All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[JackDaw]

You didn't. I was talking to Jack --- you know, the person who in the post I quoted mentioned self-declaration as a route to cheating.

(Just to let you know, have just spent 10 minutes fact checking myself, trying to find out if most womens sports at top level do rely just on self declaration of gender presently or usually carry out additional checks. It varies a bit from sport to sport, of course. But I’m happy to say that effectively you are right, most rely on self declaration and I was mistaken. Not completely unknown.)

[Farealmer]

You dont care yet you brought it up then made dozens of posts debating it. The others at least care and are presents their views to back up why they care. You dont care and still are debating for now reason. That is light weight trollish. We have what 5, 6, 7 pages of this debate you dont care about but wont let go. Come on man.

That's not far from what I was thinking myself. Normally I don't care about the usual drama that goes on here. But when I have to go through 5+ pages when I wake up just to see relevant stuff I take notice. Then it becomes why would someone do this? Because this is a bit of effort for no gain. I guess i will just have to wait until things tamper off.

[hyped78]

You dont care yet you brought it up then made dozens of posts debating it. The others at least care and are presents their views to back up why they care. You dont care and still are debating for now reason. That is light weight trollish. We have what 5, 6, 7 pages of this debate you dont care about but wont let go. Come on man.

I am sorry but I can engage in debate on whatever I want, that is democracy. If I hadn’t been insulted left and right perhaps I would’ve let it go, but I was called “pathetic troll”, “white supremacist”, “racist”, “bigot”,… “sealion”, the list goes on and on. And, by the way, we didn’t start with trans.
If a person doesn’t like someone else’s posts == don’t read them.

You’re the guy who sent me the codes to get free packs on MTG Arena, please don’t change the good image I have of you by also resorting to insults.

[kidfresh512]

I am sorry but I can engage in debate on whatever I want, that is democracy. If I hadn’t been insulted left and right perhaps I would’ve let it go, but I was called “pathetic troll”, “white supremacist”, “racist”, “bigot”,… “sealion”, the list goes on and on.

You’re the guy who sent me the codes to get free packs on MTG Arena, please don’t change the good image I have of you by also resorting to insults.

Can you PLEASE use the multi quote function? I know it's been asked of you already. It is highly annoying having to sift through you posting 3 posts in a row over and over for pages and pages when you could just multiquote different people and continue the silly arguments.

[Jack Dracula]

Because I can

To be honest, it didn't even start with "trans", it started with "woke" vs. "not woke" and people unable to realize that you can be moderate center-left and be "anti" woke culture (apparently like Obama)

It’s not even about trans - at the end of the day, do I care if trans participate in women’s sports? I don’t, either way (and who am I to decide? Or any of us?)

It started with your unsolicited declaration" Trans women have no place in women's sports." So it seems you actually care a great deal about the subject. You argued for several pages about it.

I didn't say scientific consensus isn't possible. I said it doesn't exist right now and more work is needed towards that.

I didn't say you said it isn't possible. I agree that it doesn't exist right now.
You stated several times that contradictory studies exist and admitted that reporting bias is also a factor which proves that consensus isn't likely yet you impose the stipulation that it must be achieved before trans athletes can compete.

Again: You've already proven that a consensus isn't likely, (also my conclusion from earlier) so we're back to your original statement of "Trans women have no place competing in women's sports."
So when you say you "have as much factual basis in saying they have an advantage as there is factual basis in saying there is no advantage" it means You have no basis for your opinion that trans women have no place competing in women's sports.

So again, what are you basing your very strong opinion on?

[hyped78]

I didn't say you said it isn't possible. I agree that it doesn't exist right now.
You stated several times that contradictory studies exist and admitted that reporting bias is also a factor which proves that consensus isn't likely yet you impose the stipulation that it must be achieved before trans athletes can compete.

Again: You've already proven that a consensus isn't likely, (also my conclusion from earlier) so we're back to your original statement of "Trans women have no place competing in women's sports."
So when you say you "have as much factual basis in saying they have an advantage as there is factual basis in saying there is no advantage" it means You have no basis for your opinion that trans women have no place competing in women's sports.

So again, what are you basing your very strong opinion on?

ChadH, then what you are saying isn’t the same some of the others are saying. Some of the others are saying that there is total and complete scientific consensus (someone even compared this to debunking flat earth, as if that comparison has any merit whatsoever!), a slam dunk conclusion, and that there shouldn’t be any type of debate on this, that it’s a done deal that trans do not have any type of advantage vs. females in women’s sports. That only “bigots” can question that the scientific evidence isn’t at the consensus and definitive level.

The “only” difference between what you and I are saying (and it’s a big one, of course!) - and I am happy to see you are obviously more rational that some of the other folks - is that you are saying “when in doubt, let them compete”, while I am saying “when in doubt, do not let them compete for the time being”. Is this a fair assessment? (“doubt” being whether there is advantage or not)
Does this answer your last question?

On achieving scientific consensus - of course its possible. It doesn’t exist now, but getting there is obviously possible with more data and studies, which of course takes time.

I am actually arguing more for my right to have an opinion, overall - and then ignorant folks (not talking about you) who think their view is dogmatic truth hurl insults

[Dalak]

Can you PLEASE use the multi quote function? I know it's been asked of you already. It is highly annoying having to sift through you posting 3 posts in a row over and over for pages and pages when you could just multiquote different people and continue the silly arguments.

I will note that the ignore list is an option, it makes things much easier to sift through. I haven't read anything not-Quoted by this one since yesterday morning.

[hyped78]

I actually think it’s been practically non existent to date. But I do fear it might become a factor at very top level of some sports IF we moved to a system where self declaration was not subject to any caveats (such as demonstrating HRT therapy had reached some agreed point.)

100% agree, this shouldn’t be hard to realize

[hyped78]

I will note that the ignore list is an option, it makes things much easier to sift through. I haven't read anything not-Quoted by this one since yesterday morning.

Don’t worry, you’ve embarrassed yourself enough already with silly flat earth comparisons (yikes!!!)

[babyblob]

I am sorry but I can engage in debate on whatever I want, that is democracy. If I hadn’t been insulted left and right perhaps I would’ve let it go, but I was called “pathetic troll”, “white supremacist”, “racist”, “bigot”,… “sealion”, the list goes on and on. And, by the way, we didn’t start with trans.
If a person doesn’t like someone else’s posts == don’t read them.

You’re the guy who sent me the codes to get free packs on MTG Arena, please don’t change the good image I have of you by also resorting to insults.

I dont care if your view of me changes. To say you dont care about something when you are the one who brought it up and then engage in pages and pages of things defending a view you dont care about is trollish. I havnt insulted you at all on any of these posts. But keeping a topic going for no reason (And not caring about it is no reason) then it is trollish. You have no point of view to defend. You have no dog in the fight. Whatever any other members post on the subject doesnt matter because you dont care. If you dont want push back on things dont post about a view you yourself said you dont care about.

I say to all members he admitted he does not care. So whatever yuo say does not matter. lets just let this drop. 6 freaken pages is enough to engage a guy that does not care.

You have a right to yours. They have a right to theirs. 6 pages have made it clear where everyone stands on this,. Good Grief.

[kidfresh512]

I will note that the ignore list is an option, it makes things much easier to sift through. I haven't read anything not-Quoted by this one since yesterday morning.

I was trying to do my good deed for the day and help someone be a better poster. I don't think I have anyone on ignore so far but you are right.

____________________________

Was just watching on local news this sad case

Arlene Alvarez's parents speak after grand jury declines to indict man charged in 9-year-old's death

HOUSTON — The family who mourned the loss of Arlene Alvarez just five months ago is now facing another heartbreaking hurdle after learning the man who fired the shot that killed the 9-year-old will not be punished for her death.

Tony Earls was no-billed by a grand jury Tuesday. Harris County District Attorney Kim Ogg said the jury ultimately decided he had no criminal intent to harm Arlene, which resulted in them declining to indict.

"To say that we're disappointed wouldn't be enough," said April Aguirre, Arlene's aunt. "We feel defeated because they so quickly came to a decision we don't agree with.

"I go back to that day every night and I know what happened," said Gwen Alvarez, Arlene's mom. "Maybe Earls was not accountable for his actions but he knows with what intentions he did. With what intentions he shot at our vehicle because self-defense is not more than nine shots. He knew what he was doing and he knew he was going to intentionally kill whoever was in that vehicle."

I mean I just don't get how you can spray 9 shots at a vehicle you THOUGHT was the car of the guy who robbed or attempted to rob you. Kill a little girl in the process and be like oops self-defense.

Of course the original robber should be caught and go to jail. But, part of being a responsible gun owner should be making sure you are aiming at the right perps when you are in "self-defense" mode. How can spray and pray be self-defense especially when you shot at the wrong damn car?

[hyped78]

I dont care if your view of me changes. To say you dont care about something when you are the one who brought it up and then engage in pages and pages of things defending a view you dont care about is trollish. I havnt insulted you at all on any of these posts. But keeping a topic going for no reason (And not caring about it is no reason) then it is trollish. You have no point of view to defend. You have no dog in the fight. Whatever any other members post on the subject doesnt matter because you dont care. If you dont want push back on things dont post about a view you yourself said you dont care about.

I say to all members he admitted he does not care. So whatever yuo say does not matter. lets just let this drop. 6 freaken pages is enough to engage a guy that does not care.

As mentioned before, I do care about having the right to have my opinion without being insulted right off that bat. That yes, it is extremely important for me.
And you’re wrong on not defending my POV - I’ve been doing that all along… unlike others with silly insults.

Some years ago when I was in high school I went to a politics forum and they were talking about the war in Iraq. I mentioned that I understood the Afghanistan invasion but that the invasion of Iraq was unjustified as no WMDs had been found. I didn’t know but the forum was full of right-wingers who proceeded to spam with Fox News articles about supposed WMDs (yeah sure…) and basically stated that anyone who thought the invasion was unjustified and that there were no WMDs was a worthless troll, a communist, a socialist, a hippie and whatever else.

What we have here - from many, but not all folks - is EXACTLY the same attitude but from the other side of the spectrum. The “woke warriors” are the “Magas” of the left.

[hyped78]

Can you PLEASE use the multi quote function? I know it's been asked of you already. It is highly annoying having to sift through you posting 3 posts in a row over and over for pages and pages when you could just multiquote different people and continue the silly arguments.

You’re right. Thank you, will try to be better at that

Is there a way to “merge” posts/quotes after they’ve been posted or do I have to do the multi quote from the start?

[babyblob]

I was trying to do my good deed for the day and help someone be a better poster. I don't think I have anyone on ignore so far but you are right.

____________________________

Was just watching on local news this sad case

Arlene Alvarez's parents speak after grand jury declines to indict man charged in 9-year-old's death



I mean I just don't get how you can spray 9 shots at a vehicle you THOUGHT was the car of the guy who robbed or attempted to rob you. Kill a little girl in the process and be like oops self-defense.

Of course the original robber should be caught and go to jail. But, part of being a responsible gun owner should be making sure you are aiming at the right perps when you are in "self-defense" mode. How can spray and pray be self-defense especially when you shot at the wrong damn car?

A responsible gun owner would never have fired fired. It is clear there was more then one car around A responsible gun owner would have said "Hey something may go wrong if I start spraying bullets." They would have called the police. The mother is right. Self defense is not 9 shots. he was looking to kill whoever he shot at. Sadly it was an innocent little girl and he will never be held responsible for that.

[hyped78]

Man I tell you what. Fox News will not stop running with the good guy with a gun story.

Mass shootings wuld be a thing of the past if people just followed that guys example.

Good Grief.

When the answer for some is “more guns”, including in schools… well, mass shootings in Europe are quite rare and we don’t carry around guns