All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Oh, yeah, a certain former president was also mixed up to his eyeballs with Epstein and Maxwell, no matter how much he denies:

[CaptainEurope]

Oh, yeah, a certain former president was also mixed up to his eyeballs with Epstein and Maxwell, no matter how much he denies:

I am stunned that Trump wishing her well after her arrest did not convince the jury of her innocence.

[CaptainEurope]

Some news from Europe: Austria's disgraced former Chancellor Sebastian Kurz, the slick wunderkind of politics who resigned under a cloud of criminal behavior mere weeks ago, has been hired by Trump friend Peter Thiel's company as "Global Strategist."

[Tendrin]

So it's coming out that the Denver gunman who killed five people was a right wing extremist. *shocked pikachu face*
https://twitter.com/nickmartin/statu...05771049504770

[JB]

Oh, yeah, a certain former president was also mixed up to his eyeballs with Epstein and Maxwell, no matter how much he denies:

It’s going to very interesting to see what comes out when the original settlement agreement is released in a few days. Epstein was convicted in 2008 for child prostitution charges and the plea deal/settle agreement, which included info on Prince Andrew, was sealed. He only served 13 months with extensive work release.

The Maxwell judge has ordered the settlement agreement to be unsealed and docketed on public record on 1/3/22. One of the Epstein prosecutors is on record (there’s a video) stating Trump assisted the investigation and provided evidence. I’m very curious to see if that’s true and what the settlement agreement entailed.

[Catlady in training]

Ghislaine Maxwell guilty of sex trafficking a minor
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/ghi...ein/index.html

Some good news at last. Now, let's hear some names.

Some news from Europe: Austria's disgraced former Chancellor Sebastian Kurz, the slick wunderkind of politics who resigned under a cloud of criminal behavior mere weeks ago, has been hired by Trump friend Peter Thiel's company as "Global Strategist."

How was the quote? "I know the best of people"?

[CSTowle]

Hundreds of children have been rescued and thousands of trafficking criminals have been arrested this year. The Trafficking Victims Protection Act is very much active right now which Biden has thankfully continued. 5 teen trafficking victims were announced rescued in New Orleans yesterday. It's very real. But whether or not high profile people will be uncovered only time with tell. Maxwell has said if she's found guilty she'll give up names to make a deal.

A second CNN producer resigned this week as he's under investigation for sex crimes against children. Two accused within two weeks.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you somehow misread my statement about the Epstein situation not necessarily being a case of human trafficking as instead being a statement along the lines of "human trafficking doesn't exist" (I don't know how you would come to that conclusion, but again benefit of the doubt). Please reread, but for the record I am quite aware of the reality of human trafficking and sexual slavery. It's not really a conspiracy or topic for debate. Epstein being a high-end pimp to the elite vs a high end human trafficker to the elite is, and I'd lay my money on the pimp side of things. That said, if his girls were underage (and it seems like at least a few were) that's enough to bring down the big names being bandied about.

I don't think it will be confirmed, nor do I think they'd even be confirmed as clients for his particular brand of prostitution, because I think they protect their own. A higher profile version of the high schooler who raped a girl but was let off with a light sentence because "it would be a tragedy to stymy his potential" or the like. You see it with high profile people who do things like commit vehicular manslaughter or rape all of the time. Meanwhile poor, minority folk go to prison for years for the equivalent of shoplifting or talking back to the cops (assuming they're lucky enough to not be killed).

[Tami]

A lesson in Journalism

Alan Dershowitz Interview on Ghislaine Maxwell Leaves Viewers Outraged: 'Inexcusable'

During his appearance on the BBC, Dershowitz highlighted the fact that the government didn't call Giuffre as a witness. She is currently suing Dershowitz for defamation and he is countersuing.

"The government did not use as a witness the woman who accused Prince Andrew, who accused me, accused many other people because the government didn't believe she was telling the truth," Dershowitz said.

"The interview with Alan Dershowitz after the Ghislaine Maxwell verdict did not meet the BBC's editorial standards, as Mr. Dershowitz was not a suitable person to interview as an impartial analyst, and we did not make the relevant background clear to our audience. We will look into how this happened," the statement said.

Sarah Churchwell, a professor at the University of London, wrote: "So @BBCNews has decided that the expert witness they need on the Maxwell trial is Alan Dershowitz. Who has taken the opportunity to say that it shows how accusations against him and Prince Andrew are wrong."

Statement on interview with Alan Dershowitz

Basically, the BBC brought on an expert witness who might be implicated in the Epstein/Maxwell crime.

At least they realized their mistake and apologized for it, after the fact.

[Mister Mets]

While I love a good conspiracy theory and put myself firmly into the group who seriously doubts he committed suicide, I believe you don't need to be human trafficking to introduce teen/early 20s attractive young women to celebrities/politicians/wealthy men with promises of wealth or connections. I see it more as high-end prostitution, with perhaps a blackmail angle for some. Powerful and wealthy men are still men, and at the end of the day are wired to desire the same thing. If it can be done by someone they trust, out of the public eye, I have little doubt the Prince Andrews/Bill Clintons of the world would be arrogant enough to think it would never come out. Looks like it likely won't, in any seriously impactful way for them. And royals/politicians (especially the Clintons) are no strangers to rumor/innuendo/bad press.

There are some unusual factors with Epstein, like his preference for underage girls (including a conviction for procuring a child for prostitution) and his mysterious levels of income for the service he claims to provide and the number of clients he claims to have. He does also have very prominent associates, including two former Presidents, Prince Andrew, and Bill Gates.

There may very well be some other explanation than that he provided teenagers to rich and powerful men, but it is very sketchy.

Forgive my ignorance of the US legal system here, but isn't it too late now? Wouldn't one make a deal before one is found guilty by a jury of one's peers? So that the DA can bring lesser charges that carry milder sentences?

You can always make a deal if you have information interesting to prosecutors.

The sentencing phase comes after a guilty verdict. But it can also happen that a sentence will be reduced for cooperation.

[Mister Mets]

So, how many women dying of unsafe abortions to lower the global temperature by one degree would you find acceptable? Is there a limit? Would a million women be too much?

I suspect that if I were to try to engage this question honestly, people would report my posts.

As I said before, I think global warming is a serious problem, but not so serious that it requires extreme solutions. People who think it is a more serious problem would have a different viewpoint.

There is a major squeamishness about openly discussing the consequences of policies, which is unfortunate. When politicians make laws, they have to weigh the costs and benefits. In that case, if people discussing current events are discouraged from doing the same, we can't really have an open discussion about news and politics, as we're not able to talk about the things decisionmakers consider, or significant measures about whether a policy is worthwhile.

It would be so much worse if politicians were not able to weigh the costs and benefits as that would likely mean more lives are lost when important considerations become taboo.

[JB]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you somehow misread my statement about the Epstein situation not necessarily being a case of human trafficking as instead being a statement along the lines of "human trafficking doesn't exist" (I don't know how you would come to that conclusion, but again benefit of the doubt). Please reread, but for the record I am quite aware of the reality of human trafficking and sexual slavery. It's not really a conspiracy or topic for debate. Epstein being a high-end pimp to the elite vs a high end human trafficker to the elite is, and I'd lay my money on the pimp side of things. That said, if his girls were underage (and it seems like at least a few were) that's enough to bring down the big names being bandied about.

I don't think it will be confirmed, nor do I think they'd even be confirmed as clients for his particular brand of prostitution, because I think they protect their own. A higher profile version of the high schooler who raped a girl but was let off with a light sentence because "it would be a tragedy to stymy his potential" or the like. You see it with high profile people who do things like commit vehicular manslaughter or rape all of the time. Meanwhile poor, minority folk go to prison for years for the equivalent of shoplifting or talking back to the cops (assuming they're lucky enough to not be killed).

My apologies for the confusion then. I just wasn't clear how you seemed unsure that the Epstein situation wasn't trafficking when Maxwell was found guilty of the following:

Count one: Conspiracy to entice a minor to travel to engage in illegal sex acts
Count three: Conspiracy to transport a minor with the intent to engage in criminal sexual activity
Count four: Transporting a minor with the intent to engage in criminal sexual activity

He was charged for similar crimes before he died and since Maxwell worked for him, made arrangements for him, and used his planes to transport victims as the trial showed, it's clear trafficking is what they were doing. The big question now is who all were they flying and delivering the victims to.

But I agree with the second part of your post in that it's likely to be much more difficult to get those names revealed because they are high profile.

[JackDaw]

Oh, yeah, a certain former president was also mixed up to his eyeballs with Epstein and Maxwell, no matter how much he denies:

Just the one??

[Johnathan]

I suspect that if I were to try to engage this question honestly, people would report my posts.

As I said before, I think global warming is a serious problem, but not so serious that it requires extreme solutions. People who think it is a more serious problem would have a different viewpoint.

There is a major squeamishness about openly discussing the consequences of policies, which is unfortunate. When politicians make laws, they have to weigh the costs and benefits. In that case, if people discussing current events are discouraged from doing the same, we can't really have an open discussion about news and politics, as we're not able to talk about the things decisionmakers consider, or significant measures about whether a policy is worthwhile.

It would be so much worse if politicians were not able to weigh the costs and benefits as that would likely mean more lives are lost when important considerations become taboo.

The tougher part of this is that there is no reason to trust either side to stick to the bargain. Conservative politicians that do not believe global warming is a serious problem will use the same tactics to get around enforcing restrictions that they've used to get around all other environmental protections. Liberal politicians that believe abortion is a central reproductive right for all women will use similar tactics to get around restrictions on abortion procedures.

On top of this, here in the USA, I don't really believe that the Democratic Party is all that committed to fighting climate change OR that any of the drastic solutions would (a.) actually reverse anything, (b.) not cause even worse environmental and social problems or (c.) even get passed into law even if the Democrats retained control of Congress. I just don't have any faith that any US politician holding office today has the will to face climate change OR that anyone funding a US politician or the majority of people that would put them into office have climate change and global warming at the top of their minds when voting. I have no doubt that a politician would lose more votes by compromising on abortion rights than they would win by prioritizing global warming reductions.

I think this will become even more true when Roe v. Wade is eventually overturned or completely neutralized. Again, the solution will not come from giving government more powers as that's exactly what got us into this mess in the first place. That should have been the lesson of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks. The government and military had all the power and intelligence they needed to prevent them, but when they proved themselves completely incompetent, they asked for more power and it led to two costly wars, a surveillance state violating individual privacy, as well as actual torture and murder that they were allowed to keep secret (and probably still commit).

We'll need to take more power and freedom for individuals to force the necessary changes.

[JB]

A lesson in Journalism

Alan Dershowitz Interview on Ghislaine Maxwell Leaves Viewers Outraged: 'Inexcusable'





Statement on interview with Alan Dershowitz

Basically, the BBC brought on an expert witness who might be implicated in the Epstein/Maxwell crime.

At least they realized their mistake and apologized for it, after the fact.

Good of them to recognize and apologize for their error. Dershowitz is one of the names confirmed by a pilot and an Epstein assistant during the trial as having flown on Epstein's plane(s). Certainly not the best person to comment on all of this.

[Xheight]

I suspect that if I were to try to engage this question honestly, people would report my posts.

As I said before, I think global warming is a serious problem, but not so serious that it requires extreme solutions. People who think it is a more serious problem would have a different viewpoint.

There is a major squeamishness about openly discussing the consequences of policies, which is unfortunate. When politicians make laws, they have to weigh the costs and benefits. In that case, if people discussing current events are discouraged from doing the same, we can't really have an open discussion about news and politics, as we're not able to talk about the things decisionmakers consider, or significant measures about whether a policy is worthwhile.

It would be so much worse if politicians were not able to weigh the costs and benefits as that would likely mean more lives are lost when important considerations become taboo.

The unfortune part of this hodgepodge of laws and definitions is that like the term "underage girls" means many things to different people and cultures even modern ones and is conflated with child porn. The still famous case of

Roman Polanski was arrested and charged in Los Angeles with six offenses against Samantha Geimer, a 13-year-old girl - rape by use of drugs, perversion, sodomy, lewd and lascivious act upon a child under 14, and furnishing a controlled substance to a minor.

begs all kinds of review of community standard taking precedence a relative standard that most of us walk around with. Personally I don't see the crime of girls finding their way into such situations and being covered by some sort of constructed immunity.