All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Mister Mets]

Maria Alyokhina, a member of Pussy Riot who remained under house arrest after her time in jail, managed to flee Russia yesterday. She and her girlfriend disguised as food delivery messengers to trick the police observers.

That's excellent.

DeSantis mandates lessons on communism for high school students

Honestly, this is a good idea.

[Gray Lensman]

That's excellent.

Honestly, this is a good idea.

The history of red baiting in the US makes me think it's a very bad idea.

[Tami]

That's excellent.

Honestly, this is a good idea.

You do understand that DeSantis and other Republicans like him equate Democracy, like we have here in the US, with Communism, right? That this is the first step to setting up a school curriculum designed to teach children that being a Democrat is the same as being a Communist and that it is 'Evil'.

If not, then you really are not seeing the depths of their antagonism against the country they are supposed to be loyal to.


These are the people, like Rick Scott, who are salivating at the thought of destroying Social Security, Medicare, and every other program designed to help all Americans, especially those most in need. And the justification for doing this is that these programs are "Communist".

[Username taken]

You do understand that DeSantis and other Republicans like him equate Democracy, like we have here in the US, with Communism, right? That this is the first step to setting up a school curriculum designed to teach children that being a Democrat is the same as being a Communist and that it is 'Evil'.

If not, then you really are not seeing the depths of their antagonism against the country they are supposed to be loyal to.


These are the people, like Rick Scott, who are salivating at the thought of destroying Social Security, Medicare, and every other program designed to help all Americans, especially those most in need. And the justification for doing this is that these programs are "Communist".

Exactly.

In addition, Florida should concentrate on teaching kids about the victims of systemic abuse in the US.

Like Native Americans that have lost lands, minorities wrongly jailed for their race/ethnicity, judges disproportionately handing out punishing sentences to minorities e.t.c.

[Tami]

Exactly.

In addition, Florida should concentrate on teaching kids about the victims of systemic abuse in the US.

Like Native Americans that have lost lands, minorities wrongly jailed for their race/ethnicity, judges disproportionately handing out punishing sentences to minorities e.t.c.

That pretty much goes against the whole right-wing philosophy of 'White Victim-hood'. As in, only White people are entitled to be 'Victims', and not just all Whites either. Only Straight White Males who are Conservative enough to follow in the footsteps of 'Dear Leader', whomever that "dear Leader' turns out to be post-2024.

[Username taken]

That pretty much goes against the whole right-wing philosophy of 'White Victim-hood'. As in, only White people are entitled to be 'Victims', and not just all Whites either. Only Straight White Males who are Conservative enough to follow in the footsteps of 'Dear Leader', whomever that "dear Leader' turns out to be post-2024.

Quoted for truth.

[Tami]

The surprisingly depressing takeaway from Trump's West Virginia win

Former President Donald Trump scored another victory as a Republican kingmaker on Tuesday, after his pick in West Virginia’s GOP primary, Rep. Alex Mooney, beat Rep. David McKinley in the race for the state’s 2nd Congressional District seat. As always, the display of Trump’s continued grip on the party is concerning. But there’s a specific detail about the race that’s particularly grim: McKinley was punished for the sin of indulging in an anodyne act of bipartisanship.

According to Roll Call, McKinley’s support for last year's bipartisan infrastructure law — you know, the law that received support from both parties in Congress and is funding badly needed roads, bridges and broadband infrastructure — was a “focal point in the race.” And McKinley’s vote for it is what inspired Trump to lash out against him. “Even though representatives for Trump told him a vote for the bill would result in Trump endorsing his opponent, McKinley said he couldn’t pass up an opportunity to vote for it because it ‘is good for West Virginia,’” Roll Call reports. When President Joe Biden signed his infrastructure package, Trump endorsed Mooney that same day.

[Tami]

Bill to Guarantee Abortion Rights Fails in Senate

WASHINGTON — Democrats tried and failed on Wednesday to push forward legislation to guarantee abortion rights nationwide, as Republicans and one Democrat in the Senate blocked an effort to enshrine the landmark Roe v. Wade precedent in federal law.

With 51 senators opposed and 49 in support, Democrats fell short of the 60 votes they would have needed to take up sweeping legislation to ensure abortion access and explicitly bar a wide array of restrictions.

Republicans, who unanimously opposed the measure, were joined by one Democrat, Senator Joe Manchin III of West Virginia. Mr. Manchin, who opposes abortion rights, said the legislation was overly broad, noting that it would go substantially further than simply codifying Roe and warning that it would “expand abortion.”

The resulting vote showed that a majority does not now exist in the Senate to support maintaining legal abortion nationwide. Democrats who supported the bill framed it as a call to action, ahead of midterm elections, for voters who support abortion rights to elect likeminded candidates who will preserve them.

“This vote clearly suggests that the Senate is not where the majority of Americans are on this issue,” said Vice President Kamala Harris, who appeared on the Senate dais to open the vote in a symbolic show of support by the White House. “A priority for all that care about this issue — the priority — should be to elect pro-choice leaders.”

[WestPhillyPunisher]

The surprisingly depressing takeaway from Trump's West Virginia win

Republican voters: “I voted for Alex Mooney because I want fucked up roads with potholes the sizes of craters, internet with 1980’s era dial-up speeds and failing bridges that might collapse and send me to my death when I drive over them! Yeah, baby! YEAH!”

[Mister Mets]

Yeltsin made the job easy for him, banning the CPSU from the beginning. And even against its offspring, they both had to rig the elections for a whole decade. All this with the acquiescence of the west. By the time the US and its allies started wondering if they wanted Putin at the helm of Russia, there was no one left to oppose him. So yes, nowadays Russians can vote whatever they want, just as Americans can vote whatever they want, with a slight difference; the facade of democracy can be maintained on the US, because there are two "options", while in Russian you only have one. Now, if Medvedev had a fake kerfuffle with Putin, and founded "another" party promising completely different policies, but that would end doing the same... then the charade would be good.

There are major differences between Democrats and Republicans.

I thought that chicken eggs we buy from the market are unfertilized?

Fair point on a flaw of that metaphor.

You can disagree all you want, but when you defend trans bigotry so often it brings up the question Why.

When the Survey says that only 4.2% identified as Trans/Nonbinary/More including those amab and the Reporter rounds up the number and says it's all afab, I trust the Survey. You have devolved to the point of denying that they could be lying because what they said defies the facts so we must accept the Reporter and not the facts as shown in the survey quoted.

Just stop pretending Mets.

If you say things that are untrue and go on to insult me, I will point out when you are mistaken.

The view that the facts don't matter but that what matters is being on the right side is a toxic one, embraced by people you disagree with, so it's a worrisome perspective.

You are changing the goalpost here by pretending that your argument is that a reporter could have lied. You were rather explicit that it is so obvious that the reporter lied that this makes it okay for you to insult me for suggesting the reporter might be correct. Changing your story several times is rather hypocritical when accusing anyone of gaslighting.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/senate-passes-bill-boost-security-supreme-court-84604795


Well I guess we don't have to worry about any more peaceful protesting then.

This basically means they're entitled to the same protections as members of the legislative and executive branch. So they can be protested the same way Senators can be protested. It still makes more sense to protest Senators because they're writing the laws. Judges are supposed to interpret laws, so they shouldn't be swayed by anything else.

How are they?

If some pro-life Republicans are hypocrites for making arguments about bodily autonomy when it comes to masks, some pro-choice Democrats are hypocrites for ignoring bodily autonomy on that question.

This is a response to a simplistic argument rather than a claim that people can't believe in the wisdom of two policies under different circumstances (IE- supporting mask mandates and abortion rights.)

You either didn't read what I posted or you didn't grasp it. But since you ask for no clarification, it becomes increasingly clear you have no interest in information which doesn't conform to your narrative.

Neither is anyone else, but all of them take their crack at it when assessing, and accepting, one handed down to them. BTW, the "knowledge or expertise of the professionals" is highly overrated, and I talk from experience.

I didn't think any clarification was needed.

Zelensky did not invade Russia, so his actions don't contradict a desire for peace.

You also did clearly say that you create your own narrative, writing "I tend to fill in the blanks between the facts, creating another narrative." I do not believe I have taken you out of context. This view has some implications as the narrative will be shaped by some of your blind spots and misunderstandings, just as it would for anyone.

[Mister Mets]

Bill to Guarantee Abortion Rights Fails in Senate

This was obviously a messaging bill.

If they wanted this to be taken seriously, it would have offered the same access and restrictions as can be found in France.

Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski suggested that bill, but Schumer doesn't care.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2072209.html

You do understand that DeSantis and other Republicans like him equate Democracy, like we have here in the US, with Communism, right? That this is the first step to setting up a school curriculum designed to teach children that being a Democrat is the same as being a Communist and that it is 'Evil'.

If not, then you really are not seeing the depths of their antagonism against the country they are supposed to be loyal to.


These are the people, like Rick Scott, who are salivating at the thought of destroying Social Security, Medicare, and every other program designed to help all Americans, especially those most in need. And the justification for doing this is that these programs are "Communist".

Should the United States stop teaching about the Holocaust because Putin claimed that his enemies are Nazis?

If Florida tries to pass a law that mandates teaching children that Democrats in the US are the same as the evil Communists, I would be opposed to that. That is not the law that is being suggested.

There have been really bad things in communist regimes, and this has had some implications in American history, including the reason many people immigrated here (including my father's parents) as well as the history of the cold war.

What do you think we are dealing with? Twitter, Facebook, All of them just like this forum are owned by private companies not the government or any thing. They are a luxury not a basic human right. No one is born with a right to Twitter, no one is promised the right to come on here and post. The people who own and run these places have every right as two who and what gets posted.

And it does have a bearing. As someone who has been falling all over them selves to talk about how Putin and his war are Okay because Ukraine is bad you are clearly a Putin fan. So I find it funny you ignore him violating peoples basic right to free speech with mass arrests during the protests and passing laws where speaking out against the war is a crime while being upset at people being banned from private own websites. Then going not my country so it doesnt matter to me. Yet you spend all of your time here spreading the lies of not your country and leader.

There are some interesting legal and moral questions.

What they can legally do is different from what they should do (and some Republicans do want to change the laws, so that also complicates the discussion.)

I remember a podcast interview where a futurist suggested his opposition to viewpoint censorship, but was in favor of decorum censorship or content censorship. On a sidenote I liked a point made in a John McWhorter podcast "Censorship is when the right does it, cancel culture is when the left does it."

A company that pretends to be viewpoint neutral may be held to a different standard than one that has a clearly defined bias. A forum for Vegan cooking strategies is not going to favor meat propaganda. The comments section of a mommy blogger is not going to be a friendly place for antinatalists.

Companies like Twitter and Facebook don't make these admissions.

The best solution is more transparency on moderator decisions, so that we know what the rationale for a decision is, and that rumors have less of a chance to spread.

Well I agree that liars and people who spread misinformation should face consequences. But why can't proven liars be preemptively sanctioned ?
How many lies has Donald Trump told since 2015 ? , what have been the consequences ? None ! He's a pathological liar �� why would you give him a chance back on Twitter ? Unless you actually support him ? Well you have a right to support him if you want . I personally do not !!!

One argument is that it's much better for Democrats to have Trump on Twitter. It exposes his shortcomings.

A company can have whatever policy it wants, although there will be calls for consistency, with demands that liars who hold different political views be kicked out as well.

There is also an issue for punishing someone for violating a rule that didn't exist when they did it.

[Tami]

Should the United States stop teaching about the Holocaust because Putin claimed that his enemies are Nazis?

If Florida tries to pass a law that mandates teaching children that Democrats in the US are the same as the evil Communists, I would be opposed to that. That is not the law that is being suggested.

There have been really bad things in communist regimes, and this has had some implications in American history, including the reason many people immigrated here (including my father's parents) as well as the history of the cold war.

Let's consider this carefully. Most history classes in High School already have lessons in international history as well as US History. And throughout history, there have been many countries that engaged in really bad things, and not all of them were Communist. Though typically the worst of them were Authoritarian, which comes in many forms.

So why not just have lessons about all countries that have done evil things? Why specifically limit it just to Communist countries?

Your analogy about Putin and the Holocaust makes little sense. You should be asking, why is Florida NOT teaching about Putin's Russia along with the Holocaust? Assuming that DeSantis still allows teachers in Florida to teach about the Holocaust. Is Putin's Russia Communist? Technically no. Was Nazi Germany Communist? No. So why would they be left out?

Why focus solely on China and Cuba, and not also focus on Nazi Germany and Current day Russia?

I gave a reason, and I can provide evidence of it if needed.

[Mister Mets]

Let's consider this carefully. Most history classes in High School already have lessons in international history as well as US History. And throughout history, there have been many countries that engaged in really bad things, and not all of them were Communist. Though typically the worst of them were Authoritarian, which comes in many forms.

So why not just have lessons about all countries that have done evil things? Why specifically limit it just to Communist countries?

Your analogy about Putin and the Holocaust makes little sense. You should be asking, why is Florida NOT teaching about Putin's Russia along with the Holocaust? Assuming that DeSantis still allows teachers in Florida to teach about the Holocaust. Is Putin's Russia Communist? Technically no. Was Nazi Germany Communist? No. So why would they be left out?

Why focus solely on China and Cuba, and not also focus on Nazi Germany and Current day Russia?

I gave a reason, and I can provide evidence of it if needed.

An earlier law covered the Holocaust. It's not left out.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...s/1003.42.html

(g)1. The history of the Holocaust (1933-1945), the systematic, planned annihilation of European Jews and other groups by Nazi Germany, a watershed event in the history of humanity, to be taught in a manner that leads to an investigation of human behavior, an understanding of the ramifications of prejudice, racism, and stereotyping, and an examination of what it means to be a responsible and respectful person, for the purposes of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society and for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions, including the policy, definition, and historical and current examples of anti-Semitism, as described in s. 1000.05(7), and the prevention of anti-Semitism. Each school district must annually certify and provide evidence to the department, in a manner prescribed by the department, that the requirements of this paragraph are met. The department shall prepare and offer standards and curriculum for the instruction required by this paragraph and may seek input from the Commissioner of Education’s Task Force on Holocaust Education or from any state or nationally recognized Holocaust educational organizations. The department may contract with any state or nationally recognized Holocaust educational organizations to develop training for instructional personnel and grade-appropriate classroom resources to support the developed curriculum.
2. The second week in November shall be designated as “Holocaust Education Week” in this state in recognition that November is the anniversary of Kristallnacht, widely recognized as a precipitating event that led to the Holocaust.

[Tendrin]

Limiting to communism, of course, is about being able to tar democrats as 'commie socialists' and paint them with the brush of Stalin's dead. That's all it's ever been.

[Tami]

An earlier law covered the Holocaust. It's not left out.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...s/1003.42.html

Good to know. Now, I wonder how long it will be before DeSantis and the Florida Republican legislature decide that this is something that shouldn't be taught? Tell you what, we can revisit this if and when the Florida Legislature decides to undo the law you cited and force schools not to teach about the Holocaust.