All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[SquirrelMan]

The MSM (and I'm not just talking about FOX News here) has done a pretty good job, ever since Watergate, of telling us that we should take anything coming out of a politician's mouth, regardless of party affiliation, with a grain of salt. And for some people, if we shouldn't believe what the government tells us about A,B and C, then we CAN believe what QAnon tells us about D,E and F. That applies even when there's no proof, as long as it sounds plausible. Like I always say, conspiracy theories tend to be long on motive, but short on evidence.

What about Qanon sounds plausible? The JFK jr stuff or the celebrity vampire cabal stuff?

[Malvolio]

Can we agree that this type of stuff is embarrassing?



And from the left...



This makes it hard to take politicians seriously.

I wish the politicians would at least tell us where the money goes. I donate regularly to the ASPCA and they regularly send me e-mails telling me that $50 will pay for spay/neutering or that $25 will pay for a few bags of cat food or that $40 will pay for shots. But sometimes it seems that the only thing politicians spend our donations on is sending out more e-mails.

[Mister Mets]

The main issue is where the story came from to start with...

It's someone who is know to bend the truth, if not lie outright.

Once you have internalized that reality?

It is not that hard to come up with a completely plausible scenario where the guy was telling a lie to someone else inside of the administration that made Trump look like he didn't just get treated like a little kid when they took him back to the White House. That he was a "Tough..." guy when they tried to pull that garbage on him, and he wanted to be there at the capital.

That is easily a lie that I could see the guy in question cooking up. Add that to the fact that the guy has been known to lie, and it is kind of tough to accept said "Second Hand..." story like it is the Ten Commandments.

The idea that Trump put his hands on a secret service agent has been circulating in Washington. At the very least, this is not something that Cassidy Hutchinson made up, even if some people may be exaggerating its significance.

Whether it's interpretation or implementation the decision comes with serious consequences. Meanwhile, you're over here quibbling over this, trying to make your pedantic nuance here into something bigger than it is.



Once again, did they not just make decisions to bring the preferred legislative outcomes of the religious right to fruition by striking down Roe v. Wade? They did.

I can't tell if you're insincerely here to just increase the blood pressure of folks or if you're legitimately trying to make sense here. In a way, I kind of hope it's neither.

This isn't quibbling, or pedantic nuance. It's how judges are supposed to be assessed. Their decision is supposed to be about the legal rationale, rather than whether this is something that they would vote for if they were legislators.

There's a major issue with political discussions where people complain about judges, but aren't able to articulate what the judge did wrong, which suggests a misunderstanding of the role of the courts.

This isn't universal. There are some people here who don't like what the Supreme Court did, and can articulate their objections.

But a bad decision by the courts is much less important than otherwise informed people thinking the role of the courts is to make the law.

On a Convention, it's true we don't know the outcome. But we can use logic and observe politics in the recent past to say that left-wing activists would be fighting an uphill battle against the right and the center and would likely not have much input. And I'd argue that those pushing for this are on the right, and not your MAGA hothead types but the long-game player Heritage Foundation types who are going to have their ducks in a row and are the reason we have a 6-3 Court.

I'd bet heavily on the outcome favoring the same white/christian/hetero/wealthy folk who have too much say in government already. Again, hope I'm wrong and that it never happens. But 10 years ago I'd have said Roe is here to stay, and 20 years ago that there was no chance a fascist/theocratic movement would gain traction in this country beyond the old GOP establishment placating Evangelicals to get votes for tax cuts. I was wrong, and I'm going to be on the lookout for what's coming next.

On whether Left Judges should fight for Left causes like Civil Rights, protecting citizens from the influence of large interests like corporations, and so on or instead trying to do their best to stay impartial while 6 Justices are working on turning the US into Gilead I say to hell with that.

I honestly believe Heritage Foundation types pushing for a second constitutional convention overestimate their ability to control it (or they're using something that hasn't happened in 200+ years as an excuse for why they haven't got stuff done.)

So, is your view that the right uses whatever pretext it can to get its preferred policy outcomes, and that the left should do the exact same thing (with some possible reforms after some sweeping changes)?

What about Qanon sounds plausible? The JFK jr stuff or the celebrity vampire cabal stuff?

Epstein's mysterious money.

Note- QAnon is BS. But we have a wealthy and politically connected child trafficker who should not be as rich as he was given the services he provided, and the number of clients he had.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019...s-fortune.html

[Malvolio]

What about Qanon sounds plausible? The JFK jr stuff or the celebrity vampire cabal stuff?

They didn't start there. The pizza parlor pedophile ring sounded like something that COULD happen. I mean, if we heard that, say Matt Gaetz, had a secret pedophile ring in his basement, we would all ant to believe it, whether there was any evidence or not. And once you believe a few things like that, you kind of want to believe anything else that person tells you because you've become a fan.

[The Cool Thatguy]

They didn't start there. The pizza parlor pedophile ring sounded like something that COULD happen. I mean, if we heard that, say Matt Gaetz, had a secret pedophile ring in his basement, we would all ant to believe it, whether there was any evidence or not. And once you believe a few things like that, you kind of want to believe anything else that person tells you because you've become a fan.

With Matt Gaetz, he has a history of being a perv.

Believing a perv is a perv isn't that great a stretch.

That Democrats are blood drinking, baby eating Satanists?

There's a vast difference there.

And to be frank here, if drinking blood actually making you younger, humanity would have been doing it from the freakin' start.

[CaptainEurope]

With Matt Gaetz, he has a history of being a perv.

Believing a perv is a perv isn't that great a stretch.

That Democrats are blood drinking, baby eating Satanists?

There's a vast difference there.

And to be frank here, if drinking blood actually making you younger, humanity would have been doing it from the freakin' start.

And a reminder, Pizzagate was not just "there is a child trafficking operation in the basement of a pizza parlor."
It was: All of Hillary's inner circle is involved in the child trafficking, and they communicate about it via email that looks like harmless pizza orders.

[kidfresh512]

Leon County School Board approves LGBTQ guide after fierce debate

After three hours of fiery public debate, the Leon County School Board unanimously approved its "LGBTQ Inclusive School Guide" Tuesday night.

The policy, which the board is calling a “guide” and a "living document" that can be quickly updated, comes after weeks of deliberation from the district’s LGBTQ+ Advisory Committee.

The document is intended to create guidelines for teachers and administrators to help students who need it and to outline state laws for employees, Assistant Superintendent Alan Cox told the Tallahassee Democrat.

What drew the most debate was a provision that a school will notify parents — by form — if a student who is "open about their gender identity" is in a physical education class or on an overnight trip.

Some teachers and students during the Tuesday night meeting said the policy will “out” LGBTQ+ students — revealing their sexual orientation or gender identity without their permission.

How are they not slapping a target on a kids back who already starts off life marginalized and in survival mode sometimes against their own families and community just for existing?

Then on top of that you have state sanctioned hate and targeting of them. You have to send a warning to other families and parents if a kid just goes on a trip? Or just having "a gay" in your PE class needs parental notice? Like they are some kind of unsafe freak? I mean its just evil and anyone supporting that isn't some better person, or righteous. They are petty trifling and cold hearted. They don't care about kids. They care about exacting vengeance on people they deem less than them.

Then people whine about Pride month or Pride celebrations. Why do they have to celebrate? Look at the shit we are given just for existing. If you can make it all the way to an age where you can go to a Pride event and just be yourself and be free you fucking earned that celebration.

[numberthirty]

The idea that Trump put his hands on a secret service agent has been circulating in Washington. At the very least, this is not something that Cassidy Hutchinson made up, even if some people may be exaggerating its significance.

...

Which is something I never said...

What has been said is that it is a story she repeated after she heard from someone. This is the person she heard the story from...

Tony Ornato has, on multiple occasions, told others things happen, then when the media reports it, denies that it happened, even when there's evidence.



Unless he's under other, don't believe a word that f***er Ornato says, because he insists that orders weren't given to clear Lafayette Square, or that he told a National Security Advisor to remove Mike Pence from the Capitol on 1/6.

After that?

It's simple.

If she is repeating a story told by someone who I should not believe a word that he says?

Why, exactly, is this the instance that I should believe the story he told?

Heading past that...

The details in the various instances "Confirming..." her testimony have details that CNN readily admitted do not line up.

It just sounds a whole lot like a round of the "Telephone..." where everything came from the initial story told by a guy who lies, and has changed because no one actually was there for whatever did happen.

[Tami]

Which is something I never said...

What has been said is that it is a story she repeated after she heard from someone. This is the person she heard the story from...



After that?

It's simple.

If she is repeating a story told by someone who I should not believe a word that he says?

Why, exactly, is this the instance that I should believe the story he told?

Heading past that...

The details in the various instances "Confirming..." her testimony have details that CNN readily admitted do not line up.

It just sounds a whole lot like a round of the "Telephone..." where everything came from the initial story told by a guy who lies, and has changed because no one actually was there for whatever did happen.

A good prosecutor always has sufficient evidence to support what his or her witness testifies to before putting them under oath. There are a lot of cards still left to be played by the J6 Committee, so this may not be the last time we hear about it.

[numberthirty]

I did post the video earlier that showed him in the vehicle.

Actually took look at what you posted at the time.

While I make it a rule to steer clear of social media because I tend to suspect that the bulk of it is a fabrication?

I looked though the Twitter piece that went along with your article.

When I did?

There was plenty of "Hey, what an I supposed to be seeing here?..."

Even if, let's say, eighty percent of what happens on Twitter is bots/false accounts?

That would still mean some folks just looked at the video, and said "I don't know what you think I should be getting out of that..."

Again, not saying that there is no way any of this could have happened.

Just that the entire root of the thing is a story told by a guy who is known to lie that we are getting second hand from someone who was not there.

The folks who "Confirm..." her testimony?

None of them were there either, and CNN reported pretty clearly that the details in the "What They Heard..." stuff that "Confirms..." her testimony differ.

I'm just missing the smoking gun, and it's hard to ignore that the story that kicks it all of was told by a guy who has been know to lie.

[numberthirty]

A good prosecutor always has sufficient evidence to support what his or her witness testifies to before putting them under oath. There are a lot of cards still left to be played by the J6 Committee, so this may not be the last time we hear about it.

Politely?

These folks are not prosecutors, and in any normal case the accused would get the chance to cast doubt on that evidence.

Do you honestly think that part of what they are trotting out isn't being trotted out because they know good and well that no one will get the chance to cast doubt on it?

[numberthirty]

They didn't start there. The pizza parlor pedophile ring sounded like something that COULD happen. I mean, if we heard that, say Matt Gaetz, had a secret pedophile ring in his basement, we would all ant to believe it, whether there was any evidence or not. And once you believe a few things like that, you kind of want to believe anything else that person tells you because you've become a fan.

While I don't really want to get too far into this tangent...

This is America that we are talking about.

Tom DeLonge has some sort of a "Government Adjacent..." setup in regards to if aliens actually exist.

The sort of stuff that Americans will actually entertain when it comes to the whole "Conspiracy..." corner?

It tends not to surprise me even if I am on the "Two People Can Keep A Secret If One Of Them Is Dead..." side of that continuum.

[Tami]

Politely?

These folks are not prosecutors, and in any normal case the accused would get the chance to cast doubt on that evidence.

Do you honestly think that part of what they are trotting out isn't being trotted out because they know good and well that no one will get the chance to cast doubt on it?

Adam Schiff then joined the U.S. Attorney's Office in Los Angeles as a federal prosecutor

Jamie Raskin was also a professor of constitutional law at American University’s Washington College of Law for more than 25 years

Liz Cheney also practiced law at White & Case and at the International Finance Corporation.

That is at least three members with Law Degrees and at least one who worked as a Prosecutor. That's enough.

[babyblob]

Uvalde Schools Police chief resigns from City Council. Now to just get him out of law enfocment.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...uncil-00043865

[Wildling]

Adam Schiff then joined the U.S. Attorney's Office in Los Angeles as a federal prosecutor

Jamie Raskin was also a professor of constitutional law at American University’s Washington College of Law for more than 25 years

Liz Cheney also practiced law at White & Case and at the International Finance Corporation.

That is at least three members with Law Degrees and at least one who worked as a Prosecutor. That's enough.

When the other side of the aisle (stretching farther into hell with every decision) values credentials like owning the libs, kissing Trump's ass, and demonizing health officers from Fauci all the way down, signs of expertise become all the more precious.