All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[GindyPosts]

so, expressing one's own opinion and the person responding automatically makes the assumption that the poster is a bigot? What happened to debates without name calling? cordiality? Btw, I have black friends, my wife works with blacks. I have no problem whatsoever with blacks or their causes

Having black friends doesn't mean you can't be racist. It just means you're friends with black people.

[BeastieRunner]

That you as a presumably white American were treated well in Japan doesn't really invalidate the fact that they are currently still embroiled in a trade war with South Korea over the comfort women issue and that their prime minister, whose grandfather was a war criminal, is currently pushing to amend the constitution to openly remilitarize the country. And since we're talking about symbols, that rising sun flag that is seen throughout most of Asia as equivalent to the swastika, is still in use by their navy, a navy that they're not even supposed to have according to the post-war constitution. The unspoken reality is that we mostly let Japan get away with their war crimes because we needed them as a base against China, and forcing them to publicly denounce their past the same way that Germany has would be seen as cutting it too close to communist propaganda. Yes, there are plenty of Japanese people, particularly from younger generations, who are perfectly pleasant and ashamed of their nation's past history. However, that doesn't really invalidate the reality that they have been fortunate enough to grow up in a modern society and enjoy lives of relative prosperity largely due to their status as an American allies, and escaped much of the warfare, political chaos, and endemic poverty that characterized the post-war histories of most of the rest of Asia, where in many countries the withdrawal of Japanese invaders was quickly followed by American intervention in the name of "freedom" and "democracy."

As for Austria-Hungary, that term is generally understood to specifically refer to the Habsburg empire before the end of WWI, and its symbols and legacy are, if not necessarily beloved, pretty much regarded as benign and no more offensive than those of any European great power of that time period. The Nazis and Hitler in particular specifically despised the empire for its multi-ethnic character, even though it was hardly a modern progressive state. The fact that both Austria and Hungary as independent nations later joined the Nazi war effort doesn't really have much to do with anything related to with Austria-Hungary specifically, and there is at least some justification for these countries to argue that they were in part victims of German aggression rather than collaborators.

JSDF, JDSDF, and JMSDF fly modified versions. In January 2020, the current revisionists in Japan, those they you mentioned that are older and on the way out, have begun to slip with support because the younger generation is moving the country into a level of atonement. They are dealing with the fallout of a symbol that has been around for CENTURIES of atrocities. That's more than the South can say for something that's been around for less than 160 years.

I don't really understand your point about the Austro-Hungarian Empire and I actually think it partially factually incorrect. Viktor Dankl von Krasnik, a high ranking officer during WWI, spent years after WWI denouncing and apologizing for their atrocities. He was loud about the Habsburg monarchy. He was extremely vocal about apologizing for their war record. Habsburg supported the Anschluss. He was a firm opponent of the Anschluss. He favored an Imperial Austria under Habsburg rather than a Nazi German Reich under Hitler until the end of his life. He rejected all aspects of totalitarianism, fascism, antisemitism, plutarchy, and the role his homeland played in the rise of the Nazis. Hitler despised every country, even his own, for not being "pure." Hitler hated the man so much he refused to let the regional Wehrmacht that had men he trained give him any kind of burial. Again, that's more than the South can say for their efforts and it only took 20-30 years for them to begin atonement before Hitler swooped them up to ruin the momentum.

It's well past time for the South to atone for their past. Those symbols of oppression, those monuments of oppression that are primarily there to remind POC of their place beneath them have to go. We can and have to do better.

Why don't you want to see it go to the history books and museums?

What's with the race baiting opening, by the way?

[KOSLOX]

Having black friends doesn't mean you can't be racist. It just means you're friends with black people.

I love it when my friends refer to me as "a black."

[BeastieRunner]

Having black friends doesn't mean you can't be racist. It just means you're friends with black people.

People aren't trading cards.

I thought most of us knew that, right? :shrugs:

I'm always amazed when that's a persons argument to prove they're not racist.

I want to do better and still say and do racist things. I was raised in it and I want to be present and do better for my fellow human. It's not an excuse. We have to do better.

[GindyPosts]

Well, what you just said clarifies things a bit for me. Ok, so ALM means support for aggressive policing and discriminatory practices by police. Aggressive policing and discriminatory practices I'm definitely not in support of.

The problem with "All Lives Matter" is that people who use All Lives Matter as their rallying cry often support the very things that keep the institution that we live in and makes minorities and disadvantaged groups just the way it is, and any suggestions to the contrary is just begging for anarchy and the total destruction of America as we know it. Effectively; you prefer the status quo, and don't want anything to change. And often throw in a #KAG or maybe a #QAnon somewhere in their Twitter feed.

[GindyPosts]

People aren't trading cards.

I thought most of us knew that, right? :shrugs:

I'm always amazed when that's a persons argument to prove they're not racist.

I want to do better and still say and do racist things. I was raised in it and I want to be present and do better for my fellow human. It's not an excuse. We have to do better.

Yeah, like... for crying out loud, I have a mental disability. Don't just buddy up to me and go "I'm friends with a handicapped person, so I'm not an ableist!" If you legit care for someone, you're friends with them because of who they are as people, not just because of what they are.

I'll be perfectly honest, so do forgive me for being a bit open about this... I accidentally said the N word when I was in the 7th grade, and the assistant teacher took me out of the class and gave me a very stern talking to about using that word, and I have felt very guilty about that moment ever since. We're still going to make mistakes, and the situation I was raised in absolutely did not help me for the world, so I effectively had to learn on my own. However, we aren't going to get better unless we admit we screwed up before; otherwise we're just going to keep doing the same shit over and over again.

I love it when my friends refer to me as "a black."

Oh, I bet it's a term of endearment, isn't it? Especially if you're the only one in the group.

[shooshoomanjoe]

so, expressing one's own opinion and the person responding automatically makes the assumption that the poster is a bigot? What happened to debates without name calling? cordiality? Btw, I have black friends, my wife works with blacks. I have no problem whatsoever with blacks or their causes

Reminds me when trump said "look at my African American over" to prove he wasn't racist.

[KOSLOX]

The problem with "All Lives Matter" is that people who use All Lives Matter as their rallying cry often support the very things that keep the institution that we live in and makes minorities and disadvantaged groups just the way it is, and any suggestions to the contrary is just begging for anarchy and the total destruction of America as we know it. Effectively; you prefer the status quo, and don't want anything to change. And often throw in a #KAG or maybe a #QAnon somewhere in their Twitter feed.

Or All Lives Matter counter protestors mock the victims of police by kneeling on the necks of each other to taunt protestors.

I know when I want to express the validity of all lives I like to make a mockery of how someone died.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/10/us/al...rnd/index.html

[GindyPosts]

Or All Lives Matter counter protestors mock the victims of police by kneeling on the necks of each other to taunt protestors.

I know when I want to express the validity of all lives I like to make a mockery of how someone died.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/10/us/al...rnd/index.html

Yeah, if you care about "all lives", don't you be posting memes of black people as thugs and reenacting something that got people killed.

[GindyPosts]

On this...

If you wanna pat yourself on the back and feel good about having flipped that particular bird, great I guess?

That said, if everyone who thinks that put roughly five to ten times that effort into helping out the folks that people who eventually created the States murdered or put on reservations or kidnapped from their homes while putting this country together?

That would probably be a far more effective and lasting middle finger to those racists mentioned.

Someday, we'll hopefully get to that point where we'll finally give the Native Americans the treatment they fairly deserve and not just have them squatting in reservations where alcoholism is high and aspirations are low.

But, one step at a time.

[Tendrin]

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/*...ney-mark-jones

“Freedom and legalize weed,” raps Jawga Boi, a local artist. “The people’s DA who we need. Mark Jones, right now.”


The tie-clad subject of the campaign rap video steps into the circle of people holding election signs and leaning against parked cars, grabbing his suit lapels and bobbing in time to the music.

The camera pans out to an aerial shot of cars doing donuts in the Columbus Civic Center parking lot, leaving skid marks from the burning rubber.

And that’s where the trouble began.

This story is kind of hilarious and awful and it is, of course, right out of Georgia.

I see we had a visit from an 'All Lives Matter' sort. As people keep saying: All lives won't matter until black lives do.

[PwrdOn]

JSDF, JDSDF, and JMSDF fly modified versions. In January 2020, the current revisionists in Japan, those they you mentioned that are older and on the way out, have begun to slip with support because the younger generation is moving the country into a level of atonement. They are dealing with the fallout of a symbol that has been around for CENTURIES of atrocities. That's more than the South can say for something that's been around for less than 160 years.

I don't really understand your point about the Austro-Hungarian Empire and I actually think it partially factually incorrect. Viktor Dankl von Krasnik, a high ranking officer during WWI, spent years after WWI denouncing and apologizing for their atrocities. He was loud about the Habsburg monarchy. He was extremely vocal about apologizing for their war record. Habsburg supported the Anschluss. He was a firm opponent of the Anschluss. He favored an Imperial Austria under Habsburg rather than a Nazi German Reich under Hitler until the end of his life. He rejected all aspects of totalitarianism, fascism, antisemitism, plutarchy, and the role his homeland played in the rise of the Nazis. Hitler despised every country, even his own, for not being "pure." Hitler hated the man so much he refused to let the regional Wehrmacht that had men he trained give him any kind of burial. Again, that's more than the South can say for their efforts and it only took 20-30 years for them to begin atonement before Hitler swooped them up to ruin the momentum.

It's well past time for the South to atone for their past. Those symbols of oppression, those monuments of oppression that are primarily there to remind POC of their place beneath them have to go. We can and have to do better.

Why don't you want to see it go to the history books and museums?

What's with the race baiting opening, by the way?

I think you are a bit confused about what an "apologist" is, it's not someone who apologizes for controversial actions but rather the opposite, someone who tries to justify and rationalize these actions as necessary or beneficial. And this was the case for the Austro-Hungarian general you pointed out, far from trying to atone for his country's war record, he was keen on celebrating and defending the honor of the empire, which would also help to explain why he, as a devoted monarchist seeking the restoration of the Habsburg dynasty, would opposite all of these newfangled far right ultranationalist movements that arose in the interwar period. But getting back to the point, I think you are just mistaken in lumping in Austria-Hungary with the Axis nations as some kind of brutal totalitarian regime, and I don't see any consensus among either scholars or the general public in these areas that regard that era as particularly shameful or that its actions somehow need to be atoned for. Remember that in WWI there wasn't much of a distinction between good and evil on the two sides, and just because Austria-Hungary ended up on the losing side doesn't mean they were any more murderous than any of the other nations involved. In fact, you could make an argument that they had the least blood on their hands of the major powers involved, simply because their army was quite inept and tended to lose most of its battles.

As for Japan, the reason I made that comment was that just because you visit there often and are presumably treated well by the locals, that doesn't mean that they would treat anyone else similarly or that this politeness is indicative of a general attitude of openness and acceptance. And I'm not sure your idea that a new wave of liberal-minded youngsters is about to take over, since Japan has the world's oldest population and decades of low birth rates mean that these younger cohorts make up a much smaller share of the population than elsewhere, not to mention that the cultural deference toward elders means that its highly unlikely some wave of young radicals will sweep the old guard out of power any time soon. And there's little reason to believe that the younger generations are any more politically active than their counterparts in other countries, indeed just about all the evidence I can find indicates that Japanese youths are generally apathetic toward politics and tend to have a gloomy outlook, no doubt driven by Japan's stagnant economy and diminished standing in the world in recent decades. This of course means that they are particularly vulnerable to far right rabble rousers, just as young white men in the West have been, and no doubt these agitators will fixate on the idea of ending the apology tours and reclaiming Japan's past glories. Remember that though the coronavirus has sort of rendered this issue rather irrelevant in the last few months, Japan is still locked in a trade war with South Korea over their boneheaded refusal to properly address the comfort women issue, and that really should be a no-brainer especially given that Korea is supposed to be a partner and ally in the fight to contain Chinese expansion. I can pretty confidently say that hell will freeze over before the Japanese will even acknowledge crimes like the Rape of Nanjing or Unit 731.

[Electricmastro]

Trump Threatens to Invade Seattle, Mayor Tells Him to ‘Go Back to Your Bunker': https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/g...rce=reddit.com

[Malvolio]

Reminds me when trump said "look at my African American over" to prove he wasn't racist.

Not to make any assumptions about CTTT, but I have a feeling that a lot of white people who say they have Black friends, really just mean that there are a few Black people at work who they talk to at the water cooler about the previous night's sporting event. In order to prove that the Black people they know are indeed their friends, ask them, "He's your friend? All right, what's his wife's name? Have you ever had him over your house for dinner? Who's his favorite music performer?" If he doesn't know the answer to any of those questions, then he's not really friends with any Black person. He's just friendly enough to get along with a co-worker.

And, full disclosure, I say this as a white man who wishes I were better acquainted with the Black people I've worked with and gotten to know in my life.

[PaulBullion]