All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[achilles]

I am a bit confused; none of the news accounts I've read really helps---what passed exactly, how "passed" is it, in other words, is it now law, or does it have to pass something else for that to happen? And what exactly is in whatever passed?

[Gray Lensman]

I am a bit confused; none of the news accounts I've read really helps---what passed exactly, how "passed" is it, in other words, is it now law, or does it have to pass something else for that to happen? And what exactly is in whatever passed?

I think the first bill - the hard infrastructure that had already passed the senate and was being held hostage as leverage over Manchin and Sinema - is the one that passed the House. If so, all it needs to do is get Biden's signature.

Any leverage progressives thought they had evaporated with the election, as it merely convinced Manchin he was right all along.

[JCAll]

I think the first bill - the hard infrastructure that had already passed the senate and was being held hostage as leverage over Manchin and Sinema - is the one that passed the House. If so, all it needs to do is get Biden's signature.

Any leverage progressives thought they had evaporated with the election, as it merely convinced Manchin he was right all along.

I think the idea that they had any leverage against him at all turned out to have always been an illusion.
I suppose you can't really use an all or nothing strategy against someone for whom "nothing" is a perfectly acceptable outcome.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

From what Biden promised he plans to keep pushing to get the $1.75 trillion one done by the 15th of November. To get the Senate to approve it.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I think the idea that they had any leverage against him at all turned out to have always been an illusion.
I suppose you can't really use an all or nothing strategy against someone for whom "nothing" is a perfectly acceptable outcome.

I tried explaining this to a friend who was busy blasting Biden for not doing enough to get that bill through Manchin. Like...uhh how ? I explained how Manchin literally said he was fine with passing nothing. Yet he's like...Joe needs to do more. Its hard to tell someone who doesn't seem to understand that Congress doesn't work the way they believe.

[Gray Lensman]

I think the idea that they had any leverage against him at all turned out to have always been an illusion.
I suppose you can't really use an all or nothing strategy against someone for whom "nothing" is a perfectly acceptable outcome.

I agree with you, it's just that the election results finally shattered that illusion. Part of the reason Democrats didn't perform as well as they had hoped was that they haven't really delivered anything yet. Thankfully they got that lesson in 2021 and not 2022.

[numberthirty]

Pfft! The only thing infrastructure meant to The Former Guy was building casinos and/or his goddamned border wall.

Tend to agree.

The "Infrastructure..." equivalent of those goofy border wall construction photo ops is about as far as I'd bet Trump was ever interested in infrastructure.

[Mister Mets]

Interesting alternate history thought exercise. What if Mitt Romney had won the presidency 2012?
Pros: Trumpism might not have happened in the way it did.
Cons: America first Black President would have been a one term president and all that entails.

Interesting question.

There would not be room for Trump since part of his appeal was the idea that Republicans needed someone willing to fight to win the White House (rather than parties naturally losing power after two terms.)

There might be a political movement for Obama to make a comeback. He has always been popular among the Democratic base. Sanders might've been more appealing to primary voters if they felt the party lost by not going far enough, although the 2016 primary would likely be much more crowded.

Romney would've been a standard Republican, except with more managerial competence than Trump.

[numberthirty]

I tried explaining this to a friend who was busy blasting Biden for not doing enough to get that bill through Manchin. Like...uhh how ? I explained how Manchin literally said he was fine with passing nothing. Yet he's like...Joe needs to do more. Its hard to tell someone who doesn't seem to understand that Congress doesn't work the way they believe.

You do realize that the above makes a case for that this...

From what Biden promised he plans to keep pushing to get the $1.75 trillion one done by the 15th of November. To get the Senate to approve it.

Might not be going anywhere, right?

[Mister Mets]

I mean, here's the list...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/polit...ned/index.html

Why were some progressives opposed to this?

After the loss in 2016, the "Clinton Camp" was de-powered and removed from the DNC.

That was a big news story.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...s-2016-215774/
https://www.npr.org/2017/11/03/56197...th-dnc-in-2015

The level of control the Clinton campaign had over the DNC, prior to the 2016 primary, is kinda nuts.

[numberthirty]

Why were some progressives opposed to this?

...

Who said they were opposed to it?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I agree with you, it's just that the election results finally shattered that illusion.

I would say they have traded one illusion for another.

Part of the reason Democrats didn't perform as well as they had hoped was that they haven't really delivered anything yet.

They delivered the American Rescue Plan, they brought home all US Soldiers from Afghanistan allowing their families to spend thanksgiving without the dread of their loved ones being killed out there.

They did pass stuff but they let the media decide and dominate the narrative.

Thankfully they got that lesson in 2021 and not 2022.

Well in 2022 they have the stigma of broken promises now that Build Back Better is effectively dead.

Either it passes in the house and gets stacked in the Senate or Manchin and Sinema vote against anyway.

This was an utterly knee-jerk response and it's effectively useless politically. For it to matter, they ought to have passed it before the election. Passing it a few days after Virginia is stupid because there's literally no political capital to be drawn from this. This bill is going to always be tied to Virginia's defeat. And without BBB they won't have any other accomplishments to tout leading up to the Midterms.

[Gray Lensman]

I would say they have traded one illusion for another.



They delivered the American Rescue Plan, they brought home all US Soldiers from Afghanistan allowing their families to spend thanksgiving without the dread of their loved ones being killed out there.

They did pass stuff but they let the media decide and dominate the narrative.



Well in 2022 they have the stigma of broken promises now that Build Back Better is effectively dead.

Either it passes in the house and gets stacked in the Senate or Manchin and Sinema vote against anyway.

This was an utterly knee-jerk response and it's effectively useless politically. For it to matter, they ought to have passed it before the election. Passing it a few days after Virginia is stupid because there's literally no political capital to be drawn from this. This bill is going to always be tied to Virginia's defeat. And without BBB they won't have any other accomplishments to tout leading up to the Midterms.

Whether or not they have anything they can tout for the midterms may depend on how fast they can roll the stuff they do have out to the public. If people can see stuff being built and repaired, they won't care whether or not it passed last week, last year, or last decade - just that they are seeing it NOW.

[numberthirty]

Whether or not they have anything they can tout for the midterms may depend on how fast they can roll the stuff they do have out to the public. If people can see stuff being built and repaired, they won't care whether or not it passed last week, last year, or last decade - just that they are seeing it NOW.

(Assumes folks backed Biden even largely for infrastructure...)

[numberthirty]

Which ain't exactly a safe assumption.

Those folks that did not?

If you not only do not deliver BBB with a bunch of the worthwhile stuff hacked off but do not deliver it at all?

All of the infrastructure in the world might not make that right with those folks.