All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[PwrdOn]

I was going to preface this with an apology but it would not be genuine.

You know ... Japan, Germany, Italy, former Austro-Hungaria, etc. don't engage in pseudo intellectual tête-à-tête normalizing and excusing racist and oppressive imagery and actions.

Stop making excuses. There is no reason to keep the Confederate flag.

There is no reason to name bases and other military assets after failed Confederate generals. Same goes for public monuments that aren't part of a museum. If they were really any good, they would've won the fucking war! They don't deserve anything more.

There's no reason to have Columbus statues when the whole world has known for decades, a) that he didn't really discover America, and b) he was an evil, evil man.

Just. Stop.

Not only are you minimizing the issue at hand, whether intentional or not, this is a very veiled conversation covering up racism.

No more excuses. All that participation trophy crap has got to go.

That flag, those names, those actions have been causing harm and continue to harm others. Sometimes you have to let the past go. The South has it's opportunity to rise and now it's time for it to rise up past its racist and oppressive past.

Knock that shit off.

Eh that's not really true in the case of Japan though, they are generally pretty keen to push the message that they were the real victims of the war, with the bomb and all that, and denying all of the many atrocities their forces committed in the territories they occupied. Also, I'm not sure Austria-Hungary belongs on that list, as far as I'm aware they didn't commit any more egregious war crimes than any other WWI combatant, sure a lot of them ended up joining the Nazis 30 years later, but the empire is hardly to blame for that as it had long been broken up by then.

[Electricmastro]

Eh that's not really true in the case of Japan though, they are generally pretty keen to push the message that they were the real victims of the war, with the bomb and all that, and denying all of the many atrocities their forces committed in the territories they occupied.

Indeed, the importance of remembering how the atomic bombs killed many Japanese people doesn’t mean we should ignore Japan’s war crime that is Unit 731: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

[BeastieRunner]

Eh that's not really true in the case of Japan though, they are generally pretty keen to push the message that they were the real victims of the war, with the bomb and all that, and denying all of the many atrocities their forces committed in the territories they occupied. Also, I'm not sure Austria-Hungary belongs on that list, as far as I'm aware they didn't commit any more egregious war crimes than any other WWI combatant, sure a lot of them ended up joining the Nazis 30 years later, but the empire is hardly to blame for that as it had long been broken up by then.

Dude, I'm in Japan like every other month ... that is not true in the slightest. It was true prior to 9/11. The current generation and the older millennials are full of apologists. Get with the times!

The logic of not counting the the absorbed aspects of the Nazis is baffling to me. Should the South since nobody is alive from the Civil War then not share the blame since they've been gone for more than 100 years?

And again, you're just going, "It's really not that bad!" Or I'm flat out missing you intention behind what you're saying, which could be happening.

Do you really think that these symbols should be kept?

[CTTT]

So, removal of Confederate flags and monuments, what is the U.S. trying to erase the Civil War from their history? Revisionist history? What's next removing all the history books from stores and libraries? It's not going to change the fact that that did happen. As far as the renaming of the forts, I'm calling BS on that one. 1985 no one had a problem 1995 no one had a problem early 2000s no one said a peep. Now a black guy gets killed by one police officer while 4 are standing by and now fort names matter? Ask your neighbors if they know who Fort Hood was named for. See if they know anything about John Bell Hood. historical facts. Robert E. Lee was a slaveowner at one one time. But, he freed his slaves and detested slavery. He was against secession. The only reason he joined the Confederacy was because Virginia seceded and he felt he couldn't go against his "country". Shoot a lot of the soldiers that fought and died for the Confederacy weren't even slaveowners or even had mansions. They were just farm boys. They were fighting for a cause they believed in. Some of these protestors need to do a little research. A lot of brave soldiers fought and died to preserve the Union. These monument removals spit and desecrates on their memory. All Lives Matter. Black White Brown, whatever. And no by saying ALM I'm not ignoring the fact that what happened to George Floyd was unfortunate. It's a shame that happened as it would be a shame that it would happen to anyone, hence all lives mattering. If for example, a white man was killed by a policeman or a Hispanic or whatever, why shouldn't their lives matter too?

[Lightning Rider]

So, removal of Confederate flags and monuments, what is the U.S. trying to erase the Civil War from their history? Revisionist history? What's next removing all the history books from stores and libraries? It's not going to change the fact that that did happen.

Right! Just look at Germany, statues of Hitler everywhere. They don't deny their history.

[PwrdOn]

Dude, I'm in Japan like every other month ... that is not true in the slightest. It was true prior to 9/11. The current generation and the older millennials are full of apologists. Get with the times!

The logic of not counting the the absorbed aspects of the Nazis is baffling to me. Should the South since nobody is alive from the Civil War then not share the blame since they've been gone for more than 100 years?

And again, you're just going, "It's really not that bad!" Or I'm flat out missing you intention behind what you're saying, which could be happening.

Do you really think that these symbols should be kept?

That you as a presumably white American were treated well in Japan doesn't really invalidate the fact that they are currently still embroiled in a trade war with South Korea over the comfort women issue and that their prime minister, whose grandfather was a war criminal, is currently pushing to amend the constitution to openly remilitarize the country. And since we're talking about symbols, that rising sun flag that is seen throughout most of Asia as equivalent to the swastika, is still in use by their navy, a navy that they're not even supposed to have according to the post-war constitution. The unspoken reality is that we mostly let Japan get away with their war crimes because we needed them as a base against China, and forcing them to publicly denounce their past the same way that Germany has would be seen as cutting it too close to communist propaganda. Yes, there are plenty of Japanese people, particularly from younger generations, who are perfectly pleasant and ashamed of their nation's past history. However, that doesn't really invalidate the reality that they have been fortunate enough to grow up in a modern society and enjoy lives of relative prosperity largely due to their status as an American allies, and escaped much of the warfare, political chaos, and endemic poverty that characterized the post-war histories of most of the rest of Asia, where in many countries the withdrawal of Japanese invaders was quickly followed by American intervention in the name of "freedom" and "democracy."

As for Austria-Hungary, that term is generally understood to specifically refer to the Habsburg empire before the end of WWI, and its symbols and legacy are, if not necessarily beloved, pretty much regarded as benign and no more offensive than those of any European great power of that time period. The Nazis and Hitler in particular specifically despised the empire for its multi-ethnic character, even though it was hardly a modern progressive state. The fact that both Austria and Hungary as independent nations later joined the Nazi war effort doesn't really have much to do with anything related to with Austria-Hungary specifically, and there is at least some justification for these countries to argue that they were in part victims of German aggression rather than collaborators.

[Kirby101]

So, removal of Confederate flags and monuments, what is the U.S. trying to erase the Civil War from their history? Revisionist history? What's next removing all the history books from stores and libraries? It's not going to change the fact that that did happen. As far as the renaming of the forts, I'm calling BS on that one. 1985 no one had a problem 1995 no one had a problem early 2000s no one said a peep. Now a black guy gets killed by one police officer while 4 are standing by and now fort names matter? Ask your neighbors if they know who Fort Hood was named for. See if they know anything about John Bell Hood. historical facts. Robert E. Lee was a slaveowner at one one time. But, he freed his slaves and detested slavery. He was against secession. The only reason he joined the Confederacy was because Virginia seceded and he felt he couldn't go against his "country". Shoot a lot of the soldiers that fought and died for the Confederacy weren't even slaveowners or even had mansions. They were just farm boys. They were fighting for a cause they believed in. Some of these protestors need to do a little research. A lot of brave soldiers fought and died to preserve the Union. These monument removals spit and desecrates on their memory. All Lives Matter. Black White Brown, whatever. And no by saying ALM I'm not ignoring the fact that what happened to George Floyd was unfortunate. It's a shame that happened as it would be a shame that it would happen to anyone, hence all lives mattering. If for example, a white man was killed by a policeman or a Hispanic or whatever, why shouldn't their lives matter too?

You are pretty much wrong in everything you said.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...al-lee/529038/

Using All Lives Matter shows your true colors anyway.

[CTTT]

You're calling me a bigot? Sir, or ma'am I am definitely not. My true colors? My true colors are I don't want anything bad to happen to anyone.

[Kirby101]

You're calling me a bigot? Sir, or ma'am I am definitely not. My true colors? My true colors are I don't want anything bad to happen to anyone.

Then don't say All Lives Matter, or you will be seen as one. Just as people who fly the Confederate flag are considered racist.

[CTTT]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

In the last three years, 2017 457 whites were shot by police, 399 in 2018 370 in 2019 and so far in 2020, 172. By comparison blacks shot by police 223 in 2017, 209 in 2018, 235 in 2019, and so far in 2020, 88. So, over the last three years, more whites were shot to death by police than blacks, and as you can probably see in the link, more than other races. Statistical facts can't lie. So again, as unbiased as I can ask, why don't other lives whites hispanics asians and other races, matter too, when it comes to police violence?

[numberthirty]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

In the last three years, 2017 457 whites were shot by police, 399 in 2018 370 in 2019 and so far in 2020, 172. By comparison blacks shot by police 223 in 2017, 209 in 2018, 235 in 2019, and so far in 2020, 88. So, over the last three years, more whites were shot to death by police than blacks, and as you can probably see in the link, more than other races. Statistical facts can't lie. So again, as unbiased as I can ask, why don't other lives whites hispanics asians and other races, matter too, when it comes to police violence?

There is a pretty concise explanation of the potential issue posed in what is in blue at the beginning of this video -

[Kirby101]

CTTT, are you really trying for the white agenda trifecta?

[aja_christopher]

So again, as unbiased as I can ask, why don't other lives whites hispanics asians and other races, matter too, when it comes to police violence?

If you were being "unbiased" then you wouldn't be making the false argument about other lives not mattering when it comes to police violence.

So far as the math goes, I'll let others waste their time pointing out why your "logic" is flawed -- or you could just look it up yourself.

If it didn't go against your agenda.

[numberthirty]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

In the last three years, 2017 457 whites were shot by police, 399 in 2018 370 in 2019 and so far in 2020, 172. By comparison blacks shot by police 223 in 2017, 209 in 2018, 235 in 2019, and so far in 2020, 88. So, over the last three years, more whites were shot to death by police than blacks, and as you can probably see in the link, more than other races. Statistical facts can't lie. So again, as unbiased as I can ask, why don't other lives whites hispanics asians and other races, matter too, when it comes to police violence?

As for this specific aspect, it probably needs to be said that there is always more to a "Fact..." that a statistic would seeming establish than the assumption that you seem to be making here.

You've got(what seems to be...) raw numbers there. In your opinion, are folks protesting every single killing of a black person in America by the police? If you believe that is not the case, you've got to realize that those raw numbers(along with whatever you seem to believe that they actually represent...) goes out the window pretty quickly.

[4saken1]

Wow! Trump has presided over 19 of the 20 largest single day point drops in the history of the Dow Jones and 3 of the largest percentage changes (2 of which are in the top 5).

List of largest daily changes in the Dow Jones Industrial Average