All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Kirby101]

That was some scary ****, and that’s an understatement. Biden and the Dems need to stop screwing around, grow a pair and start fighting if they want to stop this madness. There most definitely is a real and present danger to democracy in this country, and it’s the Qpublican Party. Anyone who thinks differently is either in denial, or rooting for the crazies to win.

They won't, Manchin and Simena will sit back and watch Democracy get taken away. We will see minority rule and a Trumpian government. And when we complain we will be told that the Dems failed for not gaming the system like the Republicans. It's always the Dems fault. Not the Republicans for being underhanded and fascistic and not the voters for being idiots.

[Zauriel]

They won't, Manchin and Simena will sit back and watch Democracy get taken away. We will see minority rule and a Trumpian government. And when we complain we will be told that the Dems failed for not gaming the system like the Republicans. It's always the Dems fault. Not the Republicans for being underhanded and fascistic and not the voters for being idiots.

Watching Democrats move right instead of left during a moment of deep injustice and inequality and then weaponizing the fear of Trump to thwart any attempts to push for meaningful policy changes has forever changed my view of the party. Their objective is obedience, not progress.

The greatest threat to progress in America is the Democratic party because it sedates the public with empty platitudes of “hope and change”, which makes people feel good & feel like things are changing when in reality they govern for Wall Street, corporations & the ruling class.

Both major parties have moved to the right over the last 50 years.

The “Democratic” party is a center-right corporatist party and the GOP is a far-right fascist party.

The people have no representation in our government while Wall Street and Giant Corporations own both parties.

[Tendrin]

The Democrats have not 'moved right'. The idea that they are the 'greatest threat' to progress, rather than the actual Republican party which has blocked countless legislative efforts by actual Democratic party members, is frankly Thalman-like rhetoric and that's a terrible place to put yourself given its track record.

[Malvolio]

People who use the "both sides" argument are just trying to be above it all and give themselves an excuse for not doing anything. Sure it's hard. Nothing really worth doing in politics is easy. But that doesn't mean we should stop trying.

[Xheight]

Hmm not really. Vox, hardly a centerist publication, points to the past and predicts future in its article on polarization and where it can lead starting with the origins of Jim Crow regime emerging out of a national electoral crisis — the contested 1876 election that sought peace among the majority of the healing nation.

an anxious Democratic Party feels that it has little choice but to engage in what the Washington Post columnist Perry Bacon calls “white appeasement politics”: Think Bill Clinton’s attack on the rapper Sister Souljah, his enactment of welfare reform, and his “tough on crime” approach to criminal justice.

President Bill Clinton addresses the National Governors Association in Washington, DC, in February 1993, when he said he would allow states to use federal money for welfare reform experiments, and repeated his campaign promise to “end welfare as we know it.” J. David Ake/AFP via Getty Images
Democrats dial back their commitment to policies aimed at addressing racial inequality, including abandoning any serious attempts at reforming the police, defending affirmative action, reducing discrimination in the housing market, or restoring the Voting Rights Act. They also move to ramp up deportations (which has happened in the past) and substantially lower legal immigration levels.

Democrats and Republicans primarily compete over cross-pressured whites, while Black and Latino influence over the system is diminished. America’s status as a multiracial democracy would be questionable at best.

And they are not particularly wrong as a strategy where Bernie just the other day bemoaned the loss of the white working class to the GOP and despite what our TV commercials and a long running Replacement narrative in the press try to try to tell us we still live in a white majority country that still puts individual prosperity over ideals.

[Xheight]

People who use the "both sides" argument are just trying to be above it all and give themselves an excuse for not doing anything. Sure it's hard. Nothing really worth doing in politics is easy. But that doesn't mean we should stop trying.

Or it sounds like a recruiting commercial to on-board people who want to just get on with their lives.

Pox on both houses is a very reasonable position, especially in a country as prosperous and full of opportunity as this otherwise there would not be the flood of people trying to illegally enter it and large percentage that does not vote at all.

[babyblob]

Here is a small victory. Ohio Supreme Court strikes down The State's GOP attempt at unfair Gerrymandering.

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/...ps/6447740001/

[Xheight]

That was some scary ****, and that’s an understatement. Biden and the Dems need to stop screwing around, grow a pair and start fighting if they want to stop this madness. There most definitely is a real and present danger to democracy in this country, and it’s the Qpublican Party. Anyone who thinks differently is either in denial, or rooting for the crazies to win.

Is that not what sells ad dollars at Lib outlets and juices voter registration drives? Fear of the Orange Man and MAGA. Perhaps MORE polarization is not the answer. You might not like what people choose.

[Xheight]

Is the current negative public opinion aimed specifically at Boris? I was under the impression that it's the Conservative Party as a whole. He wasn't the only one who attended their smug party last year for example.

Is that not what was being said the last time Labour got stuffed? Tory surprise factor hasn't diminished these last few go rounds so I won't ask what the polls are saying.

Rishi Sunak or Liz Truss are still good bets to hold up. Jack has a point that Boris might be too big an person to overcome in the negatives. Think Bush post Reagan.

[Xheight]

At the risk of evoking Godwin's law:
Would denying the Holocaust be ok?

That is not just banned on most forums and social media. It's actually illegal in my country.
And the reason it is illegal is because it is a lie that is repeated to further the cause of fascism, and in my country we have seen how lies of that kind can lead to actual fascism.

And #30, we do not care if you repeat the lie in a large newspaper or standing on a soap box in a park. It's a dangerous lie, whether it convinces one person or one million. Lies that have been PROVEN to get people to act violently, to kill, to try to end democracy... They should not be allowed on a message board that took the relatable decision not to allow discussion of Comicsg**te.

Sorry but these example have little to nothing to do with truth and everything to do with power and law making all of which points to illiberality at the heart of supposed Liberal Democracy and we have seen various means of closing discourse even if they are false discourse serves truth not one bit. Okay you are not convinced that the election was stolen but banning such does no favors as does trying to shut down investigation into China's role in developing the Virus in its labs. By your line of reasoning someone could have decided nuclear energy was too dangerous to develop and no further discourse have been permitted. Just because something is dangerous does not mean it shouldn't be in the hands of adults.

Our society accepts a degree of such paternalistic attitude because for one there are times when the public does include children and we see that being invoked in argument right or wrongly. We also find it in places where there is limited feedback from the public to have the freewheeling debate and civility is something imposed rather than earned. Message boards and Social media come to mind there. The only reason the "fire" in a crowded movie theater ever makes sense is that it has no authority but every believability of good faith. The media has done far more damage to its own authority (the fact checker biz would make school of Sophists proud) than any jokester that has put good faith to the torch. We should be on guard about institutions that put authority before faith. It is possible too to discuss the Holocaust with reason as the Historikerstreit proved even in Germany.

[AnakinFlair]

RNC threatens to bar candidates from participating in official presidential debates

Makes sense. I mean, if you are taking all that time and energy to suppress the vote so that only a chosen few can, why bother to have debates?

[Xheight]

Did Georgia mix its mail-in and day-of ballots so there was no way to tell them apart? No.

The problem with the way people like you believe in conspiracy theories is that they believe them with every fiber of their being. When these ridiculous notions get disproven or shown that the chances of them being true are so infinitesimal that the absurdity that anybody still believes them becomes mind boggling, do they admit that they were wrong about that particular bit of evidence or that it might invalidate all or even part of their argument in any way? **** THAT!!! That would be a sign of weakness. They simply move on to the next bid of phony bullshit which will help them keep on believing that very same lie, as if their credibility in any public forum hasn't been utterly destroyed by their complete and utter inability to separate fact from fiction.

Call me crazy - the lawsuits were about treating them the same not if they couldn't be forensically determined to from non-traditional means. Pre-count vs. after count which you post says

in Georgia it's important to remember that the reason there's no way to tie signatures back to their actual ballots once they've been separated is because the state constitution explicitly calls for a secret ballot.

The problem with your thinking that shooting down anything that moves against the legitimacy of the state is that you shoot yourself in the foot. We know that supposed "reform" is about maintaining the virtual vote numbers (which we know were massive in 2020). The press has NOT done the investigating but generates more berating pieces that belong on the op-ed that you lap up as "proof"! Easy to take pot shots at tweets, harder to do the real work of rooting out the substance. Too bad the liberal mind can't make up its mind of whether to fight the power or be part of it. Maybe that's the true mark of modern elitism to try and have it both ways, a dotcom millionaire looking to make sure his maid is getting a living wage.

From the petion in GA

Attached hereto as Exhibit A is the
Declaration of Sean Pumphrey regarding what he witnessed.
15.
Despite attempts by the poll watcher to obtain information from the CCBE
regarding the source of the absentee ballots in mixed into other, already-processed
absentee ballots being tabulated in Chatham County, no information to confirm the
source of such absentee ballots was provided to the poll watcher. Ex. A. Whether the
absentee ballots had been received by the CCBE prior to the close of the polls at 7:00 P.M.
on Election Day or that all such absentee ballots are being safely stored in accordance
with O.C.G.A. § 21-2-386(a)(1)(F) remains unknown. As a result, Petitioners do not know

whether absentee ballots in Chatham County are being sufficiently accounted for or
whether absentee ballots received after the close of the polls at 7:00 P.M on Election Day
are being safely stored by the CCBE in accordance with Georgia law.

ruling - No Evidence, Dismissal

WTF

[Xheight]

Fauci: There are threats against my life 'because people are lying about me'

Because calling for someone to be fired is the same as endangering someone or calling for them to be killed? The leap here is huge. Has it nothing to do with people Die from Covid? Like so much of our government, Fauci claims immunity from accountability as if that is why they took the job in the first place. What we really have is Selective Accountability, if you have enough "good intention" piled up in you social signal bank you get a hall pass.

[Kirby101]

Oath Keepers leader and 10 others charged with 'seditious conspiracy' related to US Capitol attack

Yes, what happened January 6th was nothing short of open rebellion against the lawful and legitimate Government. All involved, right up to the Orange Ringleader, need to be brought to justice.

[shooshoomanjoe]

Oath Keepers leader and 10 others charged with 'seditious conspiracy' related to US Capitol attack

Yes, what happened January 6th was nothing short of open rebellion against the lawful and legitimate Government. All involved, right up to the Orange Ringleader, need to be brought to justice.

Looks like conservatives won't be able to say "how can you call it an insurrection when no one's been charged with insurrection" anymore.