All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Mister Mets]

There are now calls for killing doctors for providing health care to trans people.

The people standing with transphobes need to look at their allies. And then in the mirror.

There should certainly be agreement that death threats are outrageous and wrong, and that anyone making those should be reported to the authorities.

And before we here this statement.

A person does have a right to their views that Trans teens should not be able to transition. A person can hold those views. But the second a person acts to make those views laws, either a law maker passing bills, or a person voting for a law maker that wants to ban gender care.

Then it moves from an opinion to oppression. And that is 100 percent wrong every time. A personal view should never interfere with a persons freedom to be who they are, to marry an adult of their choosing, to vote for who they wish, to make decisions about medical care.

The second a person take steps to restrict those basic human rights because of their views they become something less then human themselves.

There are implications to this kind of hard-core libertarianism.

If we're not supposed to ever interfere with a person's freedom, what about conditions like anorexia where they will harm themselves? If someone is having a psychotic breakdown, should they get what they are asking for at that moment?

Sometimes it's going to take a while to figure this stuff out.

But any opinion will be more respected if it's an informed opinion. Opinions based on facts should always get more respect than opinions based on bullshit.

Public opinion is often behind the times when it comes to social change and acceptance of things outside of the current "norm". Look at polling on interracial marriage, gay marriage, gay adoption, etc. before it was implemented and then 10-20 years after once they see it in action and realize it's not the end of the world or even a fraction of the deal opponents swore up and down that it would be. Public servants are tasked with many things, but one of the most important is realizing what needs to be done despite popular opinion then having the courage to do it.

It's a tough question about when politicians should make an unpopular call.

Although it is worth noting that gay marriage had majority support, by the time it became the law throughout the country.

There is also a bit of a gamble when it comes to results. Sometimes a change become more unpopular (see prohibition.) Sometimes new information settles enough questions.

[hyped78]

I mean, the medical establishment agrees, and the medically proven benefits of allowing transition for teens outweighs pretty much anything you have to say on the matter. The only reason to oppose is out of personal discomfort and vague notions of 'adulthood'. It won't be long before transphobes start arguing for 25 because 'brain maturity'.

"the medical establishment agrees" - that is not factually correct. A part of it does, a part doesn't. E.g. UK NHS scientific advisors mostly don't (they agree with 18)

[hyped78]

At the end of the day it doesnt matter how any outside feels about Trans teens receiving gender care. The only people whose views on it that should matter are the Trans Teen, their parents, and the doctors involved.

If a person is not one of those people. Their view on the subject really doesnt matter.

If they support it great. But it is not their call.
If they dont support it it doesnt matter because it is not their call. No matter how much the GOP lawmakers and voters think it is.

At the end of the day passing laws that dont even give the Trans teen, parents and doctors the right to do what they feel is in the best interest of the Trans Teen is evil. And people that support those laws range from Misguided because of their own hang ups to down right evil because of their hatred of the Trans Community.

Don't agree with that libertarianism. Unless you also think:
- No mandatory vaccinations
- No mask mandates
- No mandatory seat belts and motorbike helmets
- Abortion legal up to any point, even if very late in pregnancy

If it's personal decision/ freedom, then it should be for a lot of other things, can't cherry pick.

[babyblob]

There are implications to this kind of hard-core libertarianism.

If we're not supposed to ever interfere with a person's freedom, what about conditions like anorexia where they will harm themselves? If someone is having a psychotic breakdown, should they get what they are asking for at that moment?

Sometimes it's going to take a while to figure this stuff out.

There is a huge difference in treating mental health illness and anorexia where a person's life is on the line. Where without treatment it would be fatal. A person having a psychotic breakdown (and I know because I have had several) is not of sound of sound mind in the least. A person who is not of sound mind can not make choices for themselves.

A trans Teen and their parents choosing Gender care is not the same at all as a batshit bonkers person like myself going nuts at a Kroger and demanding someone kill me. That is also why there are mental health doctors involved in Gender care (At least here in Ohio) Part of Gender care here requires a Trans minor to talk receive a mental health assessment to make sure they are of sound mind.

So no A trans teen and there family seeking medical care is not the same as a crazy person on a mental breakdown trying to eat a bullet.

if you cant see there is a huge difference in a person on a mental break not having a sound mind to make their own decisions and a Trans teen, their parents and doctors coming to a choice then I am not sure what else I can say.

[babyblob]

Don't agree with that libertarianism. Unless you also think:
- No mandatory vaccinations
- No mask mandates
- No mandatory seat belts and motorbike helmets
- Abortion legal up to any point, even if very late in pregnancy

If it's personal decision/ freedom, then it should be for a lot of other things, can't cherry pick.

Again these cases, Mask Mandates, vaccinations, they save lives. Seat belts save lives. What life is being saved by preventing a Trans teen from seeking care? Whose life is being saved by not allowing two gay people to marry? Whose life is being saved by allowing a black person to vote for who they want.

Laws are being passed and are talked about being passed to prevent these things. it is not about life saving it is about taking away someones freedoms based on hate.

As far as abortion in to very late pregnancy? The right wing talking heads make it sound like this happens all the time. And the fact is it does not.

[Mister Mets]

A month ago, Emily Bazelon wrote an overview on for the New York Times over the arguments on gender therapy for teenagers who wish to transition.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/15/m...r-therapy.html

It seems to be a good overview of where the science is.

There was some pushback on the left, including from a member of Congress, which worries me about heated responses on this topic. If a congresswoman is upset that the New York Times published a well-written article, there is likely going to be other pushback in left-wing spaces to similar material. It seems obvious that there's pressure in progressive spaces (which includes much of the media and academia) to only go with material that fits a preferred narrative, which implies that any news that doesn't fit it will take much longer to be disseminated.


This is a sensitive topic, but it's an urgent one given the major social changes in the number of teenagers asking for gender-affirming care, and the lack of clear guidance.

[hyped78]

Also, who is paying for transition surgery, private or public? If it's the latter then taxpayers obviously should have a word on how they want their money to be used! (democracy)

[babyblob]

Also, who is paying for transition surgery, private or public? If it's the latter then taxpayers obviously should have a word on how they want their money to be used! (democracy)

Then should tax payers also have a say in cancer treatments caused by people smoking if they dont agree with smoking, or mental health treatments if they dont think mental health problems are real, or drug treatment programs, or car crash victims if the person was speeding because they dont agree with speeding? Or a liver transplat for a man who killed his because of drinking? Or hey they dont like black people so as a tax payer theyare not paying for their medical care? This kid got his fingers blown off in a fireworks accident. I hate fireworks, ill be dammed if I am paying for his treatment?

The second you decide to let the tax payers decide who and why a person can get treated with public money set aside for health issues we are done as a society.

[CaptainEurope]

Also, who is paying for transition surgery, private or public? If it's the latter then taxpayers obviously should have a word on how they want their money to be used! (democracy)

What if I don't want my money to treat smokers for COPD or lung cancer because I hate smoking?

It's not how it fucking works. If a medical professional agrees with the procedure, the people paying into health insurance do not get to veto that decision.

[CaptainEurope]

Psych, babyblob! Great minds.

[babyblob]

Psych, babyblob! Great minds.

Lol I saw that I am glad people see how foolish that argument can be.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Jesus! Are we STILL beating the transgender dead horse around?

[Tendrin]

Jesus! Are we STILL beating the transgender dead horse around?

Yes, because reactionaries thinks it's a *great* wedge issue. Seriously, when someone gets on the terf-horse, it eventually becomes all they can talk about/think about and they're incapable of shutting up about it. That's how Graham Linehan nuked his own career.

[babyblob]

Jesus! Are we STILL beating the transgender dead horse around?

I have said move on a few times and I am doing a really bad job listening to myself. But when some one compares Trans Teens seeking medical care to a person on a psychotic breakdown, or another poster talking about tax payers decided on medical care for treatments they dont agree with is pretty sickening to me. And I can just let that slide.

When in the hell did the age start that protecting peoples right became some hard core extreme view?

[babyblob]

Here is some good news. A feel good story of someone helping out during a tough time.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...valde-victims/