All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Tendrin]

Absolutely. I can name a bunch of channels that I am aware of (even used to watch some of them) that have fallen into the hate hole screaming that every non-pasty actor in any role is "fake woke casting" or something similar.

The only reason Bongino got cancelled is because he wasn't bringing in the bucks compared to the attention his hateful conduct was getting. Plenty of lesser known but equally malignant actors are still hard at work.

[Mister Mets]

I'm not talking about abortion meds, I'm suggesting that some of these "religious exemption" laws seem so vague that I wonder if a pharmacist can refuse to fill out a prescription for, say, thyroid medicine because they object to someone's "gay lifestyle."

For those who don't know, if you don't take thyroid medication it can be fatal. Past a certain point it becomes required to live.

What laws are you referring to?

But what if he had politely told a heterosexual, Christian black couple he would not make cakes for their kind?

He's willing to make cakes for gay couples, just not gay weddings. If he were to refuse to make a cake for a heterosexual Christian black couple's wedding, I'm very curious about how he would go about making a religious exemption argument.

The problem I have with a lot of these services that won't work a gay wedding is that they're so coy about it. They sell stuff to gay couples for years, but when the gay couple asks for the services for their wedding, thinking they're asking a friend, that friend suddenly turns their back on them. If you own a business and don't want to provide services for gay weddings, you should have a sign in your window stating that. Then let's see what happens.

Should all business owners be compelled to articulate controversial positions?

This seems like it can backfire on the left.

[Mister Mets]

Well that would make them heroes in their own and community's eyes true to SJW ideals of themselves. I seriously don't think they are paying their own way either.

It does depend on their community.

Never assume that a business owner is your friend.

That's a fair point.

So, right wingers and conservatives who chide and gleefully insult us liberals for being “snowflakes” are, themselves, the worst sort of thinskinned whiners who need their tender feelings protected from their inability to accept the reality of the country’s horribly racist past and the part their ancestors played in this ongoing nightmare. The truth of the matter is that ignoring or whitewashing history DOESN’T make it go away.

I wonder if we can agree on some principles here.

1. Some white people are overly sensitive.
2. No one is responsible for the sins of their ancestors. Anyone who suggests otherwise should not receive taxpayer money to do so.
3. Some DEI training is dumb, run and operated by people who says stupid things about white people. They should not receive taxpayer money to do so.
4. We should mindful about what type of diversity training is effective. Taxpayer money shouldn't go towards something that is counterproductive, or just done for show.

We can respond to the overly sensitive white people by noting that they are incorrect in their inferences.

[thwhtGuardian]

What laws are you referring to?

He's willing to make cakes for gay couples, just not gay weddings. If he were to refuse to make a cake for a heterosexual Christian black couple's wedding, I'm very curious about how he would go about making a religious exemption argument.

Should all business owners be compelled to articulate controversial positions?

This seems like it can backfire on the left.

The racist who wouldn't make a cake would use the same argument as the homophobic baker...it's not hard to realize that both are bad.

[Jack Dracula]

Eric Clapton said he wouldn't play venues with vaccine mandates. But when he realized that there were very few venues that didn't have vaccine mandates, he backed down. Kid Rock will do the same sooner or later.

Or not. Either way, who cares? At the end of the day, he's only hurting himself, and I'm OK with that.

Fox's Dan Bongino was permanently banned from YT. I'm glad social media is taking misinformation seriously.

Doing the bare minimum at this stage is arguably a token gesture, but I'd still rather see the minimum over zero.

[Malvolio]

You mean people actually want to see Kid Rockhead? I'm amazed.

Yes, there are. I myself enjoy a lot of Kid Rock's music. You don't have to hate everything about someone just because their political opinions are hateful.

[Malvolio]

What laws are you referring to?

He's willing to make cakes for gay couples, just not gay weddings. If he were to refuse to make a cake for a heterosexual Christian black couple's wedding, I'm very curious about how he would go about making a religious exemption argument.

Should all business owners be compelled to articulate controversial positions?

This seems like it can backfire on the left.

Why not? If you argue that it's a very important issue for you when you're called out on it, why not be completely open and honest about it?

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Yes, there are. I myself enjoy a lot of Kid Rock's music. You don't have to hate everything about someone just because their political opinions are hateful.

Then I stand corrected.

[Mister Mets]

Why not? If you argue that it's a very important issue for you when you're called out on it, why not be completely open and honest about it?

In most cases, the controversial view is alienating.

If someone's selling canoes, it's going to be offputting if they reveal unpopular left-wing positions (anyone who is a member of an organized religion is deeply flawed, anyone against open borders is racist and xenophobic, anyone not on the squad/ Bernie Sanders/ Elizabeth Warren side of the Democratic party is ignorant and worthy of scorn, etc.) It's unnecessary.

The racist who wouldn't make a cake would use the same argument as the homophobic baker...it's not hard to realize that both are bad.

In your very specific example, even racist Christian bakers would typically believe it is a good thing when black Christians marry one another.

[skyvolt2000]

Isn't the best argument for discussions of racism that an honest discussion is not going to hurt anyone's feelings, because no one is going to be blamed for things beyond their control, like the color of their skin?

Correct.

And I would say that would apply to those who love to blame every single crime by ONE POC person on every single POC. A point many POC have yelled about that too many folks especially the snowflakes trying to pass these laws have tried to do or allowed Fox News to encourage them to do.

So why do we have to care about white kid's feelings and not the feelings of every kid of color that has been called everything in the book? For stuff they did not do?

[skyvolt2000]

What laws are you referring to?

He's willing to make cakes for gay couples, just not gay weddings. If he were to refuse to make a cake for a heterosexual Christian black couple's wedding, I'm very curious about how he would go about making a religious exemption argument.

Should all business owners be compelled to articulate controversial positions?

If that business does NOT want to serve certain folks-why NOT be honest about it and accept the consequences?

If you don't want black customers what do you do? You don't set up shop in places where a large black population is.

Do understand those consequences will affect your bottom LINE.

Companies that are open to everybody tend to make more than those who don't.

There is a reason you are seeing more diverse ads from certain companies that were NOT doing that at first.

[Kirby101]

In most cases, the controversial view is alienating.

In your very specific example, even racist Christian bakers would typically believe it is a good thing when black Christians marry one another.

And if they see mixed race couples an affront to God, then not making a cake for them is A-okay? Cause it's religion then.

[shooshoomanjoe]

And if they see mixed race couples an affront to God, then not making a cake for them is A-okay? Cause it's religion then.

Do they dislike mixed race couples or just whites who mix with other races.

[Xheight]

Correct.

And I would say that would apply to those who love to blame every single crime by ONE POC person on every single POC. A point many POC have yelled about that too many folks especially the snowflakes trying to pass these laws have tried to do or allowed Fox News to encourage them to do.

So why do we have to care about white kid's feelings and not the feelings of every kid of color that has been called everything in the book? For stuff they did not do?

That misrepresents the prejudice and I do say prejudice as a matter of pre-judging based on cumulative experience and evidence. Asians have high scores and disproportionally apply apply to Ivy Leagues.

William Fitzsimmons, the 30-year dean of admissions, who oversees the screening process of about 40,000 applicants and narrows them down to 2,000 acceptance letters that are handed out each year, testified that African-Americans, Native Americans, and Hispanic high schoolers with mid-range SAT scores out of a possible 1600 combined math and verbal, are sent recruitment letters with a score as low as 1100, whereas Asian-Americans need to score at least 250 points higher – 1350 for women and 1380 for men.

It is not ONE smart kid ruining things for an individual asian to be judged on their own merit but a preponderance of the sample. That would be an HONEST discussion. No individual should be held to a group pattern.

[Catlady in training]

There are two major distinctions.

With the cakeshop, the controversy is that he refused to make cakes for specific occasions. He would serve the customer in most cases. Obviously, weddings are important events, where people are more likely to commission premium cakes, but there is an element of speech to it. One way I think about it though is whether a baker should be compelled to make a cake congratulating a controversial politician's reelection if they're willing to pay. A baker shouldn't have to make a cake for a gay wedding if he's against gay marriage, nor should another have to make a cake to congratulate Marjorie Taylor Greene if he's against her.

The sitcom Will & Grace did an episode about situation like that. Grace heard that Karen was refused a service at cakeshop and assumed that it was something like the gay wedding cake and was all ready to go fight the owner. Only to learn that they refused to bake a MAGA cake for then president's party. She changed the course quickly, but was called on that being hypocritical. At the end, she went to argue that Karen was allowed to have her MAGA cake, even if she completely disagreed with it. It was actually interesting to watch and made some good points, I think.

Like I said this is just me. I wouldnt make a deal of it if he didnt want to make my cake. I admit I struggle with how far I am willing to go as far as someone saying they dont agree with my life. I dont care if they agree and if they are no hateful or rude then I dont make an issue. Just say okay we disagree and move on. This has cost me many of my gay friends because they think I dont care about the gay movement and cause.

I very much care. T here are just kore important things in the world then going to court for a couple years over a cake. Even more so when other bakers in the same town heard the story and said "That shitty ill make your cake no charge."

I live in a house where my dad is supportive of me being gay but disagrees with gay marriage. There are more important things to get worked up over.

I am sorry to hear you had such bad experience with your friends. This is what I think is worst about this debate, it is not really that serious issue and it created so much division among people. There is enough of the more important suff for that kind of division, but for some reason people often get caught up in these smaller things. I guess they sound more interesting or something.

What further laws are necessary for LGBT+ rights?

Just to cover the US and what I have heard of, I would say that transgender rights are still quite endangered. There was that thing about banning medication for transgender children in Texas last year (not sure now if this was just Texas or another state as well).

Also, there seems to be an increased push to ban books about any LGBT+ topics in some schools and libraries:
https://bookriot.com/lgbtq-books-qui...middle-school/
https://www.mississippifreepress.org...brary-funding/

Once again, it is one side that seeks to ban topics they don't agree with.