All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Man who raped four teenagers gets no jail time, judge says: ‘Incarceration isn’t appropriate’

What the .... huh?

From another article one person said it best , this is white rich privilege at its best.

[JackDaw]

The Azeem Rafiq case (in which he complained about long ongoing racist treatment by Yorkshire cricket club) has triggered a great deal of debate in UK.

One thing that I think discussing the case has brought home to me is how 10 years ago, certainly 20 years, really insulting racial epithets were used in my social circle (sadly I occasionally used some myself back in my youth).

Imagine a public figure takes the same line I do “Yes, I did that. It was stupid and wrong, and, of course I regret doing it”….to what extent should we forgive and forget? Should say…a sports broadcaster who used unacceptable language a dozen years ago, lose his job today?

[Malvolio]

This has to be one of the funniest clips ever.

Fox news is so determined to talk about stuff they don't like that they start to play themselves.

As I said on another thread, at first, I thought that "You" was a dumb name for a TV show, but if it can turn Laura Ingraham's show into an Abbott and Costello routine, then it's all worth it.

[Scott Taylor]

Imagine a public figure takes the same line I do “Yes, I did that. It was stupid and wrong, and, of course I regret doing it”….to what extent should we forgive and forget? Should say…a sports broadcaster who used unacceptable language a dozen years ago, lose his job today?

Yes. It was still wrong and only done by a small minority of people 20 years ago. Just because something is more acceptable because white privilege said "ah he's an old fart, they just think that way" doesn't mean it was right morally or didn't hurt anyone.

[Jack Dracula]

Hey he is one of them. he held a bible that didnt belong to him upside down in front of a church he didnt go to.

Sadly, that’s all it really takes for some of them.

[kidfresh512]

Yes. It was still wrong and only done by a small minority of people 20 years ago. Just because something is more acceptable because white privilege said "ah he's an old fart, they just think that way" doesn't mean it was right morally or didn't hurt anyone.

Exactly. Just because they got away with it when they did it/said it, doesn't mean they get a pass forever.

Now I have read and seen stories of say ex white supremacists who were born into that life families, communities etc. Then grew up and reformed and tried to make a conscious effort to educate or mentor others. I think there is forgiveness when you see genuine sorrow and effort to make amends. Not just these trite PR "apologies", or that was years ago I changed excuses. Everyone does that when they finally get caught.


Biden asks FTC to investigate oil and gas companies

President Joe Biden on Wednesday asked Federal Trade Commission Chair Lina Khan to examine oil and gas companies and their role in rising gasoline prices.

Citing “potentially illegal conduct,” Biden said pump prices are rising even as industry costs are declining.

Glad I'm on vacation. Industry meetings will be awful with the seething hatred

[JackDaw]

Yes. It was still wrong and only done by a small minority of people 20 years ago. Just because something is more acceptable because white privilege said "ah he's an old fart, they just think that way" doesn't mean it was right morally or didn't hurt anyone.

Not arguing for a second that it was right.

What I was saying was 20 years ago it was fairly widespread in my social circle. In recent years…say at least the last half dozen it’s become very rare…the large majority of people have changed for the better.

So the question is: should a reformed sinner lose his job today for something done long ago? Would it serve any useful purpose?

Interested in your view that only a small minority of people transgressed in this way 20 years ago. I actually talked back then in “relaxed environments” (i.e. places of heavy drinking) with a wide variety of people…business execs, academics, union officials, etc and my experience was that it was widespread in UK society. Was US society 20 years ago massively different in this regard?

[kidfresh512]

Sinema speaks up — and shakes off her critics

Watch the Senate floor enough and you'll notice Sen. Kyrsten Sinema regularly chatting with Mitch McConnell and his top deputy John Thune. Republicans have even tried to recruit her to their conference, and throw the Senate to the GOP.
Don't worry though, Democrats: Sinema's not becoming a Republican."No. Why would I do that?" the moderate Arizonan says in her trademark deadpan.


Thune, the GOP whip, wishes it were otherwise, confirming in an interview he’s pressed Sinema to join his party multiple times. But Sinema’s goal in an evenly split Senate isn’t to toss away Democrats' majority, despite enduring months of criticism from progressives on her policy positions, rock-solid protection of the filibuster and yes, even her fashion choices.

In a 35-minute interview in her miniature, pink-hued Capitol hideaway office, Sinema dressed down Democratic leadership for setting expectations too high. She also defended the right of her critics to protest her, but not to follow her into a bathroom and “unfairly and illegally” victimize the students she teaches at Arizona State. Sinema also revealed why she’s constantly spotted on the floor chatting with GOP leader McConnell: “He has a dry sense of humor. It's underrated.”

I can see why she rarely explains herself to her constituents and the public at large from her commentary here. If she were really interested in getting things done. Her explaining herself and not being flippant and dismissive of the very real concerns people have of all her stonewalling causing real harm to Democrats chances in midterms etc.

[BeastieRunner]

Not arguing for a second that it was right.

What I was saying was 20 years ago it was fairly widespread in my social circle. In recent years…say at least the last half dozen it’s become very rare…the large majority of people have changed for the better.

So the question is: should a reformed sinner lose his job today for something done long ago? Would it serve any useful purpose?

Interested in your view that only a small minority of people transgressed in this way 20 years ago. I actually talked back then in “relaxed environments” (i.e. places of heavy drinking) with a wide variety of people…business execs, academics, union officials, etc and my experience was that it was widespread in UK society. Was US society 20 years ago massively different in this regard?

More homophobic and "gay panic" slurs than racial slurs. Racial slurs tend to be used with "in" groups than at the bar. Mid-90s to late 2000s the homophobic stuff was the norm.

Now my spouse is a Southern belle and grew up with lots of racial slurs that she had no idea where racist until she went away to school (things like gypped, jewed being the tamer ones). It made her pretty angry with her family.

[Scott Taylor]

Not arguing for a second that it was right.

What I was saying was 20 years ago it was fairly widespread in my social circle. In recent years…say at least the last half dozen it’s become very rare…the large majority of people have changed for the better.

So the question is: should a reformed sinner lose his job today for something done long ago? Would it serve any useful purpose?

Interested in your view that only a small minority of people transgressed in this way 20 years ago. I actually talked back then in “relaxed environments” (i.e. places of heavy drinking) with a wide variety of people…business execs, academics, union officials, etc and my experience was that it was widespread in UK society. Was US society 20 years ago massively different in this regard?

Well I can't speak for the entire US, but only for my circle and for general society here in California where I live. The key element is that of "relaxed environments" - people wouldn't have been saying racially insensitive things out in the open, other than a small minority. To me, that means that only a small minority thought it was ok and the rest, the ones doing it behind closed doors, knew very well that it was wrong. I can't say what people were doing in secret, or how many, because it was in secret!

In my own social circles, I'm sure we said some racially insensitive things from time to time. But I distinctly remember hearing the n-word from other kids (very seldom) and how jarring and wrong it sounded. That's what I am talking about - brazen use of it, which means you don't think its wrong. Its like my grandparents, who used the word "colored" to talk about black people. When they were growing up in the 1910s and 1920s, it seems like that was fairly common. But when I heard them say it as a kid, it was cringe to me. Like someone took a crayon to some people or something. And I am pretty sure they didn't think it was wrong.

If you and your circle were doing it only behind closed doors, wouldn't you agree that you knew it was wrong to do?

[kidfresh512]

More homophobic and "gay panic" slurs than racial slurs. Racial slurs tend to be used with "in" groups than at the bar. Mid-90s to late 2000s the homophobic stuff was the norm.

Now my spouse is a Southern belle and grew up with lots of racial slurs that she had no idea where racist until she went away to school (things like gypped, jewed being the tamer ones). It made her pretty angry with her family.

And this is the exact reason you see this hatred for higher education "indoctrinating people". When in reality is you break out of the small little world you grew up in and actually meet diverse people from different backgrounds. And learn about their stories, their lives, and interact with them on a human level. That tends to change and open up perspective.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Man who raped four teenagers gets no jail time, judge says: ‘Incarceration isn’t appropriate’

What the .... huh?

Well, of course that scumbag were white, thus the judge having “prayed for guidance”. If Belter were black, that same judge would’ve sentenced him to life in prison.

[JackDaw]

If you and your circle were doing it only behind closed doors, wouldn't you agree that you knew it was wrong to do?

That is a good question.

And a difficult one, because it requires me to get into my “mindset” of the person I was many years ago…and frankly a lot of stuff I did back then baffle me now. My driving bordered on the suicidal for example. (I am profoundly grateful I never badly injured anybody.)

But no…I don’t think we did realise it was wrong.

I think the best way of explaining it was that it was like swearing…of course, you didn’t swear in front of children, but when drinking late at among friends many people tended to use bad language.

And certainly many people back then using racially charged language would vehemently deny being racist…the business guys, for example, would insist that “I always hire the best person for the job”. The attitude was “it’s just banter”.

[Xheight]

Well, of course that scumbag were white, thus the judge having “prayed for guidance”. If Belter were black, that same judge would’ve sentenced him to life in prison.

maybe the Judge was reading the latest issue of the Jacobin

Marie Gottschalk

The African American incarceration rate of about 3,000 per 100,000 people is clearly off the charts and a shocking figure. Focusing so intently on these racial disparities often obscures the fact that the incarceration rates for other groups in the United States, including white people and Latinos, are also very high — just not astronomically high, as in the case of African Americans.

The white incarceration rate in the United States is about 600 per 100,000 — for a black-to-white ratio of about five to one. This is about four to fifteen times the national incarceration rates for Japan and the countries of Western Europe.

[Scott Taylor]

That is a good question.

And a difficult one, because it requires me to get into my “mindset” of the person I was many years ago…and frankly a lot of stuff I did back then baffle me now. My driving bordered on the suicidal for example. (I am profoundly grateful I never badly injured anybody.)

But no…I don’t think we did realise it was wrong.

I think the best way of explaining it was that it was like swearing…of course, you didn’t swear in front of children, but when drinking late at among friends many people tended to use bad language.

And certainly many people back then using racially charged language would vehemently deny being racist…the business guys, for example, would insist that “I always hire the best person for the job”. The attitude was “it’s just banter”.

Thanks for the candor. I think I knew what I was doing was wrong, but not all of it felt wrong. That business guy thing is so true, there was certainly an attitude of "well it couldn't be me, I'm not racist" from a lot of people.