All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[numberthirty]

That $200 penalty is beyond ridiculous. That's not even a slap on the wrist.

...

To give her just a little bit of credit...

She did eventually come around to, maybe, doing the right thing once some arm twisting had happened.

That said, her "Knee Jerk..." reaction that is roughly "Well, what's the problem with this being about as closed to 'Rigged...' as possible? CAPITALISM, Bro..." is certainly in line with this guy just being able to buy Twitter straight up.

Just a lot of "Wrong Headed..." thinking, to me...

[Dalak]

There isn't much of a controversy about a generic message of respecting differences. The main question is the age at which kids should be told about specific differences. In most cases, we don't think kindergarteners should all be told about the life expectancy of people with sickle-cell anemia.

Those with sickle cell anemia aren't in the process of having their right to marry taken away if many conservatives had their wish, so getting children comfortable with LGBT helps prevent prejudice and death unlike discussing diseases which being LGBT is not.

First, it does seem that people here and in the media are happy to call out GOP leadership. But if you guys think it's fine for either party's leadership to wrongly disparage people, that argument should be made explicitly. I want to understand where people are coming from.

One of the arguments is that the GOP is so much worse that it's important for people who disagree with Democrats and the left to support them. Anyone making that argument does insist that Democrats be held to a high standard.

If one refuses to hold many to account for it, they shouldn't act as if one person is crossing a line and curious as to why it's not belittled. I think that it's punishable to lie if you take 1 dollar of public money, and I've made that stance clear for years. I've been told how difficult to prove it might be and how one person's lie is another's misunderstanding and I think those are excuses which allow the lies and misinformation to continue. That applies to everyone from the president to someone at the DMV, and it would damn Pelosi in this case if she's lying as well. However the reality is that when so many are doing it, calling out just 1 person you disagree with politically when giving many a pass is gross hypocrisy and I've mentioned how that is something I despise.

There are two separate concepts.
"There is a significant increase in females identifying as trans, rather than males."
"Young females transition at a rate FAR more than young males."
I can show evidence for #1, which is a well-documented phenomenon. I haven't argued #2.
The increase in females identifying as trans is what I was looking at.
It used to be that there were significantly more out trans men than trans women; it's possible for there to still be more trans women transitioning, even if there is an increase in trans men. It'd be like there would still be a big scientific question if there was an increase in men developing breast cancer, even if women still more likely to develop it.

The fact of an increase is still widely known and not controversial. I wonder if one reason for disagreements on this topic is that I'm familiar with information many of you aren't aware of.

Would you please provide that study of American children to confirm all of this before we continue this debate? I've mentioned before how important it is that we get our facts straight as so far you keep saying there is ample evidence for things you haven't provided.

I think we've got a lot of people arguing past one another on CRT, which hinders communication.

I met the goalpost in that given the sheer amount of professional training and material, pretty much every teacher receives some material at some point influenced by CRT, so most teachers are influenced by CRT. There are separate questions about the degree to which it occurs, or whether it's a bad thing.

And as the people who are making policy aren't clarifying it as you do, they are using it as a boogeyman to attack much more in schools than the CRT that isn't there, on top of Don't Say Gay laws. This started because you claimed that conservatives just wanted schools to teach reading writing and arithmetic and ignored these very big and in-the-news issues that are impacting Math textbooks and more.

In general, I don't think we should have the power to say that someone's incorrect beliefs mean they can't graduate from a standard education program. There may be some edge cases (IE- antivaxxers should not be pharmacists.)

This is something difficult to adjudicate and prone to abuse. Who would get to determine which views are obviously incorrect, where do they get their authority and who would be able to make sure they're doing their job correctly?

Since I agreed with you that it should prevent graduation, I have no idea why you are going on like I disagreed. I mentioned how vehement disbelief in Evolution is a sign they would be a poor representative of people who do not agree with them given the freedom to believe or not as one chooses. Nor does it address the point that many legislators in the GoP are trying to advocate for it to be watered down if not removed from teaching outright.

It's simple to adjudicate though: If someone has beliefs which aren't shared by all their constituents to the point where they argue against facts, science, and common sense to stubbornly hold on to them, they won't be good at governing others. Many christian lawmakers don't seem to have those problems with LGBT and Evolution, and those I have no issue with governing based on how they don't force their beliefs on others - something the first amendment should prohibit.

[Kevinroc]

Wasn't that long ago that Musk was a hero. What happened?

He smeared a man as a pedophile.

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...e-pedo-twitter

[JackDaw]

He smeared a man as a pedophile.

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...e-pedo-twitter

Was surprised when he got away with that in court without losing a load of damages. But no surprise I suppose that he has good lawyers.

[JB]

"I am not going on Twitter, I am going to stay on TRUTH," Trump told Fox News. "I hope Elon buys Twitter because he’ll make improvements to it and he is a good man, but I am going to be staying on TRUTH."

Not that I trust him to keep his word but this will hopefully make Twitter users breathe a little easier, at least for now.

[Username taken]

I think a lot of people are worried Musk will allow ANYTHING to happen and let lies , conspiracies etc to thrive on there. I'm glad I don't have Twitter for whats ahead as Musk sells how he's about freedom etc.

Twitter have operated a model that's been successful for them. It's not been massively successful but it's successful (contrast this with facebook that's pretty much a cesspool now).

If Musk wants to turn Twitter into another 4chan, then the consequences will be very simple and very severe. A lot of people will simply abandon Twitter and it will simply die a natural death. There aren't that many people that can actually withstand the nonsense on "Gab" or "4chan" around the world.

I really don't care either way because from politics to social psychology I think social media's influence on society has moved from mildly positive to intensely negative.

[Tami]

Looks like Twitter will accept Musk's offer today. Wondering why? Well, the consensus is that they'd get their asses sued off if they didn't, and they'd likely lose. DeSantis already threatened a lawsuit, (Florida is a large institutional investor, and thus qualfies), and many others would likely follow. Musk's price would be a premium, and is evidently the only offer for Twitter. So it's probably a done deal.

I'm worried. And unhappy.

[Mister Mets]

Those with sickle cell anemia aren't in the process of having their right to marry taken away if many conservatives had their wish, so getting children comfortable with LGBT helps prevent prejudice and death unlike discussing diseases which being LGBT is not.

There are other potential metaphors than disease that could be used. How old should children be when they learn about abortion? Should children in Louisiana be informed that one reason they have a Democratic Governor is that the 2015 Republican nominee had a diaper fetish and sought out prostitutes?

The idea that we need to get children comfortable with LGBT is also a tough one to explain to voters.

Some voters would prefer to do it at their own pace, rather than have someone else do it during Kindergarten.

If one refuses to hold many to account for it, they shouldn't act as if one person is crossing a line and curious as to why it's not belittled. I think that it's punishable to lie if you take 1 dollar of public money, and I've made that stance clear for years. I've been told how difficult to prove it might be and how one person's lie is another's misunderstanding and I think those are excuses which allow the lies and misinformation to continue. That applies to everyone from the president to someone at the DMV, and it would damn Pelosi in this case if she's lying as well. However the reality is that when so many are doing it, calling out just 1 person you disagree with politically when giving many a pass is gross hypocrisy and I've mentioned how that is something I despise.

Personally I have held Republicans to account by voting against them when they cross the line, and advocating against particular Republicans in other situations.

It is a problem to look at the person, and not the comment, but that's a different argument.

As for Pelosi, it is certainly possible for someone to make a mistake, although there has been plenty of time for people with relevant information to correct her. She has plenty of time to issue an apology, but she recognizes a lack of consequences.

This isn't just about a politician lying, but about her lying about people who are doing the right thing. I'll call out anyone who does something similar.

Would you please provide that study of American children to confirm all of this before we continue this debate? I've mentioned before how important it is that we get our facts straight as so far you keep saying there is ample evidence for things you haven't provided.

I have twice provided links that there is a significant increase in females identifying as trans.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...e_UK_2009-2016

The Week, a respected periodical, summarized a survey by the American College Health Association in a general overview.

https://theweek.com/life/1006253/the...er-trans-teens

The survey was easy to find online.

https://www.acha.org/documents/ncha/...ATA_REPORT.pdf

There's some more info on this. Another study of individuals receiving hormonal therapy in the transgender clinic at Albany Medical Center in upstate New York also notes an increase in percentages of trans men seeking help.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33644314/

From the abstract...

Introduction: The number of individuals seeking sex hormone therapy for gender dysphoria has been increasing. The prevalence gender dysphoria has recently been estimated as high as 390 to 460 per 100,000 with a consistently greater prevalence of trans women (MTF) than trans men (FTM). We report here the changing demographics encountered in our experience over the past 2 decades.
Methods: We collected data on individuals receiving hormonal therapy in the transgender clinic at Albany Medical Center in upstate New York from 1990 to 2017. We analyzed temporal changes in the number, age, and gender identity of transgender individuals.
Results: Through June 2017, a total of 421 transgender individuals were seen who initiated hormonal therapy after 1990. Over the past 25 years, there has been a significant increase in the number of individuals seen. The mean age at initiation has remained higher in MTF than in FTM but has decreased steadily in both groups with the overall average dropping <30 years since 2015 (27.5±10.6). Since 1990, there has been a steady increase in the percentage of FTM such that it is now equivalent to MTF.
Conclusion: Consistent with many reports, we are seeing an increasing number of gender dysphoric individuals seeking hormonal therapy. The age at initiation has been dropping over the past 25 years, and we have seen a steady increase in the number of FTM such that the incidence now equals that of MTF. Possible reasons for these changes are discussed.

If you're going with a specific metric I never promised, that's a different question.

And as the people who are making policy aren't clarifying it as you do, they are using it as a boogeyman to attack much more in schools than the CRT that isn't there, on top of Don't Say Gay laws. This started because you claimed that conservatives just wanted schools to teach reading writing and arithmetic and ignored these very big and in-the-news issues that are impacting Math textbooks and more.

I think you may responding to a point I haven't specifically made.

I'm pretty open about conservatives holding a variety of views on this matter.

Since I agreed with you that it should prevent graduation, I have no idea why you are going on like I disagreed. I mentioned how vehement disbelief in Evolution is a sign they would be a poor representative of people who do not agree with them given the freedom to believe or not as one chooses. Nor does it address the point that many legislators in the GoP are trying to advocate for it to be watered down if not removed from teaching outright.

It's simple to adjudicate though: If someone has beliefs which aren't shared by all their constituents to the point where they argue against facts, science, and common sense to stubbornly hold on to them, they won't be good at governing others. Many christian lawmakers don't seem to have those problems with LGBT and Evolution, and those I have no issue with governing based on how they don't force their beliefs on others - something the first amendment should prohibit.

I was pretty clear multiple times that in most cases this should not prevent graduation. As I wrote in the post to which you're replying to, "In general, I don't think we should have the power to say that someone's incorrect beliefs mean they can't graduate from a standard education program." I had earlier written "my impression is that most Democrats agree that in most cases, it shouldn't affect someone's degree. They would believe that someone should still be able to get a high school diploma even if they think God created literally created the world in six days." There are some potential edge cases (antivaxxers becoming pharmacists, someone joining a prestigious science program in order to get better credentials to argue for creationism) although these are rare.

So we do seem to disagree.

This is also going to be tough to adjudicate. Who should declare that because someone's beliefs aren't shared by most of the people in their legislative district, this means they're obviously incorrect and not worthy of a high school degree? A Republican bureaucrat would very happily work to find examples of progressive students who "argue against facts, science, and common sense to stubbornly hold on to them."

[achilles]

In the important news, (), Johnny Depp is blaming his "burn Amber or drown her" texts with The Vision on....Monty Python! The bit in question was from Holy Grail of course, but blaming his own comments on a movie decades earlier, when his was about a specific, real, or rather fairly realish person like Mera, not a comedy bit. Wonder BTW if that's why Bettany is busy not being Vision any more? They sure could have written him around again really, in either of his MCU roles if they wanted to. But Disney did fire Depp when that editorial came out from Heard.

Never mind Ukraine, Twitter, the economy, crime....no, it's the Depp/Heard case that's the really important thing.

[skyvolt2000]

I think we've got a lot of people arguing past one another on CRT, which hinders communication.

The issue is the party making these stupid laws have not been clear on what is actually banned.

I met the goalpost in that given the sheer amount of professional training and material, pretty much every teacher receives some material at some point influenced by CRT, so most teachers are influenced by CRT. There are separate questions about the degree to which it occurs, or whether it's a bad thing.

And no not every teacher receives material influence by CRT. Please stop spreading false information.

Explain how a Driver Education teacher is influenced by CRT?
A Special Education teacher?
A Physical Education teacher?
A Home Economic teacher?
A Ceramics teacher?
An Auto Shop teacher?
A foreign language teacher?
A Dance teacher?
A Theater teacher?

I can keep naming teachers.

If a dance teacher brings up Josephine Baker and talks about her and a kid asks why didn't she perform more in the USA-the teacher pointing out Jim Crow Law is NOT CRT.

If a music teacher is talking about the origins of Rock and Roll and Chick Webb or Sister Rosetta Tharpe (black folks) get mentioned. Will the teacher be fired under the guise of CRT?

Yet because of Republicans that CRT ban is so vague a Karen can get that teacher FIRED over those conversations.

[worstblogever]

CNN, of course, got their hands on 2,300 texts from Mark Meadows around Jan. 6th.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/polit...319/index.html
Yes, members of Congress knew the Big Lie was exactly that, and were still helping the Trump White House plot his supporters marching on the Capitol. The whole coup was planned, and there are multiple members of the House, like Gosar, Biggs, Jordan, Gaetz, Gohmert, and more involved.

And, not for nothing, but the texts also reveal Fox News' Sean Hannity was far from a neutral observer, either, both advising the White House on public strategy, and taking orders from White House staff on what to say on TV.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

CNN, of course, got their hands on 2,300 texts from Mark Meadows around Jan. 6th.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/25/polit...319/index.html
Yes, members of Congress knew the Big Lie was exactly that, and were still helping the Trump White House plot his supporters marching on the Capitol. The whole coup was planned, and there are multiple members of the House, like Gosar, Biggs, Jordan, Gaetz, Gohmert, and more involved.

And, not for nothing, but the texts also reveal Fox News' Sean Hannity was far from a neutral observer, either, both advising the White House on public strategy, and taking orders from White House staff on what to say on TV.

Boy, I can’t wait for the GQP spin on that puppy. We all know there’s going to be one, it’s just a matter of what sort of alternative facts they cook up.

[Dalak]

There are other potential metaphors than disease that could be used. How old should children be when they learn about abortion? Should children in Louisiana be informed that one reason they have a Democratic Governor is that the 2015 Republican nominee had a diaper fetish and sought out prostitutes?

The idea that we need to get children comfortable with LGBT is also a tough one to explain to voters.

Some voters would prefer to do it at their own pace, rather than have someone else do it during Kindergarten.

I will note that when it comes to educating kids so they won't be bigoted to LGBT your go to comparisons are Disease, Abortion, and Sexual Deviance. Some voters would like to get them to hate [SLURS] instead of letting schools teach them not to hate people who are different. I don't think that should be encouraged by making the subject forbidden so that continued prejudice can be formed. Do you think the parents who scream Groomer aren't going to try and teach their kids who and what to avoid using specific descriptions? Can you remember how short a time ago saying "That's Gay" was the accepted slang term for "This is bad and should be mocked"?

Do you think with how things are going RIGHT NOW that we're not coming back to this?

Personally I have held Republicans to account by voting against them when they cross the line, and advocating against particular Republicans in other situations.

It is a problem to look at the person, and not the comment, but that's a different argument.

I asked you to provide some republicans you had voted for because of just this argument you've made, and you only provided a democrat. I just wanted to see if the kind of republican you support is the kind you are: Anti-Trump, Pro-Civility, and Pro-Education.

As for Pelosi, it is certainly possible for someone to make a mistake, although there has been plenty of time for people with relevant information to correct her. She has plenty of time to issue an apology, but she recognizes a lack of consequences.

This isn't just about a politician lying, but about her lying about people who are doing the right thing. I'll call out anyone who does something similar.

Lying = Lying = Lying IMO. And I look forward to seeing your posts, whether you bring the individuals up or not.

I have twice provided links that there is a significant increase in females identifying as trans.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...e_UK_2009-2016

The Week, a respected periodical, summarized a survey by the American College Health Association in a general overview.

https://theweek.com/life/1006253/the...er-trans-teens

The survey was easy to find online.

https://www.acha.org/documents/ncha/...ATA_REPORT.pdf

There's some more info on this. Another study of individuals receiving hormonal therapy in the transgender clinic at Albany Medical Center in upstate New York also notes an increase in percentages of trans men seeking help.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33644314/

You provided a biased story as I pointed out, and when I asked about the ACHA study that I couldn't find you posted one (Reposted above) about the UK when we were discussing US kids, schools, and policies (As I pointed out when you posted it). I genuinely thank you for providing the ACHA study! However I can't devote as much time to this right now so I'll be looking at it later tonight/tomorrow.

I think you may responding to a point I haven't specifically made.

I'm pretty open about conservatives holding a variety of views on this matter.

And you are still advocating their view, which they don't clarify like you do. When enough people do that they think people are agreeing with them, whether they actually do or not. This has been pointed out before.

So we do seem to disagree.

This is also going to be tough to adjudicate. Who should declare that because someone's beliefs aren't shared by most of the people in their legislative district, this means they're obviously incorrect and not worthy of a high school degree? A Republican bureaucrat would very happily work to find examples of progressive students who "argue against facts, science, and common sense to stubbornly hold on to them."

I got autocorrected I guess, as this is from the post you were replying to which I was trying to correct you on:

While I may agree that not believing in evolution shouldn't prevent one from graduating,

So, no disagreement on graduating, just on governing. It's the legislators that need to be able to represent everyone in their constituency, and thus not force their beliefs on others.

[Mister Mets]

The issue is the party making these stupid laws have not been clear on what is actually banned.



And no not every teacher receives material influence by CRT. Please stop spreading false information.

Explain how a Driver Education teacher is influenced by CRT?
A Special Education teacher?
A Physical Education teacher?
A Home Economic teacher?
A Ceramics teacher?
An Auto Shop teacher?
A foreign language teacher?
A Dance teacher?
A Theater teacher?

I can keep naming teachers.

If a dance teacher brings up Josephine Baker and talks about her and a kid asks why didn't she perform more in the USA-the teacher pointing out Jim Crow Law is NOT CRT.

If a music teacher is talking about the origins of Rock and Roll and Chick Webb or Sister Rosetta Tharpe (black folks) get mentioned. Will the teacher be fired under the guise of CRT?

Yet because of Republicans that CRT ban is so vague a Karen can get that teacher FIRED over those conversations.

The specific bar on CRT is a low one, met as pretty much every teacher receives some material at some point influenced by CRT.

Teachers are often sent to the same professional development events, so I would figure that most Physical Education or foreign language teachers have been sent to the generic professional development others go to, and get some exposure to stuff that has been influenced by CRT. As I said, how often this occurs or whether it's a bad thing are different questions.

One wrinkle may be what we mean by something to be influenced by CRT. Critical Race Theory was an academic concept that had been around for decades, an offshoot of the Critical Legal Studies movement, about how racism is embedded in legal systems and policies that must be reversed. It has influenced activists in education, some of whom are to the left of the median voter in any swing state. That's my frame of reference here.

[Tendrin]

You provided a biased story as I pointed out, and when I asked about the ACHA study that I couldn't find you posted one (Reposted above) about the UK when we were discussing US kids, schools, and policies (As I pointed out when you posted it). I genuinely thank you for providing the ACHA study! However I can't devote as much time to this right now so I'll be looking at it later tonight/tomorrow.

The only study I can find that uses the '1 in 20' number is this one:

Around one in 20 American teenagers now identify as transgender, a groundbreaking new study has found.

The poll of 81,000 students in the ninth and 11th grades found three per cent said they were transgender or gender non-conforming, meaning they don’t identify with the sex they were given at birth.

That's 3% for *all* manner of trans and gender non-conforming. Once you break down that supposedly 'alarming' statistic, it comes down to the usual set of numbers. As has been pointed out to Mets *many* times now, there is *no* scientifically proven 'spike' in trans masc children.

https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/05/one-2...ender-7289302/