was 37 percent Democrats and 35 percent Republicans.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...iolence-424157

Meanwhile, 36 percent of Republicans and 33 percent of Democrats said it is at least “a little” justified for their side “to use violence in advancing political goals.”

So the numbers were similar for the political parties when there was uncertainty about which party would be in charge the next year, and when the question is phrased in a less politically loaded way.

...except only one party is stoking those ideas. That people sometimes have baser wishes is one thing, for officials to purposefully stoke those ideas is another. When that guy asked if it was time to break out the guns no one in the Republican party stood up to decry that kind of sentiment. That should have been the response at the rally, a sound "no that kind of thinking is wrong and won't make our country better" ...but instead there was just applause and a wishy washy statement about how doing that would only play into "their" plans which only supports the sentiment.

[babyblob]

The thing is at the end of the day I wonder how many in GOP leadership or running for office even believe the whole deep state big lie BS. I am sure that a lot of them are still going on about it to court Trump cult members and voters and to have an excuse to pass bs voter restriction bills. Look at the idiot JD Vance. Spent a lot of time bashing Trump, saying eh was never a trump guy, didnt vote for him and never would if he ran again, his ideas were very harmful to the country. Yet now that he is running for office he all the sudden loves Trump, one of the greatest presidents of all time, needs to run in 2024 etc...

And if they can court voters kissing Trumps big orange ass and talking about the stolen election and how women gave birth to their kids weeks early so the newborns can vote for Biden, or all the people from Russia and China that voted Biden, or how Bidens dogs cast votes in many states then they will do it.

Or they will scare the base with tales of all these god awful illegal immigrants who as Mike Gibbons said in his campaign ad bring guns, drugs, crime, covid and more importantly to the Dems their votes.

It is all just the biggest bs and people who believe it are the dumbest human beings in the history of the world. End of story. The moment I hear any\one talk about the election being stolen or the vaccine changing their DNA I know that person's view on politics is not worth fart in the wind.

[BeastieRunner]

Well, the Federalist party was also heavily against the War of 1812. It may have been a more correct stance in the larger scope of history, but after the burning of Washington DC it was just seen as treasonous.

I was looking more at the Qanon part of the "Deep State" conspiracy since it is eerily similar to the Illuminati conspiracy that helped take down the Federalist Party.

In the 1960s & 70s, the "Deep State" were called bananas. In the 1980s, they were called haves (vs. the have-nots). Then the Rs discovered a lot of those people were "theirs" ... so they were conspicuously quiet about it up until 2012-13 when the "Deep State" conspiracy was born.

Seems to be a thing with evangelicals and conservatives in America.

And that is a good point about the War of 1812. It played into their demise as well. Morse and his conspiracy theory really did them no favors, and actually hurt the view of religion in the US.

[Xheight]

It's not a deep state though...that's just the way our military organizations, intelligence agencies and civil servant core function and thinking that there is something nefarious behind it is just lunacy pure and simple.

So basically you are saying that a hegemonic ideology is OKAY to protect it from democracy. Who needs a conspiracy when we live in an Imperial system.

ANTONIO GRAMSCI, who helped popularize the term "hegemony," wrote in 1925, "A main obstacle to change is the reproduction by the dominating forces of elements of the hegemonic ideology. It’s an important and urgent task to develop alternative interpretations of reality."

[AnakinFlair]

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...-Michael-Flynn



God damn. o.o

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-senate-...makers-1644308

Flynn absolutely should be in prison.

Yeah, it's definitely wrong to blame him when it's possible that the investigation will show he wasn't at fault.

With the John Wick series and any movies that have close quarter gun combat (which looks cool on film, but is unrealistic) the armorers basically created fake guns.

https://www.cracked.com/personal-exp...y-not-die.html

In the 1790s, Jedidiah Morse, a congregational minister in Charlestown, MA, and well-known author of geography textbooks, drew national attention by suggesting that a secret organization called the Bavarian Illuminati was at work “to root out and abolish Christianity, and overturn all civil government.” He got John Jay and Timothy Dwight and other members of the Federalist Party to help propagate this idea of the Illuminati were pervasive & in all Democratic-Republican societies. They used certain hand signs to show they "belonged" and printed their own news. Eventually, Morse’s accusations against Democratic-Republican societies were unable to withstand the weight of evidence and he stopped talking about the Illuminati. Within two decades the Federalist Party not only shrank from influence, but was totally gone.

Sound familiar? They say history rhymes at times ...

Can we just skip to the end?

[babyblob]

I used to laugh at people like that with the stolen election talk. But then the 6th happened and all the crap after. Man 2024 is going to be very rough.

We as a country are just lucky all of those idiots who carried assault riffles and zip ties while yelling Hang Mike Pence in their "Peaceful protest." were so busy posing for cameras and photos for their Facebook to really take advantage of the situation they were in. Im worried if the GOP nominee does not win in 2024 and such a thing happens again there will be real damage done if anyone who organizes another protest had a lick of sense and know what they are doing.

I am also worried if the GOP hold the Senate and the GOP nominee loses that they will refuse to certify the election, I dont know what will happen with that.