All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[WestPhillyPunisher]

As Kyle Rittenhouse trial nears end, judge’s decisions from the bench come under scrutiny

One can only hope the jury won’t be swayed by the nonsense from the bench and focus more on the facts of the trial and the case against Rittenhouse.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Based on what I’ve seen, Rittenhouse is getting off. Burden is on the prosecution and there is more than enough reasonable points to find self defense

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Its sad but the same situations we have seen play out with...

George Zimmerman for years after.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...icle-1.3990414


Ethan Couch

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/02/us/et...ion/index.html



We should know how this will go down with Rittenhouse. This judge will let him go free and then later as this guy does things like the ones listed the people will act like they don't exist. Its how those who let Zimmerman go .

Issue with these self defense cases are that if one person does something that provoked a conflict, unless they did something life threatening, they are given the leeway to defend themselves if they feel there life is in danger

[Mister Mets]

As noted this is just a knock down to official oversight when the main fact that thousands in a state are not qualified. Fake gotya. It is why California resists auditing its rolls for citizenship to leave as many people in the system regardless of qualification.

Thousands of false positives doesn't mean thousands aren't qualified to vote. It means thousands of people who are qualified to vote are flagged incorrectly.

A caricature of Republican election policy is that conservatives try to make it hard for people who are legally entitled to vote to do so. You seem to be hinting that this is both the intent of election policy, and a worthwhile objective.

Watching NBC and they reported that a judge late last night ruled against Trump and that the documents relating to the 6th must be turned over. Of course Trump is going to appeal this. The man and party with nothing to hide and want nothing more then the truth to come out are doing everything they can to keep everything hidden. Wonder why?

There are a few assumptions here. The implication is that if there's any stonewalling, they're trying to hide evidence that would result in felony convictions, when there are other factors in play. There can be a concern that people will use this as a fishing expedition, or exaggerate what they find.

Last week there was the fiasco with some Lincoln Project people trying to do a stung parodying Charlottesville inspired supporters by Youngkin. The Lincoln Project people figured the stunt was obvious. For god's sakes, one of the white supremacists was black. But progressive activists started thinking it was real, which led to a backlash against McAuliffe and his campaign because it seemed like the Lincoln Project people were trying to frame Youngkin.

https://theintercept.com/2021/11/03/...lenn-youngkin/

When there are progressives out there with a warped sense of the world, there's an argument for any conservatives to be careful about the release of information, since it may lead to time-consuming freakouts that will be covered by the media.

Granted, the main reason people who are innocent might be wary of investigations is the likelihood that it will expose things that are legal but embarrassing.

[Mister Mets]

By this logic OJ Simpson was not guilty or a criminal. Hey you are allowed but what I am being asked to address extends beyond a courtroom even if courtrooms are the tools of the scam.

Could the large number of cases have anything to do with perpetuating this Steal. I have said from the outset that this is as much about overwhelming as it is bogging down with details challenges to the integrity of the systems that add up to the overall system. What are we at 55+ cases of various quality? btw I have made case points to other posters but I am only one person and should underscore the idea of overwhelming the citizen POV.

a process that broke down in the Covid emergency rule making which was part of some of the suits brought, and hand waved away by judges.


Yes, it is important only in that encompass all of justice being legal and lawful and not use the letter of the law to shut down challenges to the system which isn't a partisan issue particularly but a self serving one none the less. This is part of the argument in the necessary role of juries to check the power of the system itself by having interests outside of the ruling classes. That is why this vile use of law is so offensive because it is a cynical use of power to justify its use of legal standing as power. It does provoke questions about the further utility of such a system when it is so used.

The OJ Simpson metaphor doesn't quite work. The murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman was illegal. Simpson was tried in a court of law. The decision was that he wasn't found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It can be hard to accept, but in American law if someone probably committed a crime, but the jury thinks there's a small but reasonable chance he may be innocent, that person is supposed to go free. It doesn't mean the crime was suddenly legal.

We'll likely see people making different arguments about this with the Rittenhouse case.

You're not providing any evidence that the election cases are legitimate. A large number of cases could come from several reasons, including nutcases and opportunists responding to something that's popular in one corner of the media. A left-wing equivalent is the multiple objectively debunked claims against Kavanaugh.

I get the idea that too much information is overwhelming. Rhetorically, it's similar to the gish gallop, a strategy in a debate of using multiple BS examples to waste an opponent's time. But this is what can happen if someone's in the wrong. There will just be a lot of evidence on the other side. If I took a really stupid position (cigarettes are healthy, minors will benefit from the use of hard drugs, city streets should have the same speed limits as the autobahn, Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana is really former President John F Kennedy in disguise) there will be overwhelming amounts of evidence to the contrary, which will happen when someone is very, very wrong.

To save time, instead of looking at 55 cases, look at one. If it's not able to demonstrate enough voter fraud to swing the results in a particular state, you can just figure that the other 54 cases won't be able to do the same (and if any of them could, we would probably hear about it from Fox News and/ or some Republican state Attorney General.) The idea that everyone has to look at every case is itself a version of the gish gallop fallacy.

There are multiple arguments that could be made about the Covid emergency regulations. It's not anyone else's job to make your argument for you. As a reasonably informed adult, you should be aware that others will treat the implications of laws and procedures differently than you will, so make it clear what your view is so that people can understand where you're coming from.

Some stuff isn't going to be resolved by a jury trial. Judges can be correct to rule that a lawsuit is against the wrong individual, or that someone making a claim has failed to present the evidence, in which case the evidence isn't good enough for a jury to evaluate. Especially in something politically loaded, it would be catastrophically bad if judges bring baseless claims to juries. I am pretty sure there are juries in San Francisco and Burlington who would be happy to find Donald Trump guilty of felonies, regardless of the facts of the specific case. The implication that everything should go to a jury is an invitation to mob rule.

[JB]

Based on what I’ve seen, Rittenhouse is getting off. Burden is on the prosecution and there is more than enough reasonable points to find self defense

The prosecution's star witness yesterday ended up being a disaster for them. I think you're right.

[Xheight]

Thousands of false positives doesn't mean thousands aren't qualified to vote. It means thousands of people who are qualified to vote are flagged incorrectly.

A caricature of Republican election policy is that conservatives try to make it hard for people who are legally entitled to vote to do so. You seem to be hinting that this is both the intent of election policy, and a worthwhile objective.

There are a few assumptions here. The implication is that if there's any stonewalling, they're trying to hide evidence that would result in felony convictions, when there are other factors in play. There can be a concern that people will use this as a fishing expedition, or exaggerate what they find.

Last week there was the fiasco with some Lincoln Project people trying to do a stung parodying Charlottesville inspired supporters by Youngkin. The Lincoln Project people figured the stunt was obvious. For god's sakes, one of the white supremacists was black. But progressive activists started thinking it was real, which led to a backlash against McAuliffe and his campaign because it seemed like the Lincoln Project people were trying to frame Youngkin.

https://theintercept.com/2021/11/03/...lenn-youngkin/

When there are progressives out there with a warped sense of the world, there's an argument for any conservatives to be careful about the release of information, since it may lead to time-consuming freakouts that will be covered by the media.

Granted, the main reason people who are innocent might be wary of investigations is the likelihood that it will expose things that are legal but embarrassing.

Distorting what I have said - okay false positives happen but even more unqualified are caught that says nothing about making it harder to vote as the qualified but stricken can reapply if they really give a hoot about voting - if ballots can be cured then why not registrations? Have not checked but some states allow day of registration.

5th column actions can always go wrong or just be exposed and undermine any movement. We have seen this with rogue GOPers trying to "prove" that faking ballots can be done only to find themselves snared.

[Jack Dracula]

As noted this is just a knock down to official oversight when the main fact that thousands in a state are not qualified. Fake gotya. It is why California resists auditing its rolls for citizenship to leave as many people in the system regardless of qualification.

You know, wearing people down until they quit because they're just tired of dealing with your nonsense isn't actually winning an argument.

[babyblob]

Based on what I’ve seen, Rittenhouse is getting off. Burden is on the prosecution and there is more than enough reasonable points to find self defense

To be honest I think he will get off as well. or there will be a hung jury. And if either of those happens I would pack my bags and get out of that town if I lived there because I have a feeling it will get crazy.

[Gray Lensman]

You know, wearing people down until they quit because they're just tired of dealing with your crazy isn't actually winning an argument.

The only reaction his wall o spam has been getting from me recently is this...

[Robotman]

Based on what I’ve seen, Rittenhouse is getting off. Burden is on the prosecution and there is more than enough reasonable points to find self defense

When the judge wouldn’t allow the prosecution to use the word “victims” you just knew where this was heading. Now he gets pissed at them for being mean to poor little Kyle when he was on the stand.

Rittenhouse will be paraded through the streets on the shoulders of Proud Boys and Klan members in no time.

[Panfoot]

When the judge wouldn’t allow the prosecution to use the word “victims” you just knew where this was heading. Now he gets pissed at them for being mean to poor little Kyle when he was on the stand.

Rittenhouse will be paraded through the streets on the shoulders of Proud Boys and Klan members in no time.

I'm sure he'll even get a good speech in at the 2022 RNC convention.

[babyblob]

When the judge wouldn’t allow the prosecution to use the word “victims” you just knew where this was heading. Now he gets pissed at them for being mean to poor little Kyle when he was on the stand.

Rittenhouse will be paraded through the streets on the shoulders of Proud Boys and Klan members in no time.

This little ass wipe did just what he set out to do. he got himself a gun and killed a couple people. Yea they say self defense. But it doesnt matter how the night went or how anyone else acted Rittenhouse was going to kill someone because that is what he wanted. he wanted to be a hero to the right and defend this country from the lawless mob. That dude was always going to kill someone. Now he is being handed an acquittal from the judge and he will be the next big GOP Star. Like Panfoot said a speech at the RNC and im sure he will be on someone's ballot when he gets old enough. Or if not on the ticket himself in 2022 watch how many candidates he stumps for.

[numberthirty]

When the judge wouldn’t allow the prosecution to use the word “victims” you just knew where this was heading. Now he gets pissed at them for being mean to poor little Kyle when he was on the stand.

Rittenhouse will be paraded through the streets on the shoulders of Proud Boys and Klan members in no time.

Towards someone being able to get a reasonably fair chance at a "Self-Defense..." defense?

[Tendrin]

news to give WBE heartburn.

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/11...-general-2022/

U.S. Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Tyler, is exploring a run for Texas attorney general, weighing a late entry into the already crowded primary to unseat GOP incumbent Ken Paxton. Gohmert said he will run if he can raise $1 million in the next 10 days.

He announced his plans during an event Tuesday morning in Tyler that was surrounded by confusion. He had been set to make a "very important" campaign announcement there, and while a live broadcast of the announcement did not work, a website surfaced around the same time that claimed he was making an "exploratory" effort in the race. The Texas Ethics Commission said afterward that it received a new campaign treasurer appointment from Gohmert for an attorney general run, one of the first formal steps someone has to take to vie for state office.

According to video of the event, Gohmert repeatedly warned that Paxton's legal problems could jeopardize the attorney general position for Republicans in November.