All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[CaptainEurope]

So the burn pits / veterans care bill has passed. 11 Republicans continue to stand against veterans, but enough of the other ones caved under pressure.

GOP senators who voted against burn pits bill, which passed 86-11:
Crapo
Lankford
Lee
Lummis
Paul
Risch
Romney
Shelby
Tillis
Toomey
Tuberville

Reminder: Mitt Romney would not be one of the "good Republicans" if such a thing existed.

[CaptainEurope]

Some good news for those who care about family values:

Biden administration task force reunites 400 migrant families separated under Trump

More than 5,000 families were separated under Trump’s 2018 “zero tolerance” policy and a 2017 pilot program and advocates estimate over 1,000 remain separated. Because the Trump administration did not keep records of which children were separated and where they were sent, the task force and lawyers working on behalf of separated families have had a difficult time identifying families to offer them the chance of reunification.

In the majority of recently reunited cases, Brané said, the parents were deported while the children remained in the U.S. Now, parents are given the opportunity to come to the U.S. on paid travel, bring other members of their family who are dependent on them, and live and work in the U.S. legally for three years.

Here is a detail Republicans would never consider:

Brané said the reunification also includes mental health services for families both before and after reunification. She said many of the families have suffered from profound mental health issues after their separation and counseling is often needed before they reunify.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Kansas voters reject anti-abortion constitutional amendment



Bottom line, this shows that Republicans are on the wrong side and that this could mean more losses for Republicans in November.

Indeed. I hope the GQP continues being on the wrong side, and that defeat left the right leaning Supremes with sour stomachs.

[Zauriel]

Pelosi expected to visit Taiwan, Taiwanese and US officials say
https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/01/polit...sit/index.html

She is not the first US official to visit Taiwan since the US gov't declared People's Republic of China as the sole legitimate Chinese government. Speaker Gingrich visited Taiwan in 1997 and mainland China was hardly bothered by it. So why would China be mad about now?

[WestPhillyPunisher]

She is not the first US official to visit Taiwan since the US gov't declared People's Republic of China as the sole legitimate Chinese government. Speaker Gingrich visited Taiwan in 1997 and mainland China was hardly bothered by it. So why would China be mad about now?

My uninformed guess: Because it's a WOMAN visiting Taiwan.

[Gray Lensman]

My uninformed guess: Because it's a WOMAN visiting Taiwan.

China has gotten a lot more aggressive concerning Taiwan over the last 20ish years. Look at all the celebrities who have had to apologize by their employers over even mentioning Taiwan. I remember John Cena having to do so in a language I don't even think he speaks because an off hand remark threatened the bottom line.

And while it might not be a factor, Pelosi is also from the same party as the current PotUS, whereas Gingrich was in the opposition. To China, it might look like this visit is a de facto official state visit via proxy.

[hyped78]

- Stimulus package is/was deflationary or, at most, didn’t/ doesn’t create inflation

Not far-left.

- Recognizing that the Nazis were evil and unjustified (which is totally correct) but that Stalin, Pol Pot etc. had a justification/ rationale for mass murder (“to stay in power”)

No argument fom me regarding your view, both regimes are evil, communism has more victims but there is a point where one cannot quantify which evil is worse. I don't remember seeing anyone defending communist regimes here though. (But I noticed that people in western countries are more likely to pick Nazis as the ultimate villain.)

Defending, advocating for more state intervention, for increased weight of a state in an economy is left-wing (Keynesianism or any other brands of that), as is bailing out businesses, extreme quantitative easing etc. Notice that I said "left-wing", not "far left". However, being oblivious/ not worrying about inflation in the context of macroeconomic expansionary policies is the trademark of far-left economists.

You cant make a claim of seeing all these far left crazy things said and then say

"Well I dont have time to go back and quote people and prove my point. Just you know take my word for it."

If you have a point to make and can back it up with quotes and words we have typed take the time to go look. other wise this just boils down to "I am going to say a bunch of stuff. Not work to prove I am right then get upset when I am called out on it."

This boils down to prove it and I will say sorry. or stop putting words in our mouth.

OK, some examples:
"We're right in the middle of the pack and blaming the government doing stuff for inflation is just GOP propaganda, especially since they (and Joe Manchin) stop the government from exerting any deflationary pressures" - Page 3229
"Complete nonsense" (replying to "they basically stopped the government from printing more money and creating even more inflation") - Page 3230
"I have not seen one math book that talks about race." - Page 3230
"'Woke' doesn't exist. It never existed" - Page 3233
"Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism" (this is a very typical sentence to mask anti-semitism) - Page 3236
"There is no debate, go hear what doctors have to say about the capabilities of transgender athletes" - Page 3242
"That the UK has a huge media issue with transphobia isn't up for debate" - Page
"The Nazis stand out from any other not by the numbers, but for the reasons. Or lack thereof, really. Stalin and Mao killed more, but people can wrap thier heads around it because it was about staying in power. With Hitler, and to a lesser degree Pol Pot, the murders weren't a means to an end, but the end goal in and of themselves. It horrifies people to an even larger degree than other mass murders because of the lack of reason behind it." - Page 3250

I was trying to find the post about the war on terror supporting torture but couldn't find it (it was posted by worstblogever, he probably remembers that) - that's one of my favorites.

And I'll stop it there, too many pages to go through.

[hyped78]

My uninformed guess: Because it's a WOMAN visiting Taiwan.

I don't think it's because she is a woman, but rather because geopolitically a lot has changed between 1997 and 2022. China in 1997 weren't the super power they are now, economically, politically, technologically, militarily, etc.

In 1997, China's GDP was 961.6 billion USD vs. US at 8.6 trillion USD. An economic dwarf when compared to the US. In 2021, China's GDP was 17.7 trillion USD vs. the US at 23 trillion USD. There will be an inflection point in the next few years when China's economy will become bigger than the US economy (this is gross, not per capita). In 2022, China can do a lot of yelling.
Still, I think Pelosi did the right thing, more politicians could learn from her.

China sees a "Democrat" coming to visit, they don't make a distinction between Biden, Pelosi, Kamala, etc. - they don't care to make such a distinction.

I suppose it all depends on definition of “far left”.

But in my mind to qualify as far left, a posting would effectively need to be advocating force and/or terrorism to bring about a fundamental change in society. On that definition I can’t remember a single far left posting on these boards.

That's not my definition of "far left". Everyone is entitled to their own definition, of course, not even political scientists have "the" definition, and definitions on political spectrums change with geographies, over time, etc.

I'll give you a UK example of what I consider "far left" - Jeremy Corbyn. In France, Jean-Luc Melenchon. In Spain, Pablo Iglesias. In the US, Bernie Sanders. I don't consider to be "far left" only the anarchists who are trying to overthrow the government, as I also don't consider "far right" only the Qanon crowd and the Proud Boys.

And no, I don't think anyone on this thread wants revolution or to overthrow the government (I hope haha!).

[babyblob]

Defending, advocating for more state intervention, for increased weight of a state in an economy is left-wing (Keynesianism or any other brands of that), as is bailing out businesses, extreme quantitative easing etc. Notice that I said "left-wing", not "far left". However, being oblivious/ not worrying about inflation in the context of macroeconomic expansionary policies is the trademark of far-left economists.



OK, some examples:
"We're right in the middle of the pack and blaming the government doing stuff for inflation is just GOP propaganda, especially since they (and Joe Manchin) stop the government from exerting any deflationary pressures" - Page 3229
"Complete nonsense" (on "they basically stopped the government from printing more money and creating even more inflation") - Page 3230
"I have not seen one math book that talks about race." - Page 3230
"'Woke' doesn't exist. It never existed" - Page 3233
"Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism" (a very typical sentence to mask blatant anti-semitism) - Page 3236
"There is no debate, go hear what doctors have to say about the capabilities of transgender athletes" - Page 3242
"That the UK has a huge media issue with transphobia isn't up for debate" - Page
"The Nazis stand out from any other not by the numbers, but for the reasons. Or lack thereof, really. Stalin and Mao killed more, but people can wrap thier heads around it because it was about staying in power. With Hitler, and to a lesser degree Pol Pot, the murders weren't a means to an end, but the end goal in and of themselves. It horrifies people to an even larger degree than other mass murders because of the lack of reason behind it." - Page 3250

I was trying to find the post about the war on terror supporting torture but couldn't find it (it was posted by worstblogever, he probably remembers that) - that's one of my favorites.

And I'll stop it there, too many pages to go through.

Guess you had time after thank you.

The math Book one was my comment. How is "I have not seen one math book that talks about race" a far left statement? I was not taking a side one way or the other in that statement. In fact I said when you showed me a book that I do not agree with the example you gave. So how is that a far left view?

Anti-semitism is not a far left view. it fact it is very much a view held by many on the right. So including a statement about anti Semitism to show a far left view I do not understand. I have seen many on the left speak openly and stongly for their support of Israel. Not a huge talkng point for the left But I have heard it from many on the left and they often speak out against Anti Semitism in a way those on the right fail to do (See Jewish Space Lasers)

Uk having a media issue with Transphobia is also not a far left view.

Go hear what doctors have to say about Trans athletes is also not far left view. It is using a medical professionals statement on the issue. You posted yours they posted theirs.

Cant comment on the rest because as I said I dont know economics. And I want to go back and read the others for context. I didnt see a defense of Stalin or the others for their actions. I just saw that for some it is easier to understand their motivations then those of the Nazis. That is not speaking in defense.

[hyped78]

Five Thirty Eight updated their election model 10 hours ago and they are now predicting that the Democrats are slightly favored to win the Senate:
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...e/?cid=rrpromo

This is the first time that their model has the Dems winning the Senate. They are specifically giving the Democrats an 80% chance of holding between 47 and 53 seats.

[Tendrin]

Many Jewish people are not 'pro-Israel' and anti Zionist. That doesn't mean they hate Jewish people, and frankly, calling that a far-left view and assuming anti-semitism of the people who say that and painting that as 'far left' is fucking disgusting.

[hyped78]

Guess you had time after thank you.

The math Book one was my comment. How is "I have not seen one math book that talks about race" a far left statement? I was not taking a side one way or the other in that statement. In fact I said when you showed me a book that I do not agree with the example you gave. So how is that a far left view?

Anti-semitism is not a far left view. it fact it is very much a view held by many on the right. So including a statement about anti Semitism to show a far left view I do not understand. I have seen many on the left speak openly and stongly for their support of Israel. Not a huge talkng point for the left But I have heard it from many on the left and they often speak out against Anti Semitism in a way those on the right fail to do (See Jewish Space Lasers)

Uk having a media issue with Transphobia is also not a far left view.

Go hear what doctors have to say about Trans athletes is also not far left view. It is using a medical professionals statement on the issue. You posted yours they posted theirs.

Cant comment on the rest because as I said I dont know economics. And I want to go back and read the others for context. I didnt see a defense of Stalin or the others for their actions. I just saw that for some it is easier to understand their motivations then those of the Nazis. That is not speaking in defense.

Math book - it's about the left/ far left dismissing all claims of CRT in schoolbooks as an invention. I sent you a CNN article that showed a maths textbook submitted by the publisher and that was rejected in Florida, that had maths problems based on racism statistics that say that Conservatives are more likely to be racist

Anti-Semitism - you're right, it's both a far left and a far right thing, the extremes touch themselves on many things

"Go hear what doctors have to say" - you're right, but that's not what their point was. Their point was "there is NO debate on this topic", as if it's a scientific certainty (and it obviously isn't).

Stalin and others - it's not a "defense" per se, it's trying to justify the rationale for killing millions of people. It's saying that Hitler and the Nazis has no justification but that the left wing dictators at least had a justification/ rationale for what they did. While this is not the same as defending what they did, it's kind of a very poor taste excuse, downplaying 100 million deaths.

[hyped78]

Many Jewish people are not 'pro-Israel' and anti Zionist. That doesn't mean they hate Jewish people, and frankly, calling that a far-left view and assuming anti-semitism of the people who say that and painting that as 'far left' is fucking disgusting.

"Zionism is the right of Jewish people to self-determination in their ancestral homeland"

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...-anti-semitism

I know that they are strictly not the same, but usually one follows the other. Many people like to disguise their blatant anti-semitism with saying they're "only anti zionists" (and that's what's really disgusting in this day and age)

"But others see anti-Zionism as a fig leaf for old-fashioned anti-Semitism. Yes, of course it’s possible to be a staunch critic of Zionism and not to be anti-Semitic, but mostly you find that the two go together."

https://www.intelligencesquared.com/...anti-semitism/

"Anti-Zionism is a flourishing politics today on many university campuses and on parts of the left, and the standard response from many Jewish organizations and from most of the Jews I know is to call it the newest version of anti-Semitism. But anti-Zionism is a subject in itself; it comes in many varieties, and which ones are anti-Semitic—that’s the question I want to address here. I take “Zionism” to mean a belief in the rightful existence of a Jewish state, nothing more. Anti-Zionism denies the rightfulness. My concern here is with left-wing anti-Zionism in the United States and Europe."

https://www.dissentmagazine.org/arti...-anti-semitism

- Khadim Hussain, a former Lord Mayor of Bradford, was suspended from Labour after he shared a Facebook post that referred to "the six million Zionists that were killed by Hitler"
- Alex Chalmers, a former co-chair of Oxford University Labour Club, said some members regularly used the word "zio" - despite it being regarded as an ethnic slur.
- But it's been widely argued that the term "Zionist" has, in some circles, become a code word for "Jew" and that bigotry against Jewish people has been expressed using the language of anti-Zionism

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36160928

[babyblob]

Math book - it's about the left/ far left dismissing all claims of CRT in schoolbooks as an invention. I sent you a CNN article that showed a maths textbook submitted by the publisher and that was rejected in Florida, that had maths problems based on racism statistics that say that Conservatives are more likely to be racist

Anti-Semitism - you're right, it's both a far left and a far right thing, the extremes touch themselves on many things

"Go hear what doctors have to say" - you're right, but that's not what their point was. Their point was "there is NO debate on this topic", as if it's a scientific certainty (and it obviously isn't).

Stalin and others - it's not a "defense" per se, it's trying to justify the rationale for killing millions of people. It's saying that Hitler and the Nazis has no justification but that the left wing dictators at least had a justification/ rationale for what they did. While this is not the same as defending what they did, it's kind of a very poor taste excuse, downplaying 100 million deaths.

You used my words as a far left talking point. Saying I have never heard of a math book is not a far left talking point. Even more so when I agreed I dont agree with it. So if you want to talk about the maths books being proof of CRT fine post that link again. Do not use my words that are not far left in any way as an example of far left talking points. Even more when I agreed that race has no race in math books.

As for the Stalin thing. i dont feel they were downplaying at all in that comment. They were saying the motivations as to why he did what he did was easier to understand then Hitler. Trying to maintain a power base through murder and fear is easier to understand and it is easier for people to wrap their heads around then the murder of millions of people based on race and religion. It is easier for me to understand at least. I am not saying he is right. I am not downplaying what he did I am just saying it is easier to understand why he did what he did then Hitler. Staying in power is a more easy to understand goal then the genocide of a whole race based on hate.

[hyped78]

You used my words as a far left talking point. Saying I have never heard of a math book is not a far left talking point. Even more so when I agreed I dont agree with it. So if you want to talk about the maths books being proof of CRT fine post that link again. Do not use my words that are not far left in any way as an example of far left talking points. Even more when I agreed that race has no race in math books.

As for the Stalin thing. i dont feel they were downplaying at all in that comment. They were saying the motivations as to why he did what he did was easier to understand then Hitler. Trying to maintain a power base through murder and fear is easier to understand and it is easier for people to wrap their heads around then the murder of millions of people based on race and religion. It is easier for me to understand at least. I am not saying he is right. I am not downplaying what he did I am just saying it is easier to understand why he did what he did then Hitler. Staying in power is a more easy to understand goal then the genocide of a whole race based on hate.

No, I'm sorry but it's not "easier to understand", and it's not OK to consider that it's easier to understand what Stalin did vs. Hitler. E.g. the Holodomor in the Ukraine in the 1930s which was a forced famine that killed 3.5 to 5 million Ukrainians is not "easier to understand" under any circumstance. There are many other examples, I am just referring to the Holodomor specifically.

It's also not "easier to understand" that in less than 4 years Pol Pot murdered 1.5 to 2 million of his citizens.

Saying that one mass murderer is "easier to understand" than others is the same as, even if indirectly, downplaying what the others did. That is not acceptable.

The link with the Florida mathbooks:
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/22/u...les/index.html