All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[SUPERECWFAN1]

My, and I assume any american's concern, about classified documents is who else gets to look at them without authorization. The highest classified person taking physical documents to a not easily accessed location and having the absolute power to declassify at will compared to a easily copied electronic format of perhaps compromising materials being held by someone other than the president themselves seems like apples and oranges.

This is a man who complained he couldn't work the central air in the White House. Him taking actual physical classified material home with him is A HELL OF A LOT more dangerous than Hillary's emails.

[Xheight]

People love Trump for the racism, because he hates minorities like they do. If there’s another reason for that unwavering support, I’d love to know what it is.

*edit* People love Trump because of the over prioritization racism in a country where minorities are minorities. Distorted priorities lead to distorted governance and loss of focus on what is real. Real things like Crime, Inflation and Wages which lack of opportunity, overspending, and oversupplying the labor market help drive.

[Xheight]

This is a man who complained he couldn't work the central air in the White House. Him taking actual physical classified material home with him is A HELL OF A LOT more dangerous than Hillary's emails.

Considering that you probably don't consider him qualified for any decision making doesn't disqualify him for what he was empowered to do by the people that put him office. Once again the outcry of the technocrats is that only someone that thinks as they do is qualified to run the machinery of government. Its a kind of wacky Scientism of sorts.

[Xheight]

The arrogance here is astounding.

They start a war of aggression, they become an international pariah, they are banned from participating in international soccer, but they'll still put in a bid to host a tournament.

meanwhile the FIFA world cup is still going to be in Qatar this year. This is why morals and sport are so mocked.

[Mister Mets]

Texas is about to overturn Obergefell in the legislature. They will stop recognizing same sex couples. The SC may or may not overturn that. (As they have refused to overturn the Texas oppressive abortion law). And even if the SC does, Texas will ignore them. As we learned with Trump, there is no governing body to uphold the Constitution as long as the GOP can obstruct.

And Sen, Braun of Indiana thinks Loving should be overturned and up to the States. But according to the Racist GOP Critical Race Theory is the real danger.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...ia/7131891001/

Loving is the SC decision that stopped States from outlawing interracial marriage.

Braun said that he misunderstood the question.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...that-legalized

Granted, that would suggest that at best he's not as smart as a Senator should be.

What Texas legislative moves are you referring to?

Ive said it on here so many times before. At this point voting for the GOP makes you a hate monger, racist, homo/transphone. I dont want to hear the crap of well there are other issues. I dont like this one part but...

Voting for people who support this crap, people who vote for them but say Hey dont lump me in I am not like them. BS! Trying to hide behind your own hatred of people and support hate but hey im a nice person, i support gay and trans rights, black people are fine. Now let me go vote for the GOP.

They are talking out of their ass. I am sick of it and the people who support and enable them.

Many people aren't single issue voters.

The major change in recent politics is that Democrats are moving much more to the left. This makes it hard for many to support a party.

Yep, that's why I've been focused on it. They're just the tip of the wedge.

Meanwhile, for all the crying over Lia Thomas...

https://twitter.com/etotheipie/statu...70343090135041



She would have lost to three of the last four other women competing who won. Her times are not so different than any other woman's, as people who know anything about trans athletes have been telling people for years. We only hear the whines from transphobes when they win, which is gonna happen sometimes if you let them compete at all, and all the times they *lose* there's not a peep since it doesn't play into the transphobic narrative.



So, 'born male and therefore advantaged' athlete Lia Thomas would've lost every swim meet except for 2021, 2013, and 2012 at a glance here. In a ten way race between these athletes with these times, she would've placed seventh. Wanna bet we'd never have heard her name if she had?

The winner of a silver or bronze medal in a prestigious event is typically not considered a loser.

Right now, there isn't a universal standard, but most athletic organizations have made HRT and meeting certain testosterone levels through testoserone suppression a necessity. Here in Oregon, HRT for at least a year is required. This has in fact caught some cis women, like Caster Semenya, in the crosshairs who has naturally higher testosterone than what is considered 'average' and has led to gross speculation as to whether or not she's a 'man' or 'intersex' or 'trans', because she does not meet a 'femme' standard of what a woman is 'supposed' to be. This is why rules against trans athletes ultimately harm women. It is inevitable, unfortunately. This is, in fact, one of the problems with much of the science surrounding trans athletes. They compare any individual trans woman against what is presumed the 'average' for cis women, rather than the *average for cis women athletes*, or against other women with high-T. For all the talk of 'fairness' and 'unfairness', trans women actually competing at a high enough level to win events is spectacularly rare. It's why we hear about it in the news when they do finally win.

There's no great rush of men jumping to transition for an 'easier' win, despite the moral panic over 'girls sports' conservatives are trying to foster. Trans women are women, and don't really perform appreciably differently from women in the contests they compete in.


Here's a former pro-swimmer on the matter:

Attachment 119516

Attachment 119517

The Caster Semenya situation is a bit more complex, as she does appear to

The arrogance here is astounding.



They start a war of aggression, they become an international pariah, they are banned from participating in international soccer, but they'll still put in a bid to host a tournament.

There may be something else going on. It gives an excuse to claim that the world is biased against them.

At this point I honestly think the whole thing shouldn't have been televised. It's just a bunch of idiots trying to be as horrible as possible and going through the most fake scripted meltdowns int order to create clips for the evening Fox News shows. Absolutely no value to any of this at all, if they turned off the cameras most of them would probably just go home.

Maybe.

An additional issue with a lot of hearings is that a lot of Senators ask the same questions so that they get clips for ads that make it look like this one Senator asked something essential.

[Panfoot]

Braun said that he misunderstood the question.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...that-legalized

Granted, that would suggest that at best he's not as smart as a Senator should be.

What Texas legislative moves are you referring to?

Is there literally *any* horrible thing a Republican can say that you won't try and whitewash away?

[Mister Mets]

If you want to pretend it was just about the subtitle instead of your behavior after how often I've explained it then go on, but it's another thing about this I'll have to keep in mind.



The way you are acting here, if a question is even slightly loaded (I.E. Unconsciously) it cannot be answered. I disagree as you received several answers to your rights questions.



Well I took my time and waited until after work to get at this because I figured it deserved it if I was going to be searching for info and reading a few links and I wanted to pay attention. You took your time to make the post I'm replying to so you understand why it's a good idea. It's better to give fuller explanations in the beginning to forestall extra questions being necessary IMO, as it helps to cut off misunderstandings before they happen.



And in this case they've been investigating these parents for Child Abuse related to their trans children for years around the country, so there is an abundance of relevant reports for the media to have gotten ahold of.



If you'll excuse me, but I think I'll take anything Rufo puts out with a block of salt.



You asserting that most of the schoolteachers in the country have their decisions affected by CRT without actual evidence does nothing but aid in Rufo's efforts to drum up a CRT boogeyman.



Would we have disagreed with any Republican President? Sure but he wouldn't have stomped on the norms and humanity left in our political theater, nor would he have exposed the fact that our system of checks and balances only works if the most intransigent political party allows it to happen. Trump did things no other republican president would have, and did things that they would in ways they wouldn't have thought of before him. He has taken control of the GoP and stripped away any morality they had left as part of a process that continues to this day as he's calling for us to directly threaten Russia with nukes. Considering you couldn't vote for him in 2020 I'm sure you don't consider him generally the same as any Republican President either, and what we have going on is not your average culture war and should not be dismissed lightly.



What negotiation is there to "Don't be a bigot to people"? They are using laws and more to codify their anti-trans prejudice and there should be no negotiation about having it removed, it simply should be. Why is this even an issue?

We've seen the same hate laws used time and time again with different targets in this country and we always wind up with 'They were never valid to begin with' so why don't we just fast forward now?



A simple google search came up with tons of links of descriptions of what it is like to transition, and even WebMD has a pretty simple description of the process including stressing what is reversible and what is not. The facts are out there if anyone takes the time to look, and I'm sure they have been provided many times to people making the calls to CPA about parents abusing their child by calling them by their chosen gender to no effect.



This has nothing to do with the literal child abuse we were seeing and that these voters who you seem to say are so analytical and are choosing not to vote for specific reasons like this rather than them being convinced for years that their vote doesn't count or that all politicians are the problem. They don't care enough to vote when their own lives are on the line with COVID (I caught it last month despite all my precautions it was very frightening though a mild case) and they don't care when other people are being abused and dying. They aren't suddenly going to come around because border security has firmed up or the GDP has risen under the current administration. Lets face it, Capatalism and this modern society we live in promotes selfishness above very little else.



https://www.science.org/content/arti...ance-including
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/articl...19?login=false

These are just a couple of the links I could find here (Thanks Tendrin!) on the subject, and I'm sure others who know more about this subject could provide more as my exposure is this thread.



Seeing as any blanket ban would affect non-trans youth as well who will occasionally need it, I think this is a bad goalpost to have. You might as well say something similar to "Progressives would oppose a blanket ban on Sodomy" if they tried to outlaw it just for the LGBT as there are more than a few straight folks who partake.

How about we just don't ban stuff based on bigotry and not classify things as child abuse for the same hate & fear? Isn't that something reasonable people can agree on?

Again, I don't think my behavior was that bad. Saying an argument is weak is hardly a serious insult, even if based on a misunderstanding when you say you were just asking a question, and didn't mean to imply anything.

A loaded question by definition has a faulty premise, so it can't be answered accurately. The main way to respond would be to answer "the note behind the note," the underlying concern, although there may still be a misunderstanding because it requires responding to things that aren't fully articulated. The other response would be to note how the question is loaded, and ask for it to be rephrased.

If you're familiar with empirical information about the numbers of child abuse allegations related to affirmation of trans children, by all means share it.

The New Yorker profile of Rufo was not written by a supporter.

We may arguing past one another with my assertion that most teachers in their country are affected by CRT. It's the equivalent of saying that most movie directors are affected by the Soviet montage movement or Nazi propaganda, in that if they haven't seen actual examples (and many film buffs have) they've seen and been informed by those that have been influenced by the work. But it doesn't mean that most filmmakers agree with Stalin or Hitler.

I don't think Trump is the same as any typical President, which is why I'll note when people suggest that standard right-wing points are unique to him.

There is always going to be some negotiation because lawmaking is hard. Among other things, we'll have other definitions about what it means to be a bigot, and whether laws meant to help are harmful (for example- discomfort asking about the biological sex of a patient means that some medical problems will be diagnosed later than is ideal.)

There are a lot of unknown details when it comes to transgender children, because we haven't had this level of treatment before. Looking at the WebMd link, they'll note that the use of puberty blockers for transgender children is off-label and new, so we don't know much about the long-term effects. Doctors sometimes start 13 to 14 year olds on cross-sex hormones, and there's a lot we don't know about the long-term side effects, although potential sterility is confirmed.

Capitalism beats the alternative. Socialism hardly promotes individuality since everyone who doesn't benefit the larger society

The links about trans athletes don't disprove the idea that there are some competitive advantages.

Finally, reasonable people may disagree on whether a ban is because of hate & fear.

[Mister Mets]

Is there literally *any* horrible thing a Republican can say that you won't try and whitewash away?

I think it's a possible that a person who I consider to be an intellectual lightweight didn't realize what he was saying.

To be clear, I'm a bit familiar with Braun because I know someone who worked for Todd Rokita, a Congressman who ran against Braun for Senate. And the general perception is that Braun isn't that bright. Obviously many racists aren't all that bright, but a Senator with below-average intellect is more likely to make mistakes in interviews.

You

There is no version of that where it does not amount to "Let's spend a hundred bucks to fix a five dollar problem just so we can say that we actually fixed it..."

Never mind that dialing back the "America being America..." dial from "Eleven..." to about "Six..."/"Seven..." probably solves all of that without so much as a finger lifted.

The main time Visa overstays comes up in arguments is when there's a discussion on the border and someone says that Visa overstays represent the biggest source of undocumented immigrants. It's about how we're focusing on the wrong thing, rather than the implication that this isn't a problem at all.

The general solution would be to go after Visa overstays because we have records of who they are. This doesn't mean the country has to provide less Visas, or have any major change in immigration policy.

I don't know what more to say, if they're terrible people then they're terrible people and deserve to be labeled so...and its not all conservatives either, I know more than a few that have no problem breaking with their party to say that trans-rights are simple human rights...you just choose not to be a decent human being and that's no one else's problem but your own.

Like I've said dozens of times now, there can be two rational but opposing sides to many issues where neither side is evil just for holding a different position...it's just that transrights aren't one of them in the same way there is only one rational side for the "Jewish Question" or the " Negro Problem" and it's if you don't think they're normal humans then you're despicable.

I get it, it isn't fun being called a mouth breather...but it's also very easy not to be labeled one: don't say bigoted things, don't support or defend bigoted people or politicians and denounce bigoted policies when you see them. If you can do those things you will never get lumped into being called something terrible.

And yeah, in isolation almost 700 thousand people seems like a lot...but in context it's the much, much smaller number in terms of aliens working and living in the US..and it's a ridiculously small number in comparison to the whole population of the US. You have to be really bad at math to think 1% of people "abusing" the system is a big issue. And it's especially a positive number when you consider that 62% of all people illegally in the US are those who overstayed their visas...so if that number is minuscule when compared to our over all population then it means those crossing our borders with out obtaining visas at all must be even more insignificant.

Undecided voters are generally not conservatives. They're usually moderates, independents or people whose views are all over the map.
The binary of right and wrong is probably not the best understanding of the issue.

American society is now better on issues of race and antisemitism, but there are still unresolved questions. Should Jewish characters be played by actors who aren't Jewish? How should colleges and employers treat black applicants? Policies that are meant to help people in a group often backfire. Bans on background checks for job applicants led to less callbacks for African-Americans without criminal records.

Someone can believe that trans people are worthy of the same things others are, but be uncomfortable with hormone therapy without mental health screenings, or athletes who were born male competing against women. As a comparison, we don't allow failed NFL players to go back to college football and that's not about ageism.

As for peoples' response to being called mouth-breathers, they're not going to care about what they can do to earn your respect. You're the one who insulted them.

Regarding the number of overstays, a one percent rate can be bad. If a doctor commits malpractice with one percent of his patients, or one percent of people at a store are shoplifters, that is a major problem.

As a minor note, the 62% statistic is for one year rather than indicating that 62 percent of current undocumented immigrants did so by overstaying their Visa. But this is something that we can fix, without jettisoning the system.

[skyvolt2000]

At this point I honestly think the whole thing shouldn't have been televised. It's just a bunch of idiots trying to be as horrible as possible and going through the most fake scripted meltdowns int order to create clips for the evening Fox News shows. Absolutely no value to any of this at all, if they turned off the cameras most of them would probably just go home.

Yeah but it gives ammo for the other side to show this how you vote and tax dollars goes to waste.

I mean Cruz probably made it easier for folks to avoid moving to where he is Senator at.

[babyblob]

Many people aren't single issue voters.

The major change in recent politics is that Democrats are moving much more to the left. This makes it hard for many to support a party.

Yep. So they go and support a party of Racists, treason supporters, Homo/Transphobs, woman haters, Need I go on with their parade of hate. So yea that still makes them and every one who forgives them and vote for them shitty people.

Justify it how ever you want.

[thwhtGuardian]

I think it's a possible that a person who I consider to be an intellectual lightweight didn't realize what he was saying.

To be clear, I'm a bit familiar with Braun because I know someone who worked for Todd Rokita, a Congressman who ran against Braun for Senate. And the general perception is that Braun isn't that bright. Obviously many racists aren't all that bright, but a Senator with below-average intellect is more likely to make mistakes in interviews.

The main time Visa overstays comes up in arguments is when there's a discussion on the border and someone says that Visa overstays represent the biggest source of undocumented immigrants. It's about how we're focusing on the wrong thing, rather than the implication that this isn't a problem at all.

The general solution would be to go after Visa overstays because we have records of who they are. This doesn't mean the country has to provide less Visas, or have any major change in immigration policy.


Undecided voters are generally not conservatives. They're usually moderates, independents or people whose views are all over the map.
The binary of right and wrong is probably not the best understanding of the issue.

American society is now better on issues of race and antisemitism, but there are still unresolved questions. Should Jewish characters be played by actors who aren't Jewish? How should colleges and employers treat black applicants? Policies that are meant to help people in a group often backfire. Bans on background checks for job applicants led to less callbacks for African-Americans without criminal records.

Someone can believe that trans people are worthy of the same things others are, but be uncomfortable with hormone therapy without mental health screenings, or athletes who were born male competing against women. As a comparison, we don't allow failed NFL players to go back to college football and that's not about ageism.

As for peoples' response to being called mouth-breathers, they're not going to care about what they can do to earn your respect. You're the one who insulted them.

Regarding the number of overstays, a one percent rate can be bad. If a doctor commits malpractice with one percent of his patients, or one percent of people at a store are shoplifters, that is a major problem.

As a minor note, the 62% statistic is for one year rather than indicating that 62 percent of current undocumented immigrants did so by overstaying their Visa. But this is something that we can fix, without jettisoning the system.

Regarding the bold part...there are no reasons to give an inch. You support them or you don't. It's sad that you can't see that. By adding addendums and reservations to support you allow a wedge to be driven where there shouldn't be one its as simple as that. If you support transpeople then you trust them to make their own decisions...it's that simple. Worrying about, "what if they regret their decision? We should legislate to protect them from that." is invasive and horribly wrong.

And I don't want the mouth breathers respect and they caused the insult by choosing to be ignorant, all I want is people to be protected from their evil its as simple as that. Eventually they'll age out and go away, and until then it's just the rest of society's job to tell them to shut up with their ignorant views.

Don't want to be lumped with them Mets? Then don't support people and ideas that are deplorable. I showed you an elected Republican who manages to break with the rot of his party so it's not unheard of. Stop being a terrible human. It's easy.

[achilles]

French car maker Renault first reopened their Moscow factory, then today closed it again after Zelinsky shamed the French government.

[numberthirty]

...

The main time Visa overstays comes up in arguments is when there's a discussion on the border and someone says that Visa overstays represent the biggest source of undocumented immigrants. It's about how we're focusing on the wrong thing, rather than the implication that this isn't a problem at all.

The general solution would be to go after Visa overstays because we have records of who they are. This doesn't mean the country has to provide less Visas, or have any major change in immigration policy.

...

Or...

We could point out the obvious fact that this sort of "Whack-A-Mole..." nonsense is the same sort of garbage that wasted unacceptable amounts of money on prosecuting pot laws during the drug war.

Deciding to kick off a game of Whack-A-Mole over something that amounts to percentage that small?

Past time that we were up front with Americans about just how stupid that sort of an approach would actually be.

Meanwhile, actually addressing that America being America when it comes to our drug laws turning other countries into Mega Cities?

That probably deals with the "Problem..." in question in a far more decisive fashion.

[CSTowle]

My, and I assume any american's concern, about classified documents is who else gets to look at them without authorization. The highest classified person taking physical documents to a not easily accessed location and having the absolute power to declassify at will compared to a easily copied electronic format of perhaps compromising materials being held by someone other than the president themselves seems like apples and oranges.

How about shredding, cutting up, or flushing those documents when it violates Federal law? How about showing them to his Russian buddies and compromising our allies? Sounds like rotten apples to me.

*edit* People love Trump because of the over prioritization racism in a country where minorities are minorities. Distorted priorities lead to distorted governance and loss of focus on what is real. Real things like Crime, Inflation and Wages which lack of opportunity, overspending, and oversupplying the labor market help drive.

Right, people who are consistently disadvantaged by the system because they're not the majority/default "norm" deserve to be second class citizens because they're not the majority. A return to a 19th century mindset. Just because a problem isn't a problem for you doesn't mean it isn't "real" and shouldn't be focused on. Certain groups being targeted by their skin color for extra police attention, discriminated against for everything from jobs to housing to loans etc. and making up a disproportionate amount of our prison population (where they're treated as free labor for private industry, another callback to the 19th century) is a problem if they're 1% of the population or near a fifth. Before you factor in the wealth built on the backs of their ancestors and the debt owed, or the century and a half of lesser but still horrific burdens and discrimination they've suffered.

meanwhile the FIFA world cup is still going to be in Qatar this year. This is why morals and sport are so mocked.

What do you know, we're up to two things I agree with you on.

[Catlady in training]

I can't believe it has been a month already.

Biden arrives in Brussels to join NATO, EU and G7 summits about the war. Hopefully, it will stop people complaining that he doesn't do enough.
RL="https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/23/joe-biden-europe-russia-ukraine-nato-g7-european-council"]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/23/joe-biden-europe-russia-ukraine-nato-g7-european-council[/URL]

Russian athletes continue to be dumb:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...at-putin-rally

And Russia thinks they will join the G20 summit later this year, as if nothing was wrong. To the surprise of no one, China backs them up. I would comment on the nerve of these people, but what's the point, they apparently live in a separate reality.