All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[numberthirty]

People don't vote for that. The Dems have delivered for the people for 90 years. Heathcare, voting rights, and a better economy every time.. The GOP has delivered tax cuts for the Rich. But they have convinced enough people that protecting their guns, ending abortion, or as in Trumps case, straight up racism, is more important than improvement in their lives. The GOP has been great in getting people to vote against their best interest. The Dems are not the equal to the GOP hucksters.

Who is asserting that?

[The Cool Thatguy]

I'll put this in simple terms, since you seem to fail to understand how "conspiracy theories" work. Conspiracy theories have no proof. What I have to back up the statement you are gaslighting us all by claiming a false equivalency that I've shared one:

There. Is. A. Goddamned. PowerPoint. Detailing. Trump's. Plan.
His. Lawyer. And. His. People. Worked. Out. Of. His. Hotel. To. Plan. It.
His. Statements. Incited. The. Mob. As. Part. Of. The. Plan. To. Pressure. Pence.
It. Was. Planned. To. The. Extent. That. Fox. News. Personalities. Tried. To. Talk. Him. Out. Of. It.

Stop. Gaslighting. Us.

Yeah, but that was only Trump's handpicked lawyers, people and cabinet. Not Trump himself, he was just an innocent babe in the woods!

[numberthirty]

As for "Dems have delivered for ninety years..."?

Just have to politely disagree a bit here.

If Dems somehow kept most folks wages from effectively stagnating for decades now?

That would be a good thing for them to point out. Which they can't because they haven't.

Folks see this, and vote(or opt not to vote...) based(in part...) on it.

Dealing with that reality will likely bear far more fruit than trying to pull a "Ghostbusters..." in a world where Facebook exists and doesn't seem to have much interest in penning the kooks in.

[Kirby101]

As for "Dems have delivered for ninety years..."?

Just have to politely disagree a bit here.

If Dems somehow kept most folks wages from effectively stagnating for decades now?

That would be a good thing for them to point out. Which they can't because they haven't.

Folks see this, and vote(or opt not to vote...) based(in part...) on it.

Dealing with that reality will likely bear far more fruit than trying to pull a "Ghostbusters..." in a world where Facebook exists and doesn't seem to have much interest in penning the kooks in.

In the last 50 years, how many years have the Dems controlled the Congress and White House? You seem to think they could counter everything the Republicans do at the National and State level in 4 out of 50 years.
So they don't vote for the Democrats because they haven't been able to stop the anti-worker onslaught by the GOP, but instead they vote for they Party that fights higher wages? That is your argument?
Like I said, it don't work that way. People don't vote with logic and reason. Trump is proof of that.

[numberthirty]

In the last 50 years, how many years have the Dems controlled the Congress and White House? You seem to think they could counter everything the Republicans do at the National and State level in 4 out of 50 years.
So they don't vote for the Democrats because they haven't been able to stop the anti-worker onslaught by the GOP, but instead they vote for they Party that fights higher wages? That is your argument?
Like I said, it don't work that way. People don't vote with logic and reason. Trump is proof of that.

That is currently the only game in town.

If you cannot find a way to get results at that game?

At the very least, don't insult the voter by trying to blame the game.

Past that?

Right now, a pair of Democrats are what is carving chunks out of BBB and getting in the way of it getting passed.

Again, folks see this and vote accordingly.

[Mister Mets]

I'll put this in simple terms, since you seem to fail to understand how "conspiracy theories" work. Conspiracy theories have no proof. What I have to back up the statement you are gaslighting us all by claiming a false equivalency that I've shared one:

There. Is. A. Goddamned. PowerPoint. Detailing. Trump's. Plan.
His. Lawyer. And. His. People. Worked. Out. Of. His. Hotel. To. Plan. It.
His. Statements. Incited. The. Mob. As. Part. Of. The. Plan. To. Pressure. Pence.
It. Was. Planned. To. The. Extent. That. Fox. News. Personalities. Tried. To. Talk. Him. Out. Of. It.

Stop. Gaslighting. Us.

I just want to be clear that we're talking about the same thing, which is your claim that Trump planned the attack on the capital. You described it as "a coordinated domestic terror attack planned by his party's president/overlord and members of his party that their die-hard militia and conspiracy supporters carried out that killed Capitol Police and wanted to capture and kill the VP or noteworthy progressives to lynch them." That is the goalpost.

What matters it the extent to which former President Trump planned the attack.

From the article, the goddamned powerpoint detailing Trump's plan does not call for people to storm the capitol. The powerpoint is bullshit claims of foreign interference, part of an effort to make some procedural arguments.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...uary-6/620998/

The article about the lawyers does not suggest there is evidence that any of them coordinated the attack.

Rhetoric about fighting and showing strength is ordinary in politics. Elizabeth Warren has a book of speeches called "Only Righteous Fights."

[numberthirty]

That's before you even get to things like Illinois.

How long have Dems been running the table here?

Did it get public sector workers well funded pensions?

Folks don't just tune all of that out.

[numberthirty]

In the last 50 years, how many years have the Dems controlled the Congress and White House? You seem to think they could counter everything the Republicans do at the National and State level in 4 out of 50 years.
So they don't vote for the Democrats because they haven't been able to stop the anti-worker onslaught by the GOP, but instead they vote for they Party that fights higher wages? That is your argument?
Like I said, it don't work that way. People don't vote with logic and reason. Trump is proof of that.

As for this...

The guy literally lost an election because voters took a logical and reasonable look at how he handled a pandemic, and voted accordingly.

So, I have to disagree a bit with that assessment.

[Tami]

I just want to be clear that we're talking about the same thing, which is your claim that Trump planned the attack on the capital. You described it as "a coordinated domestic terror attack planned by his party's president/overlord and members of his party that their die-hard militia and conspiracy supporters carried out that killed Capitol Police and wanted to capture and kill the VP or noteworthy progressives to lynch them." That is the goalpost.

What matters it the extent to which former President Trump planned the attack.

From the article, the goddamned powerpoint detailing Trump's plan does not call for people to storm the capitol. The powerpoint is bullshit claims of foreign interference, part of an effort to make some procedural arguments.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...uary-6/620998/

The article about the lawyers does not suggest there is evidence that any of them coordinated the attack.

Rhetoric about fighting and showing strength is ordinary in politics. Elizabeth Warren has a book of speeches called "Only Righteous Fights."

First, have you read Warren's book?

Second, the powerpoint was the plan that was created by Trump's inner circle. Trump himself, apparently had other ideas. Staring with his comments to the Proud Boys during the debate with Biden, the "Proud Boys — stand back and stand by" dog whistle he slipped in.

Then there was his speech on Jan 6th, encouraging those there to go to the capitol.

Then there was what Trump did while the insurrection occurred, and didn't do willingly.

[The Cool Thatguy]

When BLM was in town, Trump hid in his bunker.

When the capital was stormed, he hung out in the White House living room.

Things that make you go 'Hmm'

[Mister Mets]

When BLM was in town, Trump hid in his bunker.

When the capital was stormed, he hung out in the White House living room.

Things that make you go 'Hmm'

The difference is between viewing it as a certainty and viewing it as a possibility.

Presumably, if there was a ban on conspiracy theories that some people are calling for, it would allow discussion of prospects, as long as it's acknowledged that some meaningful and relevant information is missing.

"Covid-19 escaped from a lab in Wuhan, and the Chinese government is covering it up" or "Jeffrey Epstein was murdered on behest of rich and powerful associates worried he would reveal their involvement in underage sex trafficking" would count as conspiracy theories. There are more nuanced ways to express these as possibilities, while expressing the understanding that you may be mistaken.

[Zauriel]

When BLM was in town, Trump hid in his bunker.

When the capital was stormed, he hung out in the White House living room.

Things that make you go 'Hmm'

When the riots erupted in Washington D.C. following the assasination of MLK, the police and the national guard set up machine gun nests in the D.C.

but there were no machine gun nests in the D.C. on Jan. 6 when the insurrectionists stormed the Capital.

[Tami]

Seattle police faked radio chatter about Proud Boys as CHOP formed in 2020, investigation finds

At a crucial moment during 2020’s racial justice protests, Seattle police exchanged a detailed series of fake radio transmissions about a nonexistent group of menacing right-wing extremists.

The radio chatter about members of the Proud Boys marching around downtown Seattle, some possibly carrying guns, and then heading to confront protesters on Capitol Hill was an improper “ruse,” or dishonest ploy, that exacerbated a volatile situation, according to findings released Wednesday by the city’s Office of Police Accountability.

The Proud Boys is a far-right group with a reputation for street violence and with several members — including one from South King County — who have been charged with terrorism for alleged actions related to the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol in Washington, D.C.

The ruse happened on the night of June 8, 2020, hours after the Police Department had abandoned its East Precinct on Capitol Hill and just as protesters were starting to set up the zone that was later called the Capitol Hill Organized Protest, or CHOP.

The officers who participated described a group gathering by City Hall and moving around downtown. They delivered reports such as, “It looks like a few of them might be open carrying,” and: “Hearing from the Proud Boys group. … They may be looking for somewhere else for confrontation.”

Social media posts warning about the Proud Boys by people who were monitoring police radio transmissions caused alarm in the protest zone, where some people armed and barricaded themselves that night. Though some people in the zone may have brought guns regardless of the chatter, the ruse “improperly added fuel to the fire,” OPA Director Andrew Myerberg concluded.

[Tami]

How Trump steered America's police straight into the Oath Keepers

Last fall, an anonymous hacker leaked a list of almost 40,000 past and present members of the Oath Keepers, a paramilitary group that often recruits military and police personnel. Reporters at NPR and WNYC/Gothamist scoured the data and ran the apparent members logs against rosters of active police officers in Chicago, New York City and Los Angeles.

Now, an investigative report Friday by those same reporters reveals what many have long suspected: Active-duty police officers in some of our country’s largest departments are members of the Oath Keepers, which is also now under increased scrutiny for some members’ roles in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot. At least 18 Oath Keepers associates, including the head of the militia organization, have been charged in the Capitol assault.

The Chicago Police Department was found to have 13 active employees on the Oath Keepers membership list. The Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department had at least three active-duty deputies. And at least two active NYPD officers appeared on the list. The investigative work by this joint team of journalists to identify current cops in specific departments raises two questions about radicalization in the ranks: How did we get here, and what do we do about it?

[Xheight]

How did Congress blocked trump from helping Americans during the pandemic?

I was not referring to the pandemic response but other matters in his presidency, funding the border protection for one. His Presidency ran for four years not one.