All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Mister Mets]

It was a t-shirt, Mets. You want us to put more stock in the 'serious questions' that a t-shirt raises than the things actual members of your party say and do, something you still are apparently willing to do to this day. It's pretty typical for the GOP to take one relatively anodyne statement, however, and try to gin it up into something that raises 'serious questions' about Democrats.

Please, spare us. It was ridiculous when you tried it back then, it's even more ridiculous now.

Your post would suggest that this is something I bring up a lot, and the goalpost is whether this is something so serious as to merit that level of attention.

But that's not what's going on. I made a post about something a major Democratic official (I think we can agree a member that is a fair description of House Leadership who is also Vice Chair of the DNC) wore at a public event, and that there was no clarifying statement. You guys keep bringing it up. The goalpost is whether it is so strange that it should be brought up over and over.

Is the whole tee shirt mess that guy who wore the Open Boarders tee shirt? I remember that. The GOP went nuts about that and because oft hat one guy every Democrat wanted Open Boarders. Unless there is another Tee Shirt the GOP was up in arms about.

And yet we have the GOP elected officials posing for pictures with hate groups and their members and yet those many members do not represent GOP policy for some reason. Or the GOP Cult members on the 6th that had the words 6 Million is not enough shirts and the rebel flag shirts. yet the GOP doesnt say crap about those shirts.

It's hard to argue with straw men.

An asshat who is not an elected official, or a Republican staffer is a different category than a Congressman who was a member of House leadership, and Vice Chair of the Democratic National Committee.

https://forward.com/fast-forward/461...capitol-siege/

That's the post I linked to alright, saying that your only explanation was that it seemed off. Quoting from the story:



So as I said multiple times, there's nothing firm to deal with yet regardless of what critics say. The story doesn't go into anything like you describe, and if you are diving into the comments section I'm not going into that hellhole. Considering the many stories of crazy school board meetings, elections, and other anti-teacher campaigns that have been reported just in this thread over the last several years it is not malicious to try and make sure that Teachers don't just lose their jobs but their ability to earn a living with their lost license.

So with no evidence and their livelihoods on the line, why do you continue to insist they are complying maliciously instead of being cautious?

BTW the Tshirt is and will continue to be BS regardless of how often you defend it.



You got it in 1!

I wasn't diving into the comments section. By comment, I just meant what the people in the article were saying.

In the original article, they mentioned that the measures were outside of what the new law calls for.

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/teac...LBUVT6TVWPDGA/

Some of the measures appeared to be far outside what the law actually forbids, as it focuses primarily on mental health monitoring and classroom curriculums.

It seems to me the choices are that the teachers know what they're doing, they don't know what they're doing, or the reporter sucks.

[Mister Mets]

Such a polite way to say stop and frisk, which we know has several issues.

Stop, Question and Frisk isn't the only policy like this, but it is a prominent one.

It's really easy to say both sides when you equate what some SF school board members said (and then were recalled by the Democratic voters) and what the GOP President, Senate Leader and House Leader says.

Both sides!

A majority of elected officials on the school board of one of the most important cities in the world concluded that Abraham Lincoln is beyond the pale, and that renaming schools named after him was a top priority during Covid. I don't think it's wrong for people to be concerned about that.

Hmm we wouldnt want to censor the GOP. They never do anything to censor views they dont agree with.

I dont agree at all with censorship. But hearing a member of the Republican party saying they are against it makes me laugh.

Technically, I was trying to figure out scourge's position since he didn't quite answer the question.

I didn't give a view on censorship, although I am typically against it.

On the whole Republicans VS Democrats thing, I am willing to vote against my party, so it's not like I blindly support the party.

The whole "we wouldnt want to censor the GOP. They never do anything to censor views they dont agree with." argument doesn't quite work because presumably you're against Republican efforts at censorship. Unless the argument is that censorship is right when it's on your side.

That said, I'm still not sure Republicans censor more. There was a comment that when Republicans do it, it's censorship and when Democrats do it, it's cancel culture. Granted, you guys are more likely to agree with the left-wing arguments about this kind of stuff.

[babyblob]

Your post would suggest that this is something I bring up a lot, and the goalpost is whether this is something so serious as to merit that level of attention.

But that's not what's going on. I made a post about something a major Democratic official (I think we can agree a member that is a fair description of House Leadership who is also Vice Chair of the DNC) wore at a public event, and that there was no clarifying statement. You guys keep bringing it up. The goalpost is whether it is so strange that it should be brought up over and over.

It's hard to argue with straw men.

An asshat who is not an elected official, or a Republican staffer is a different category than a Congressman who was a member of House leadership, and Vice Chair of the Democratic National Committee.

How about the GOP elected officials that have their pictures taken with white supremist groups which dose happen? How about the leader of the party telling the Proud Boys a known hate group to stand by. Members of the GOP working with the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers? Those are not straw men. Those are members of the party. I noticed you focused on the Asshats but did nothing to answer about those elected officials?

[babyblob]

I didn't give a view on censorship, although I am typically against it.

On the whole Republicans VS Democrats thing, I am willing to vote against my party, so it's not like I blindly support the party.

The whole "we wouldnt want to censor the GOP. They never do anything to censor views they dont agree with." argument doesn't quite work because presumably you're against Republican efforts at censorship. Unless the argument is that censorship is right when it's on your side.

That said, I'm still not sure Republicans censor more. There was a comment that when Republicans do it, it's censorship and when Democrats do it, it's cancel culture. Granted, you guys are more likely to agree with the left-wing arguments about this kind of stuff.

I dont agree with Censor ship of any form unless they form of censorship blocks hate speech and calls to violence. But the GOP are the ones passing laws, and having school boards ban books. Not the Dems.

Edit - Also canceling things like Diversity Days in school as well as deciding what can be taught in schools. Despite what the parents (Who the GOP said are the ones who should decide) wanting things taught.

[hyped78]

I am not American but I identify with the values of (most of) the Democratic Party… but damn, this is one mighty incompetent current administration that is basically tearing your country apart, from rampant inflation, gas prices to a border crisis and lackluster economic growth. As a Republican, you don’t need to do much to win right now.

[Iron Maiden]

I remember discussing an article I'd read once with some co-workers which mentioned that GOP politicians get convicted of crimes more often than democrats but spend more time accusing democrats of commiting crimes.

https://rantt.com/gop-admins-had-38-...rats-1961-2016

Naturally they told me to shut up and that national statistics are always fixed. Sometimes, I hate living in Indiana.

I know what you mean. At least I live in the part of the state that still has a strong Democratic presence like Mayor McDermott of Hammond, who is running for the Senate. I don't think he will win but you never know. The current office holder Sen. Todd Young is as dumb as a box of rocks.

[Malvolio]

https://www.axios.com/2022/07/17/bet...t-of-education



It should also be noted that DeSantis has been endorsing extremists for school board in order to better enforce his fascistic discriminatory policies and to further erode education and push out anybody that actually cares about teaching these kids.

They don't want the poor or even the middle class educated. They want us just smart enough to operate the machines, but no more than that. An educated public will see them for the villains and charlatans they are and vote them out of office. They have to do everything they can to prevent that.

[Mister Mets]

I dont agree with Censor ship of any form unless they form of censorship blocks hate speech and calls to violence. But the GOP are the ones passing laws, and having school boards ban books. Not the Dems.

Edit - Also canceling things like Diversity Days in school as well as deciding what can be taught in schools. Despite what the parents (Who the GOP said are the ones who should decide) wanting things taught.

Elected officials have a say in how public schools and public libraries are run. There will also always be individuals with discretion about how finite resources are spent.

How about the GOP elected officials that have their pictures taken with white supremist groups which dose happen? How about the leader of the party telling the Proud Boys a known hate group to stand by. Members of the GOP working with the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers? Those are not straw men. Those are members of the party. I noticed you focused on the Asshats but did nothing to answer about those elected officials?

I'm not a fan of Trump, or Marjorie Taylor Greene, although I think some of the arguments against them are over the top. If you want to discuss specific situations, I'll be glad to do so.

Yeah, there's no way the GOP would ever agitate to overturn a popular precedent of which 2/3rds of Americans support.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...f2f403bef46af4

If you're trying to go for an abortion comparison, there are a few differences between it and gay marriage.

There tended to be a mismatch between how voters felt about Roe V Wade, and how they felt abortion, which suggests confusion about what the Dobbs decision did.

Polling on gay marriage is a bit different, in that public support for it has consistently increased. At this point, a majority of Republicans are in favor of it.

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/09/10046...e-sex-marriage

One complication in evaluating legal decisions is that we should be able to distinguish between what we like and what the law says. So it should be possible to believe that gay marriage is a good thing, but there's no constitutional right for it. That's probably not Cruz's argument, but he's not going to get everything he wants in life and politics.

A reversal of gay marriage also has 14th amendment implications that don't apply to Dobbs. It would be a different legal argument, before we get to its popularity. The main concern for Democrats would be if approval of gay marriage declines. That would change the political considerations.

[babyblob]

Elected officials have a say in how public schools and public libraries are run. There will also always be individuals with discretion about how finite resources are spent.

I'm not a fan of Trump, or Marjorie Taylor Greene, although I think some of the arguments against them are over the top. If you want to discuss specific situations, I'll be glad to do so.

To the first point. The GOP and their whole thing about CRT and banning teaching about race and sex is because parents should decide what is taught in schools. Not elected officials not groups with an agenda. yet in cases where parents want things like Diversity Days and they want racial history and topics about sex taught in schools it is still banned. Despite the cry that parents are the ones that should decide.

To the second. There is no over the top argument vs someone who tried to lead a coup on the government to stay in power. And I gave two instances. And they are not alone. There have been more then one GOP member to have phots taken with known White Supremists and and openly talk about their love of such groups.

So if a man wearing an open boarders shirt makes that official Dem policy because he was an elected official and high up in the party doesnt that make hate and White Power the policy of the GOP since their elected officials keep having their picture taken with them and talking about their love of those groups? How many of the GOP were in contact with those groups before the 6th? And after?

So if a tee shirts makes a policy why dont pictures and gushing love for those groups?

And the other question. Why do the other memebers of the GOP and the News channels like Fox speak out against that sort of thing?

Not one of them looked at the 6th and said "Hey those racist shirts, those racist people? They do not represent us.

They do not say, "Those members that court the support of the Oath Keepers and proud Boys, those members that speak at events featuring those members, and have photos taken with members of known hate groups are not what we want of our party.

I wonder why they never say that?

And as for a few asshats with tee shirts not representing the party because they are not elected officials? That whole group was there in their words at the invitation of the President. When you have a group of people there at the request of the President to help him keep power (Who did send them there in his speech) and that group is wearing highly racist shirts and waving their flags the members of that party damn sure speak out against it unless that party supports them and their views.

[Kirby101]

A majority of elected officials on the school board of one of the most important cities in the world concluded that Abraham Lincoln is beyond the pale, and that renaming schools named after him was a top priority during Covid. I don't think it's wrong for people to be concerned about that.

Did you miss the part where they were kicked out of office by the DEMOCRATIC voters of that city, so they obviously do not represent the Democratic Party. Meanwhile YOUR PARTY has racist, homophobic, anti-women elected officials from school board members to Congress people and Senators and they have the full support of the Republican voters an their Party. I know you will refuse to understand the difference here, but at least the rest of the locals we see it.

[Tami]

How a conservative US network undermined Indigenous energy rights in Canada

A US-based libertarian coalition has spent years pressuring the Canadian government to limit how much Indigenous communities can push back on energy development on their own land, newly reviewed strategy documents reveal.

The Atlas Network partnered with an Ottawa-based thinktank – the Macdonald-Laurier Institute (MLI) – which enlisted pro-industry Indigenous representatives in its campaign to provide “a shield against opponents”.

Atlas, which has deep ties to conservative politicians and oil and gas producers, claimed success in reports in 2018 and 2020, arguing its partner was able to discourage the Canadian government from supporting a United Nations declaration that would ensure greater involvement by Indigenous communities.

The Canadian parliament did eventually pass the legislation to begin implementing the declaration in 2021, but observers say the government has made little progress to move it forward.

[Mister Mets]

Did you miss the part where they were kicked out of office by the DEMOCRATIC voters of that city, so they obviously do not represent the Democratic Party. Meanwhile YOUR PARTY has racist, homophobic, anti-women elected officials from school board members to Congress people and Senators and they have the full support of the Republican voters an their Party. I know you will refuse to understand the difference here, but at least the rest of the locals we see it.

Some asshat Republicans will lose soon enough.

Recalls are only an option in some jurisdictions, and even in those cases, there are limits. For example, there are no recalls on federal officeholders which is probably a good thing. Imagine if there were special elections right now that could determine who controls the House or Senate in a week.

To the first point. The GOP and their whole thing about CRT and banning teaching about race and sex is because parents should decide what is taught in schools. Not elected officials not groups with an agenda. yet in cases where parents want things like Diversity Days and they want racial history and topics about sex taught in schools it is still banned. Despite the cry that parents are the ones that should decide.

To the second. There is no over the top argument vs someone who tried to lead a coup on the government to stay in power. And I gave two instances. And they are not alone. There have been more then one GOP member to have phots taken with known White Supremists and and openly talk about their love of such groups.

So if a man wearing an open boarders shirt makes that official Dem policy because he was an elected official and high up in the party doesnt that make hate and White Power the policy of the GOP since their elected officials keep having their picture taken with them and talking about their love of those groups? How many of the GOP were in contact with those groups before the 6th? And after?

So if a tee shirts makes a policy why dont pictures and gushing love for those groups?

And the other question. Why do the other memebers of the GOP and the News channels like Fox speak out against that sort of thing?

Not one of them looked at the 6th and said "Hey those racist shirts, those racist people? They do not represent us.

They do not say, "Those members that court the support of the Oath Keepers and proud Boys, those members that speak at events featuring those members, and have photos taken with members of known hate groups are not what we want of our party.

I wonder why they never say that?

And as for a few asshats with tee shirts not representing the party because they are not elected officials? That whole group was there in their words at the invitation of the President. When you have a group of people there at the request of the President to help him keep power (Who did send them there in his speech) and that group is wearing highly racist shirts and waving their flags the members of that party damn sure speak out against it unless that party supports them and their views.

There isn't one GOP view on education policy, just as there isn't one Democratic view. Some individuals will be hypocrites, but in other cases there may be two politicians who want slightly different things. We can look at the specific comments/ bills/ etc.

Usually, the cases where people on the left complain about elected officials taking pictures with idiots aren't a result of the elected official knowing who the idiot is. I don't think it's a good idea to expect vetting of civilians in these kinds of situations. Obviously, there are exceptions like when Marjorie Taylor Greene did an event with Nick Fuentes she sure as hell knew who he was. So if you want my thoughts on a specific situation, share a link so that we have the same information.

Regarding the coup, it has yet to be established that Trump knew that the capitol would be breached, or planned for that. Obviously, he did a lot of other stuff wrong.

I suspect that if a member of Republican leadership had a white pride T-shirt, you guys would be apoplectic. But I do think someone's choices about how to communicate are a different question from who they spend time with. If a Democrat meets with members of the Democratic Socialists of America, it doesn't mean that he or she agrees with their agenda. I don't think you want to pull that thread.

Sometimes it seems the left wants Republicans to respond to the framing of things on left-wing Twitter, when it's probably best for all politicians to focus on other stuff.

[babyblob]

Some asshat Republicans will lose soon enough.

Recalls are only an option in some jurisdictions, and even in those cases, there are limits. For example, there are no recalls on federal officeholders which is probably a good thing. Imagine if there were special elections right now that could determine who controls the House or Senate in a week.

There isn't one GOP view on education policy, just as there isn't one Democratic view. Some individuals will be hypocrites, but in other cases there may be two politicians who want slightly different things. We can look at the specific comments/ bills/ etc.

Usually, the cases where people on the left complain about elected officials taking pictures with idiots aren't a result of the elected official knowing who the idiot is. I don't think it's a good idea to expect vetting of civilians in these kinds of situations. Obviously, there are exceptions like when Marjorie Taylor Greene did an event with Nick Fuentes she sure as hell knew who he was. So if you want my thoughts on a specific situation, share a link so that we have the same information.

Regarding the coup, it has yet to be established that Trump knew that the capitol would be breached, or planned for that. Obviously, he did a lot of other stuff wrong.

I suspect that if a member of Republican leadership had a white pride T-shirt, you guys would be apoplectic. But I do think someone's choices about how to communicate are a different question from who they spend time with. If a Democrat meets with members of the Democratic Socialists of America, it doesn't mean that he or she agrees with their agenda. I don't think you want to pull that thread.

Sometimes it seems the left wants Republicans to respond to the framing of things on left-wing Twitter, when it's probably best for all politicians to focus on other stuff.

It is very much not an unreasonable request to ask the GOP to speak out against Hate Groups and racists rather then court their support and pose for pictures with them. If you cant understand that then I am not sure what else to say.

[worstblogever]

I am not American but I identify with the values of (most of) the Democratic Party… but damn, this is one mighty incompetent current administration that is basically tearing your country apart, from rampant inflation, gas prices to a border crisis and lackluster economic growth. As a Republican, you don’t need to do much to win right now.

THIS is the incompetent administration?

They botched a response to a hurricane hitting Puerto Rico and blamed it on ALL THE WATER between the mainland country and the island.
The Trump admin decided to lock migrant children in cages after taking them away from their parents... AND THEN LOST THEM.
They f***ed up a pandemic response and let the president advise people to inject themselves with UV light or bleach.
THEY STAGED A FAILED COUP.


Like, by no stretch is the Biden administration knocking it out of the park, but they just had their Cabinet take over for predecessors who spent four years actively working to destroy the agencies they were running in the midst of a pandemic. But to call them incompetent compared to the act they're following? What the...?

[worstblogever]

It is very much not an unreasonable request to ask the GOP to speak out against Hate Groups and racists rather then court their support and pose for pictures with them. If you cant understand that then I am not sure what else to say.

At this point, Republican members of Congress are frequenting white nationalist gatherings to speak (MTG, Gosar, Biggs, former Congressman Steve King just off the top of my head), and Kevin McCarthy does f*** all to deter them and tries pretending his own members aren't exactly who they are.