All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[CaptainEurope]

I got Establishment Liberal.

I'm a queer voter of the German Green Party who, my younger years, was involved in party politics and was considered part of the "realist" wing of the party, so it seems a good fit.

However, some of the 16 questions I could have answered either way. Do I believe most prison sentences in the US are too harsh? Yes. Do I believe prison sentences for rich White people are too lenient? Also yes.

[Kevinroc]

Do we know it wasn't, though? I find it hard to imagine that Schumer of all people would not have had some kind of backroom discussion with Sinema before going public with the deal. It looks to me like she decided to be the Democrats' Susan Collins on this... act very concerned about the tax increase on the mega rich, then vote for it anyway.

We didn't know. But people did question it until Sinema came out for it. So, at least in the minds of the political left, it was not a foregone conclusion.

[CaptainEurope]

I am not shocked that the majority of the people here are to the left of 81% of the population.

Welcome to understanding normal distribution and bell curves. Not a single one so far seems to be "far left" though.

[CaptainEurope]

We didn't know. But people did question it until Sinema came out for it. So, at least in the minds of the political left, it was not a foregone conclusion.

Ah, so you meant "says it all" about the minds of the political left?
Yes, we are all a bit stressed out and used to expecting the worst. We need to get over that. Hope. Change. Let's get back to that.

[Tendrin]

Over the past four years, opponents of transgender rights and protections have pushed a theory called “rapid onset gender dysphoria,” or ROGD, asserting that more young people are publicly identifiying as trans due to “social contagion.” "Trans people have long known this theory to be completely false, but now, a new study has finally proven it for good."

A study published Wednesday in the journal Pediatrics is the latest to demonstrate how the numbers just don’t line up in ROGD’s favor. Scientists analyzed data from the CDC’s 2017 and 2019 Youth Risk Behavior Survey in 16 states, looking particularly at the ratio of trans and gender-diverse youth who were assigned female at birth as opposed to those assigned male. The ROGD theory posits that trans identification is exploding specifically among AFAB youth, who are being preyed upon by “gender ideology” — but this analysis of nearly 200,000 adolescents disproves that hypothesis.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/...8710bcd861c10b

Gee. What a shocker.

Far from rising, the number of trans and gender diverse youth identified in the survey actually dropped significantly between 2017 and 2019, falling from 2.4% to 1.6%. And while the ratio of assigned-male to assigned-female trans youth did shrink, going from 1.5:1 to 1.2:1 over the two years analyzed, researchers found the numbers actually changed because there were fewer transfeminine youth in the latter survey, not more transmascs.

I guess the ROGD theory has suffered some irreversible damage.

[Jeremi]

Welcome to understanding normal distribution and bell curves. Not a single one so far seems to be "far left" though.

I got progressive left

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...4d93ae019cb478

I.e. what most Americans should be lol.

[worstblogever]

Well Sinema agreed to voting for the Climate n Tax bill.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...day/index.html

I don't trust her to not pull a swerve at the last f***ing moment to just do a "thumbs down" to flex and show everyone what a "big important senator" she is.

She's got serious malignant narcissist vibes, and would litigate in ways that would kill millions strictly for the photo op.

So... yeah, I want to wait until the vote's over before I breath a sigh of relief.

[CaptainEurope]

I don't trust her to not pull a swerve at the last f***ing moment to just do a "thumbs down" to flex and show everyone what a "big important senator" she is.

She's got serious malignant narcissist vibes, and would litigate in ways that would kill millions strictly for the photo op.

So... yeah, I want to wait until the vote's over before I breath a sigh of relief.

Hope, dagnabbit! Change, duggamit!

[JackDaw]

This is a bit interesting in that the progressive left and establishment liberals are less than a fifth of the population.

You guys are really overrepresented in the culture, and it should be rare for you to get any of your unique policy goals.



If it's demonstrably false, demonstrate it.

Bernie…certainly the Bernie of the last 20 years has never advocated the violent overthrow of the US government to set up a socialist Utopia. He hasn’t advocated that the government nationalise most of the main industries to control directly the commanding heights of the economy. He hasn’t made any serious proposals to make inheriting wealth exceptionally difficult.

What on Earth makes anybody think he’s far left??

He’d be regarded as an establishment stoolie by most of my family in the distant days of my youth.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I don't trust her to not pull a swerve at the last f***ing moment to just do a "thumbs down" to flex and show everyone what a "big important senator" she is.

She's got serious malignant narcissist vibes, and would litigate in ways that would kill millions strictly for the photo op.

So... yeah, I want to wait until the vote's over before I breath a sigh of relief.

And probably while wearing some silly outfit that makes her look like a cosplayer at an anime convention to boot. That chick is seriously messed up in the head.

[hyped78]

Over/under on how long Griner will have to wait: eighteen months, then Putin will greenlight said swap. Perhaps longer if Vlad decides to be pissy over U.S. (indirect) involvement in Ukraine.

I hope she doesn't have to wait that long...

Surprised you regard Bernie Sanders as “far left”.

I can see why he’s regarded on US scene as such…but I think just looking at his policies, he’d be regarded as fairly moderate in most Western European countries…and in UK terms I’d see him as being a good fit for mainstream Labour Party, less leftwing than Jeremy Corbyn, with more constructive well thought out policies.

What specifically makes you think he’s far left??

I've made a post back there listing some of his policy proposals/ views which explain why I consider him Far Left (or Progressive Left/ Establishment Left, according to that compass)
Bear in mind that this kind of started because some people are saying that he's not regarded, even in the US, as Far Left.

It's just that's an opinion that isn't actually informed by facts.

It's like saying that it's your opinion that the Earth is flat. Okay, I guess it's cool that you believe that but it's demonstrably false.

It's completely not the same and obviously you know it, that sounds a bit desperate. Also, it's not the first someone uses "flat earth" as a radical example on this thread so you can at least try to be more original than that!
Try answering that compass as if you're Bernie Sanders/ his views - I think it's hard not to get "Progressive Left" (far left)

I think China is watching very closely to how sanctions against russia are proceeding and calculating how much they could get away with.

I'm not sure the west can afford to trigger the same scale of economic sanctions on China, but let's see

I am not shocked that the majority of the people here are to the left of 81% of the population.

And that was my point all along, no surprise either

[hyped78]

I have to say I am shocked at the number of Establishment liberals on such a Far Left Thread!

Shocked? Like Mister Mets said, the majority of people here are to the left of 81% of the population. And there's a bunch of "Progressive Left" folks here (Far Left; noting again that I have nothing against the Progressive Left).

They're all too busy waiting to breathelssly complain about the left 'cancelling' an obscenely wealthy comedian.

Who, Chappelle? I watched his controversial comedy special on Netflix, I don't think I laughed a single time

[hyped78]

Welcome to understanding normal distribution and bell curves. Not a single one so far seems to be "far left" though.

It's hard to say that when various folks have already said they got "Progressive Left" - that's far left on that compass (and 6% of the population, apparently). And I would put "Establishment Liberals" in Far Left or Left. "Democratic mainstays" in Left and "Outsider Left" Center-left.

[hyped78]

Bernie…certainly the Bernie of the last 20 years has never advocated the violent overthrow of the US government to set up a socialist Utopia. He hasn’t advocated that the government nationalise most of the main industries to control directly the commanding heights of the economy. He hasn’t made any serious proposals to make inheriting wealth exceptionally difficult.

What on Earth makes anybody think he’s far left??

He’d be regarded as an establishment stoolie by most of my family in the distant days of my youth.

Sorry, but I don't consider that in 2022 in democratic societies you have to advocate for terror or a socialist utopia to be "Far Left". I consider the folks who got "Progressive Left" here on this compass to be Far Left, for example, if the compass is correct etc.

You don't consider Corbyn UK/ Melenchon FR/ Iglesias ES far left? You don't consider all the european communist parties as far left? Note that none of them advocate overthrowing the government or establishing a socialist utopia. This is 2022.

Answer that Compass quiz with Bernie's views and I think you'll get "Progressive Left", as all some others on this thread got.

[hyped78]

On the bolded, this is good. We got to look at a textbook example of "whataboutism" the other day, and now we have a follow-up textbook example of what the kids call a "strawman". That is, when you manufacture a position that's easier to argue against and defeat than the argument actually made by the other side.

In this case, pointing out how while we do criticize those things when non-Jewish Middle Eastern countries do them people don't notice it because it's agreed upon and understood. It's when you do it with Israel and a portion of the commenters seem to blank out reality and act as if it isn't happening with them, and any suggestion of anything nefarious is in reality thinly veiled antisemitism.

I've literally said and repeated (and am repeating) that both sides do it, but both sides don't get equal condemnation. That's bad, because when you do that you enable that bad behavior to continue. You encourage it. As to naive/out of touch with reality, you're literally not reading (or intentionally misreading, because again much easier) what I've said and are manufacturing an argument of "Arabs always good, Jews always bad". Please show me where I said such a thing, or even suggested such a thing.

On the border, they've expanded slowly since then and are continuing to. It's not a new development or a hidden one. I imagine if you care about politics at all you've read or heard about it. So why ignore it?

On Arab minority status, fine to freeze them out but then don't declare yourself a democracy because like Turkey or Russia you have elections. Elections sadly don't make a democracy. Actions and treatment of all citizens do. It's why I criticize my own country.



You don't have to make it clear that Israel is superior to its neighbors or that they're better overall than Russia or North Korea. You only have to point out that they have deep flaws that need addressing, and be able to point that out without denial or accusations of antisemitism. Otherwise you're attempting to change the argument to a more comfortable one.

Saying that if they're not exactly as bad as one country or another then comparisons can't be made (in which case I'd say look up the definition of "comparison") is absurd.

Unsurprisingly I'm on the left end of the spectrum (didn't give the Democratic Party a high score, but not sure if that helped or hurt).

"On the border, they've expanded slowly since then and are continuing to" - what "border"? Or what "borders"? Let's be more precise in what we're talking about, please, what border(s)? Are you talking about borders or about settlements?

"but both sides don't get equal condemnation" - they don't? At least here in Europe it's mostly (not always) Israel getting criticized and the Palestinians getting defended - I can send you news articles from reputed newspapers. I can understand that that might be different in the US?

"On Arab minority status, fine to freeze them out" - what do you mean 'freeze them out'? I mentioned that it's written in Law in Israel that Arab Israelis have the same rights as Israeli Jews, this is a fact (are you denying this?). The only major difference is having to serve in the IDF, which brings about many economic/ social advantages, but Arab Jews can choose to serve or not to serve (most don't because of obvious stigma).
And I didn't say that they're a democracy just because they have elections (but also because they have elections, of course) - I sent you data showing that they have one of the highest Human Development Indexes in the world, far above that of any Arab nation. There are various other ways to demonstrate that Israel is a democracy, or at least far more democratic than Arab nations.

According to democracymatrix.org, Israel are even ranked above the US in quality of democracy (and above any/all Arab country):
https://www.democracymatrix.com/ranking

I see that you disregarded all the other points. You're presenting very little substance in your arguments, just some very general notions/ soundbytes of "apartheid" and "land stealing" without explaining what that means, I have a feeling you're not that well versed in Israel/ Palestine, which is quite common when people talk about this topic.