All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Tami]

Ray Ciccarelli leaving NASCAR after sport banned Confederate flag at its events

"I could care less about the Confederate Flag but there are ppl that do and it doesn't make them a racist," Ray Ciccarelli said.

[sammy_hansen]

Ray Ciccarelli leaving NASCAR after sport banned Confederate flag at its events

They’re not racist, just pro-slavery!

[sammy_hansen]

"Black man pulled over and issued a warning for doing 65 in a 70"



This is how they do it -- they did the same with me for fake bike light/tail light/loitering tickets and have handcuffed me just for "fitting the profile".

Same with my cousin -- they pulled him over and asked him where he was going and when he answered that he was going to see his rabbi, they called his rabbi to confirm that he was going there and then still gave him a ticket afterwards.

The cops also beat one of my other cousins to the point where he had to recover at his mother's house for weeks (no health care) -- that's something that always comes to mind anytime I see a police officer in the general vicinity.

People don't believe these stories until we get them on video -- pathetic that black people have to repeatedly prove we are the victims of racism when the evidence is already out there for anyone who cares to look at it.

But it was Derek Chauvin who made cops look bad...

I really feel for you man. I will never know what it’s like to be in your shoes but I’m right behind you. Still shocks me that people on this board continually brush off the facts of systemic racism.

[BeastieRunner]

Ray Ciccarelli leaving NASCAR after sport banned Confederate flag at its events

They’re not racist, just pro-slavery!

Not racist is not good enough.

We need to be anti-racist and stamp out the behaviors AND symbols of oppression & racism.

[aja_christopher]

But it was Derek Chauvin who made cops look bad...

I really feel for you man. I will never know what it’s like to be in your shoes but I’m right behind you. Still shocks me that people on this board continually brush off the facts of systemic racism.

While words of sympathy are appreciated I think what most black people would really like to see is legislation that addresses this problem directly.

Obama already made the attempt to enact said legislation and many (white) voters supported Trump's promise to roll said legislation back.

Removing the Republican party from power for a generation or so would go a long way towards addressing said systemic racism.

A party that chooses to benefit from racism has no real interest in ending it.

[InformationGeek]

So that Trump Rally... looks like Trump is trying to cover his ass.

A warning is now included when you sign up for Trump rally tickets: "By attending the Rally, you & any guests voluntarily assume all risks related to exposure to COVID-19 & agree not to hold Donald J. Trump for President, Inc.; BOK Center; ASM Global; or any of affiliates..."

[Electricmastro]

They’re not racist, just pro-slavery!

Wanted to chime in academically. Keeping in mind how then main motivations behind the flag were slavery, money from the cotton industry, and racist-based scapegoating of blacks, two statements I’ve said about the flag that make me think:

1.The idea that symbols can change their meaning/have different interpretations from personal points of view over time.

I recall stories of family members putting the flag in their house claiming that their ancestors fought in the Civil War for personal reasons such as as patriotism, Christianity, family, the safety of one’s hometown, etc. and rejected Jefferson Davis’ desires in favor of their own, reasoning that every Confederate soldiers’ reasons weren’t exactly the same as Jefferson Davis’.
James McPherson similarly talked about this for example:
http://personal.tcu.edu/swoodworth/McPherson-FCAC.htm
And conversely, perhaps the same could be said of Union soldiers who personally didn’t care to fight for Abraham Lincoln’s desire to get rid of slavery in favor of fighting for their own reasons.
At that point, I’d still strongly advise family members hang up the 50 star American flag, since many good soldiers have fought in the name of Christianity, preservation of their hometown, etc. anyway, but if there are still family members out there who want to hang up the Confederate flag inside their own house, not because of slavery, but because our of the conviction that their Confederate ancestors personally fought in the name of Christianity, then at that point, I’ll leave that up to all of you to decide if their houses should still be gone into to take their flags down, and that they should be banned from doing so.

2.The idea of turning a negative into a positive.

I’ve also heard a statement made of turning something negative and turning into a positive. In that in a similar way many black people today use the n-word, a word racists used to demean black people, including slaveowners back in the day, to refer to each other in a friendly manner, I’ve seen the suggestion made that the Confederate flag be a negative turned into a positive in the sense of directly using history as not only a shocking reminder, but as an opportunity to use that shock to encourage people to build bridges together. A reverse of that would probably be how the Asian manji, a symbol used for good luck and good fortunes, was taken by the Nazi fascists and perverted into a swastika. I suppose while condemn the current Mississippi flag, others could possibly take the opportunity to use that as turning a negative into a positive, and that, again, whereas some black people use the n-word to refer to each other friendly, some groups like Black Lives Matter could attempt to turn a negative into a positive as well by using the Confederate flag as a reminder about why we all should band together as human beings who should respect each other as equals working towards a greater good, though indeed, that’s not quite how quite a number of Confederate flag wavers are going about it at the same time.
So yes, interesting statements I’ve heard be suggested, and in any event, referring to the numerous people out there, such as on Reddit, whom angrily condemn against the display of the Confederate flag to the point that they feel something should be done about the flags displayers, such as arresting them for being traitors and such, as simply expecting them not to doesn’t seem to be enough, then in that case, I feel compelled to say that I hope you all work to the best of your ability in putting the bad people away so that the innocent people will stay safe, and after the bad people are put away, as mentioned before, that we continue to have increasing respect for each other as equals with less prejudice and more communities in our society genuinely worthy of respect.

[PwrdOn]

Wanted to chime in academically. Keeping in mind how then main motivations behind the flag were slavery, money from the cotton industry, and racist-based scapegoating of blacks, two statements I’ve said about the flag that make me think:

1.The idea that symbols can change their meaning/have different interpretations from personal points of view over time.

I recall stories of family members putting the flag in their house claiming that their ancestors fought in the Civil War for personal reasons such as as patriotism, Christianity, family, the safety of one’s hometown, etc. and rejected Jefferson Davis’ desires in favor of their own, reasoning that every Confederate soldiers’ reasons weren’t exactly the same as Jefferson Davis’.
James McPherson similarly talked about this for example:
http://personal.tcu.edu/swoodworth/McPherson-FCAC.htm
And conversely, perhaps the same could be said of Union soldiers who personally didn’t care to fight for Abraham Lincoln’s desire to get rid of slavery in favor of fighting for their own reasons.
At that point, I’d still strongly advise family members hang up the 50 star American flag, since many good soldiers have fought in the name of Christianity, preservation of their hometown, etc. anyway, but if there are still family members out there who want to hang up the Confederate flag inside their own house, not because of slavery, but because our of the conviction that their Confederate ancestors personally fought in the name of Christianity, then at that point, I’ll leave that up to all of you to decide if their houses should still be gone into to take their flags down, and that they should be banned from doing so.

2.The idea of turning a negative into a positive.

I’ve also heard a statement made of turning something negative and turning into a positive. In that in a similar way many black people today use the n-word, a word racists used to demean black people, including slaveowners back in the day, to refer to each other in a friendly manner, I’ve seen the suggestion made that the Confederate flag be a negative turned into a positive in the sense of directly using history as not only a shocking reminder, but as an opportunity to use that shock to encourage people to build bridges together. A reverse of that would probably be how the Asian manji, a symbol used for good luck and good fortunes, was taken by the Nazi fascists and perverted into a swastika. I suppose while condemn the current Mississippi flag, others could possibly take the opportunity to use that as turning a negative into a positive, and that, again, whereas some black people use the n-word to refer to each other friendly, some groups like Black Lives Matter could attempt to turn a negative into a positive as well by using the Confederate flag as a reminder about why we all should band together as human beings who should respect each other as equals working towards a greater good, though indeed, that’s not quite how quite a number of Confederate flag wavers are going about it at the same time.
So yes, interesting statements I’ve heard be suggested, and in any event, referring to the numerous people out there, such as on Reddit, whom angrily condemn against the display of the Confederate flag to the point that they feel something should be done about the flags displayers, such as arresting them for being traitors and such, as simply expecting them not to doesn’t seem to be enough, then in that case, I feel compelled to say that I hope you all work to the best of your ability in putting the bad people away so that the innocent people will stay safe, and after the bad people are put away, as mentioned before, that we continue to have increasing respect for each other as equals with less prejudice and more communities in our society genuinely worthy of respect.

The problem with that, is that every one of the "positive" aspects you could possibly attribute to the Confederacy was directly linked to slavery. Yeah, they had a lot of fancy mansions and ladies in elegant dresses being wooed by dapper officers, but all of that was only possible because the exploitation of unpaid labor on a scale never before seen in history made it possible for a small class of plantation elites to live like royalty without ever having to work. And yeah, they had a lot of brilliant military commanders who executed some very daring maneuvers in famous battles, but it doesn't seem so cool when you remember that all of that fighting was done entirely for the sake of preserving slavery. Throughout the entirety of American history with all the peoples that have been exploited and oppressed and trampled upon by our government, the ONLY people that felt sufficiently aggrieved to start a full blown war over it were a bunch of slaveowners who felt that taking away their slaves was somehow going to turn THEM into slaves. This is not something that you can put a positive spin on.

[Electricmastro]

The problem with that, is that every one of the "positive" aspects you could possibly attribute to the Confederacy was directly linked to slavery. Yeah, they had a lot of fancy mansions and ladies in elegant dresses being wooed by dapper officers, but all of that was only possible because the exploitation of unpaid labor on a scale never before seen in history made it possible for a small class of plantation elites to live like royalty without ever having to work. And yeah, they had a lot of brilliant military commanders who executed some very daring maneuvers in famous battles, but it doesn't seem so cool when you remember that all of that fighting was done entirely for the sake of preserving slavery. Throughout the entirety of American history with all the peoples that have been exploited and oppressed and trampled upon by our government, the ONLY people that felt sufficiently aggrieved to start a full blown war over it were a bunch of slaveowners who felt that taking away their slaves was somehow going to turn THEM into slaves. This is not something that you can put a positive spin on.

Absolutely not putting a positive spin on it, but it’s interesting because there was a black man named William Ellison who actually supported the Confederate States of America despite having been a slave himself, and actually also owned slaves himself to the point of becoming very wealthy. Despite how much people like you and I abhor slavedriving, and how Ellison himself was dehumanized, he still chose to be a slaveowner after being freed seemingly because of wanting wealth, which goes back to how the Confederate South’s desire for slavery goes further back to a deeply rooted corrupt desire for money, even at the cost of dehumanizing others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ellison

[PwrdOn]

Absolutely not putting a positive spin on it, but it’s interesting because there was a black man named William Ellison who actually supported the Confederate States of America despite having been a slave himself, and actually also owned slaves himself to the point of becoming very wealthy. Despite how much people like you and I abhor slavedriving, and how Ellison himself was dehumanized, he still chose to be a slaveowner after being freed seemingly because of wanting wealth, which goes back to how the Confederate South’s desire for slavery goes further back to a deeply rooted corrupt desire for money, even at the cost of dehumanizing others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ellison

The fact that some free blacks owned slaves is not the gotcha that people think it is. Growing up in a society that prized slave ownership as the absolute measure of one's wealth and status, it's not surprising at all that some freemen would prioritize personal enrichment over the rather distant goal of emancipation, and that the tiny fraction with the means to do so would buy some slaves of their own in the hope of moving up the socioeconomic ladder. Arguably, the fact that there weren't MORE black slaveowners in the south goes to show you the lengths to which that society sought to maintain the racial hierarchy even when that conflicted with economic interests.

[Tami]

Ohio GOP state senator fired from ER doctor job after using racist language

CLEVELAND, Ohio – State Sen. Steve Huffman, a Dayton-area Republican, has been fired from his position as an emergency room doctor after using racist language to question whether people of color are disproportionately affected by the coronavirus because of poor hygiene.

During a Tuesday hearing on declaring racism a public health crisis, Huffman asked Angela Dawson, executive director of the Ohio Commission on Minority Health, if the “colored population” were more susceptible to coronavirus “because they do not wash their hands as well as other groups.” A statement from TeamHealth, a health professional contractor who employed Huffman as an emergency room physician, said Thursday that Huffman had been fired for his line of questioning during the hearing of the Senate Health Committee.

[Electricmastro]

Growing up in a society that prized slave ownership as the absolute measure of one's wealth and status, it's not surprising at all that some freemen would prioritize personal enrichment over the rather distant goal of emancipation, and that the tiny fraction with the means to do so would buy some slaves of their own in the hope of moving up the socioeconomic ladder.

Yep, quite a bad set of philosophies to expose kids to growing up in that time, suffice to say.

[PwrdOn]

Yep, quite a bad set of philosophies to expose kids to growing up in that time, suffice to say.

Well that's the "heritage" that all of those Confederate flag wavers are so keen to preserve. It's not to say that everyone living in the Confederacy was a bad person and incapable of doing good deeds, or that there aren't aspects of its culture that a sane individual might find appealing, it's just that the entire system was built on a rotten foundation and that it was inevitable that it would collapse when the one institution that made everything possible was abolished. The question we have to ask ourselves now is, is the same true for the entirety of the USA? If we were to somehow find a way to eliminate racism from our society entirely, would the country still persist?

[Electricmastro]

Well that's the "heritage" that all of those Confederate flag wavers are so keen to preserve. It's not to say that everyone living in the Confederacy was a bad person and incapable of doing good deeds, or that there aren't aspects of its culture that a sane individual might find appealing, it's just that the entire system was built on a rotten foundation and that it was inevitable that it would collapse when the one institution that made everything possible was abolished. The question we have to ask ourselves now is, is the same true for the entirety of the USA? If we were to somehow find a way to eliminate racism from our society entirely, would the country still persist?

Indeed, I suppose someone could just as easily condemn the modern 50 star American flag since the history of the flag was built on a slavery foundation, even if it’s not specific like how it’s specific with the Confederate flag, including how quite a number of the founding fathers were slaveowners as well even after the Declaration of Independence was signed.

I’ve always viewed the idea of eliminating racism, and all prejudice in general, as being quite a tale order to live up to. I don’t claim to know all the answers, but I suppose it would really have to do something the leaders of society and the courses of action they choose to take.

I’ve come to realize that it’s rare to find a leader with considerable power who’s always morally righteous and always holds themselves accountable, and isn’t swayed to be corrupted by perverse desires for money and the like. I suppose that finding more leaders who make it a life-long mission to be humanly and actively concerned for not just their fellow human beings, but also human beings with less power and money than themselves, would help shift the narrative of society into something more decent.

[BeastieRunner]

I was going to preface this with an apology but it would not be genuine.

You know ... Japan, Germany, Italy, former Austro-Hungaria, etc. don't engage in pseudo intellectual tête-à-tête normalizing and excusing racist and oppressive imagery and actions.

Stop making excuses. There is no reason to keep the Confederate flag.

There is no reason to name bases and other military assets after failed Confederate generals. Same goes for public monuments that aren't part of a museum. If they were really any good, they would've won the fucking war! They don't deserve anything more.

There's no reason to have Columbus statues when the whole world has known for decades, a) that he didn't really discover America, and b) he was an evil, evil man.

Just. Stop.

Not only are you minimizing the issue at hand, whether intentional or not, this is a very veiled conversation covering up racism.

No more excuses. All that participation trophy crap has got to go.

That flag, those names, those actions have been causing harm and continue to harm others. Sometimes you have to let the past go. The South has it's opportunity to rise and now it's time for it to rise up past its racist and oppressive past.

When you continue to have this veiled conversation around the guise of understanding, all you're doing is making others relive that harm.

Knock that shit off.