All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[GindyPosts]

I just saw Debbie Dingell say "People are stunned by what Manchin did..."

Lady, I ain't even surprised.

Folks did not want to vote for infrastructure based on that this is exactly what would happen once they did.

I'm stunned by Biden and the Democrats constantly trying to win his support when he was just going to keep saying "no" or "that's too expensive" and be an obstinate brick wall.

[GindyPosts]

The problem is that if They try to pressure Manchin any further, he'll threaten to switch parties and that'll be a total disaster

Manchin pretty much votes Republican anyway, so what the hell kind of difference would it make?

[4saken1]

More 'proof' for the DeMoCrAtS aRe JuSt As BaD crowd.

[JCAll]

No argument there. My point about Manchin is that when someone has repeatedly been saying for months what he would not vote for, probably it would have been a good idea to believe him.

Everyone did believe him though. That's why they cut this part out of the infrastructure bill earlier this year, and why they've spent the last several months working with him trying to reshape the bill into something he'd vote for.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

No argument there. My point about Manchin is that when someone has repeatedly been saying for months what he would not vote for, probably it would have been a good idea to believe him.

The major problem was that before they had leverage over him because they knew his state and his donors wanted infrastructure DESPERATELY so he had to pay lip service to BBB when it was a coupled set of bills. Hence why the two bills were designed as compliments with lost of off setting language. That was the compromise.

The minute they let Manchin throw a fit over it, he tipped his hand that he needed infrastructure done and instead of holding his feet to the fire, the Democrats blinked, gave him an easy out thinking he wouldn't be able to walk back all the negotiating he had been doing. But he got what he wanted and shamefully waited to just end the facade when he couldn't keep dancing anymore that he was never going to do it. They gave him a pass when the whole process was designed to get moderates to deal in good faith on BBB and progressives on infrastructure. They had a plan that was making Manchin and others feel heat, and they tossed it away.

Oh and for those keeping score, BBB was Biden's signature legislation and campaign slogan. This guaranteed a total wipe out for the Dems next November and probably torpedoed Biden's presidency.

[babyblob]

I'm stunned by Biden and the Democrats constantly trying to win his support when he was just going to keep saying "no" or "that's too expensive" and be an obstinate brick wall.

Biden all he does is talk about how he wants people to work together and he will do what he can to make that happen. In a couple days he will come out and say he still hopes to get his support despite the rebuuke and they are close and he is still in talks with the GOP etc..

Manchin Knew from the start what he was going to do and how he was going to play it and he did just what he wanted and he won and we all lose.

[kidfresh512]

I'm stunned by Biden and the Democrats constantly trying to win his support when he was just going to keep saying "no" or "that's too expensive" and be an obstinate brick wall.

Why would that stun you? It is simple logic. If Manchin doesn't vote for it nothing gets done. GOP obviously were not going to support it. It will be the same with voter rights as well. Manchin has to support that or its not getting done either.

[JCAll]

The major problem was that before they had leverage over him because they knew his state and his donors wanted infrastructure DESPERATELY so he had to pay lip service to BBB when it was a coupled set of bills. Hence why the two bills were designed as compliments with lost of off setting language. That was the compromise.

The minute they let Manchin throw a fit over it, he tipped his hand that he needed infrastructure done and instead of holding his feet to the fire, the Democrats blinked, gave him an easy out thinking he wouldn't be able to walk back all the negotiating he had been doing. But he got what he wanted and shamefully waited to just end the facade when he couldn't keep dancing anymore that he was never going to do it. They gave him a pass when the whole process was designed to get moderates to deal in good faith on BBB and progressives on infrastructure. They had a plan that was making Manchin and others feel heat, and they tossed it away.

Oh and for those keeping score, BBB was Biden's signature legislation and campaign slogan. This guaranteed a total wipe out for the Dems next November and probably torpedoed Biden's presidency.

I still think that the idea there was every any leverage over Manchin was mostly wishful thinking.

[Gray Lensman]

Manchin pretty much votes Republican anyway, so what the hell kind of difference would it make?

Biden has appointed a lot of lower court judges. Manchin switches and that stops entirely. No judges, no government posts, no ability to even use reconciliation to get the basics of a budget passed, as once McConnel becomes majority leader he gets to schedule EVERYTHING. If he doesn't like it, it never even gets to have a vote. And if a Democrat proposed it, McConnel doesn't like it.

[babyblob]

Why would that stun you? It is simple logic. If Manchin doesn't vote for it nothing gets done. GOP obviously were not going to support it. It will be the same with voter rights as well. Manchin has to support that or its not getting done either.

I am really worried about the voting rights. That is Biden's other big thing. I cant think of that dying or going no where.

[Malvolio]

Biden has appointed a lot of lower court judges. Manchin switches and that stops entirely. No judges, no government posts, no ability to even use reconciliation to get the basics of a budget passed, as once McConnel becomes majority leader he gets to schedule EVERYTHING. If he doesn't like it, it never even gets to have a vote. And if a Democrat proposed it, McConnel doesn't like it.

That's it exactly. I just read an article today about how several of Biden's appointments to be ambassadors just got confirmed. That doesn't happen with a Republican majority in the Senate.

[kidfresh512]

Biden has appointed a lot of lower court judges. Manchin switches and that stops entirely. No judges, no government posts, no ability to even use reconciliation to get the basics of a budget passed, as once McConnel becomes majority leader he gets to schedule EVERYTHING. If he doesn't like it, it never even gets to have a vote. And if a Democrat proposed it, McConnel doesn't like it.

There was an article last week that this has been a quiet achievement of the administration. Most judges in his first year since Reagan. Filling up Judicial gaps at a record pace. Its a start at least with the concerning pace the GOP had been previously stacking the Judiciary

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I am really worried about the voting rights. That is Biden's other big thing. I cant think of that dying or going no where.

In a perfect world, that would be a slam dunk since it doesn’t involve money, but, I’m afraid the voting rights bill will die on the vine as well. Qpublicans clearly don’t want it, and Manchin will probably say no because he fears being primaried if he doesn’t.

[Gray Lensman]

There was an article last week that this has been a quiet achievement of the administration. Most judges in his first year since Reagan. Filling up Judicial gaps at a record pace. Its a start at least with the concerning pace the GOP had been previously stacking the Judiciary

The bad thing is that Biden is only able to appoint lower court judges, all the higher ones were pushed through by Trump.

[Mister Mets]

The major problem was that before they had leverage over him because they knew his state and his donors wanted infrastructure DESPERATELY so he had to pay lip service to BBB when it was a coupled set of bills. Hence why the two bills were designed as compliments with lost of off setting language. That was the compromise.

The minute they let Manchin throw a fit over it, he tipped his hand that he needed infrastructure done and instead of holding his feet to the fire, the Democrats blinked, gave him an easy out thinking he wouldn't be able to walk back all the negotiating he had been doing. But he got what he wanted and shamefully waited to just end the facade when he couldn't keep dancing anymore that he was never going to do it. They gave him a pass when the whole process was designed to get moderates to deal in good faith on BBB and progressives on infrastructure. They had a plan that was making Manchin and others feel heat, and they tossed it away.

Oh and for those keeping score, BBB was Biden's signature legislation and campaign slogan. This guaranteed a total wipe out for the Dems next November and probably torpedoed Biden's presidency.

The leverage argument doesn't seem to work, as there are two explanations for the perspective of progressives, neither of which is morally acceptable.

One explanation is that the infrastructure bill is a good idea, but that they also wanted the Build Back Better Act. In this case, they're willing to hold a good bill hostage to get other stuff.

The other explanation is that the infrastructure bill is misguided, but they were willing to waste money on that garbage in order to get the votes for the Build Back Better act.

Neither of those is an inappropriate position to take.