All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[worstblogever]

This entire argument is going to boil down to people who have done the gaslighting, at least 3 to my count, explaining why it's acceptable that they've done it, disavow that there are any consequences upon the actual world for making false statements without recourse, and how they should be allowed to continue to do so...

When that exact pattern of behavior and tolerating lies being allowed to stand online is what got a mob riled up about a stolen election a year ago that resulted in them being manipulated into being pawns in a coup attempt by an authoritarian political party who also actively spread those lies in a desperate bid not to lose power. That coup attempt featured a domestic terror attack where multiple people died, including law enforcement, and right now, the talk is they're prepping to try to do it again at some point in the future and have continued the main lie.

And there is a side of this argument trying to tell us they'd like to go down that exact same path.

Because this time, they think the side they'd like to succeed in the attempt will win. And that's why we should all accept it.

And they're trying to convince those in the forum, that this is all fine, both poster, and moderator alike. Because this isn't subtle, it's just being done in plain sight like it's normal.

It isn't. I said after January 6th, 2021, that Republicans should not be trusted with the narrative of current events regarding all of this, and today is really underlining exactly why I said that.

[worstblogever]

If the standard were not conspiracy theories and false information were the bar, this would be something that could be used against left-wing posters.

Name them. Who's spreading a left-wing conspiracy theory in here?

NOBODY.

You can't "both sides" this. You're pitching a hypothetical, but, if someone persisted in posting a left-wing conspiracy theory, I would want the same done to them. At worst, I've seen people on the left on this forum get bad information, share it, have it pointed out that it's a hoax, and move on.

We're talking here about perpetuating the same lie for over a year, and ones that have resulted in domestic terror attacks. That is... and I know Republicans struggle with how these work... a FALSE EQUIVALENCY.

[Gray Lensman]

If that is honestly what one is worried about?

They should take heart. This is the single worst attempt to achieve that end that I have ever witnessed.

At the risk of invoking Godwin's Law....

That's what they said about the Beer Hall Putsch. Not taking it as seriously as they should have led to dire consequences for everyone.

[Kirby101]

Is Trump colluding with the Russians considered a conspiracy theory? Cause, mea culpa. Course I have a Senate Report that backs it up.
How about the GOP is in the midst of a broad based effort to suppress the votes of Democrats.

[Kirby101]

If that is honestly what one is worried about?

They should take heart. This is the single worst attempt to achieve that end that I have ever witnessed.

It's not like numerous people repeating misinformation on the internet helped swing the 2016 election.

[Mister Mets]

Name them. Who's spreading a left-wing conspiracy theory in here?

NOBODY.

You can't "both sides" this. You're pitching a hypothetical, but, if someone persisted in posting a left-wing conspiracy theory, I would want the same done to them. At worst, I've seen people on the left on this forum get bad information, share it, have it pointed out that it's a hoax, and move on.

We're talking here about perpetuating the same lie for over a year, and ones that have resulted in domestic terror attacks. That is... and I know Republicans struggle with how these work... a FALSE EQUIVALENCY.

One example of someone spreading a left-wing conspiracy theory is the guy who recently claimed Trump planned the attack on the capitol.

They were close. Sure, they didn't have the military... but they had the military making statements to not interfere in either direction while Michael Flynn's brother was at the Pentagon stalling the National Guard's response. They tried to get people within the Pentagon and National Security Team at the last minute in December to get traction on it.

The press is reporting that this almost was a coup because it was. And it's on,y by honoring that truth that we can move forward and take steps yo make sure that in 2024, 2028, or any other year it can't happen again.

The fact that we're watching the forum's one still-admitted Republican try to hand-wave away a coordinated domestic terror attack planned by his party's president/overlord and members of his party that their die-hard militia and conspiracy supporters carried out that killed Capitol Police and wanted to capture and kill the VP or noteworthy progressives to lynch them... this is now becoming the GQP brand. Ignore all the evidence of the evil and seditious things we did, nothing to see here...

Meanwhile, Liz Cheney is like, "ENOUGH."

That certainly counts as a conspiracy theory.

[worstblogever]

One example of someone spreading a left-wing conspiracy theory is the guy who recently claimed Trump planned the attack on the capitol.

That certainly counts as a conspiracy theory.

I'll put this in simple terms, since you seem to fail to understand how "conspiracy theories" work. Conspiracy theories have no proof. What I have to back up the statement you are gaslighting us all by claiming a false equivalency that I've shared one:

There. Is. A. Goddamned. PowerPoint. Detailing. Trump's. Plan.
His. Lawyer. And. His. People. Worked. Out. Of. His. Hotel. To. Plan. It.
His. Statements. Incited. The. Mob. As. Part. Of. The. Plan. To. Pressure. Pence.
It. Was. Planned. To. The. Extent. That. Fox. News. Personalities. Tried. To. Talk. Him. Out. Of. It.

Stop. Gaslighting. Us.

[thwhtGuardian]

One example of someone spreading a left-wing conspiracy theory is the guy who recently claimed Trump planned the attack on the capitol.

That certainly counts as a conspiracy theory.

...It's not though...that's literally what happened last January.

[Kirby101]

It's not a "conspiracy theory", it was an actual conspiracy.

It's also not a "conspiracy theory" that Trump tried to get the Ukraine to interfere in the election, it was another actual conspiracy.

[numberthirty]

At the risk of invoking Godwin's Law....

That's what they said about the Beer Hall Putsch. Not taking it as seriously as they should have led to dire consequences for everyone.

Straight talk...

If this thread is the tipping point where Skynet actually becomes sentient?

It was already way too late, and only a matter of "Where..." it was going to finally happen and not "If..." it was going to finally happen.

[numberthirty]

It's not like numerous people repeating misinformation on the internet helped swing the 2016 election.

More straight talk...

There was not a large enough degree of misinformation that it could not have been easily countered by a simple and limited effort from a Democratic nominee who was supposedly one of the most capable politicians in the history of the United States.

Getting caught up in trying to catch that mouse versus delivering results for the everyday John/Jane Public in an attempt to actually give them a reason to vote for you?

That is a foolish move. On a good day.

[numberthirty]

I guess thanks for not denying that you were spreading lies, and being consistent about accepting any responsibility for what came next, by just minimizing how many folks you feel those lies reached.

Kinda making my point.

Not even "Kinda...", and one would have to be in a rather charitable mood to see that as "A Point..."

[babyblob]

Just my two cents.

It is not so much people on this board being the tipping point for someone. Or people on this board over reacting or under reacting to the 6th.

This board and this thread are not the only places where the events of the 6th are being talked about. There is a major so called news Network that often talks about the 6th and down plays it and those who planned it and are responsible for it. They are calling those arrested political prisoners and heroes. They are spreading the big lie. And they have a lot more weight in this country then anyone on this board.

And too many people are down playing the 6th because it failed. It does not matter that it failed. The fact that it happened to begin with is beyond troubling, the fact that those who had a hand in planning and covering it up are still in power is troubling, the fact that the main man behind it is going to run again in 2024 is not troubling it is down right scary.

So it does not matter that the coup failed. The fact we live in a country that got to the point it happened, and that it is every day being down played and excused by the media and elected officals is enough to make me scared for where this country is going.

[Kirby101]

More straight talk...

There was not a large enough degree of misinformation that it could not have been easily countered by a simple and limited effort from a Democratic nominee who was supposedly one of the most capable politicians in the history of the United States.

Getting caught up in trying to catch that mouse versus delivering results for the everyday John/Jane Public in an attempt to actually give them a reason to vote for you?

That is a foolish move. On a good day.

People don't vote for that. The Dems have delivered for the people for 90 years. Heathcare, voting rights, and a better economy every time.. The GOP has delivered tax cuts for the Rich. But they have convinced enough people that protecting their guns, ending abortion, or as in Trumps case, straight up racism, is more important than improvement in their lives. The GOP has been great in getting people to vote against their best interest. The Dems are not the equal to the GOP hecklers.

And for the record, she was an astonishingly qualified person, not a great campaigner. She still won by 3 million votes, even with Comey throwing the election to Trump with the willful help of the MSM and a foreign country's efforts against her.

[numberthirty]

https://www.salon.com/2022/01/08/joe...offer_partner/

Joe Manchin apparently no longer supports his own Build Back Better counteroffer

Citing three unnamed sources, the Post's Jeff Stein revealed that "privately, he has also made clear that he is not interested in approving legislation resembling Biden's Build Back Better package and that Democrats should fundamentally rethink their approach."

"Senior Democrats say they do not believe Manchin would support his offer even if the White House tried adopting it in full—at least not at the moment—following the fallout in mid-December," Stein continued, referencing a pair of White House statements that called out the senator by name and a Fox News appearance in which Manchin blasted the bill.

In response to Stein's revelation that Manchin's offer "may no longer be on the table," Jake Sherman of Punchbowl News tweeted that "it's definitely not."

"As of now, I have no reporting that Manchin will get back up to [$1.8 trillion]. I talk to him nearly every day and he continues to be exceedingly skeptical of anything," Sherman said. "Now, could something happen? Sure. Could it happen at [$1.8 trillion]? Maybe. Is that likely today? It doesn't seem so."