All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[hyped78]

Eco's original ur-fascist essay is well worth reading for anyone who hasn't.

Especially when it's a publication that confirms our bias, right?

I will read it - I've heard about it but never read it

[hyped78]

You disagree with the text book definition. I am not going to get hung up on words and do 5 pages on what defines what like that Far left Far right debate on here. I see that several of the boxes are being checked off to me that is fascism.

You can talk about the definition all you want and that is fine. meanwhile we are living it and having to deal with the consequences. So in 2024 when I am told

"You voted good for you.... But it wasnt for our guy so tough luck." I am not going to be hung up on a definition of a word. I am just going to be angry and sad at what we allowed this country to become.

I gave you the textbook definition (or one of them, happy to see others) and most of it doesn't fit to what you are saying (you're projecting things into 2024 that haven't happened, mostly)

If you think that power is going to be taken over illegally in 2024, then I would agree with you - but that hasn't happened, has it? You're kind of already projecting a doomsday scenario

[hyped78]

I dunno, I feel like Umberto Eco or Emilio Gentile has a better idea of what constitutes a fascist than you do.

Has Gentile called Trump a "fascist"? (just asking)

[babyblob]

I gave you the textbook definition

If you think that power is going to be taken over illegally in 2024, then I would agree with you - but that hasn't happened, has it? You're kind of already projecting a doomsday scenario

I am predicting a doomsday scenario because the GOP openly talk about and promise that Scenario. This inst tin foil hat guy on a street corner yelling about aliens.

This is an openly talked about plan by the GOP current lawmakers, and candidates have said. It is what a major News network is talking about all the time.

So I am not projecting a Doomsday Scenario. The GOP are promising a doomsday scenario.

It is not fear mongering if people are actively making plans to make it happen.

I dont care about text book definitions. I go with what I see by my own eyes. To me it is fascism. To you its not. We know each other views. No need to clog down and keep debating.

[hyped78]

I am predicting a doomsday scenario because the GOP openly talk about and promise that Scenario. This inst tin foil hat guy on a street corner yelling about aliens.

This is an openly talked about plan by the GOP current lawmakers, and candidates have said. It is what a major News network is talking about all the time.

So I am not projecting a Doomsday Scenario. The GOP are promising a doomsday scenario.

It is not fear mongering if people are actively making plans to make it happen.

OK, so the GOP in 2024 is going to (and why are they waiting for 2024?):
- Steal the election and install a dictator
- Stop all further elections
- Ban/ outlaw the Democratic Party
- Remove your personal freedoms at many levels
- Establish martial law
- Completely direct the economy in a centralized way. Private companies will exist but they are bound to do what the state tells them to
- Become self-sufficient
- Invade and annex territories
- Mass killing of its citizens and those of other countries

Some of these? All of these?

I mean, if this is correct then my advice is to move out of the US while you can, honestly...

[Dalak]

I am predicting a doomsday scenario because the GOP openly talk about and promise that Scenario. This inst tin foil hat guy on a street corner yelling about aliens.

This is an openly talked about plan by the GOP current lawmakers, and candidates have said. It is what a major News network is talking about all the time.

So I am not projecting a Doomsday Scenario. The GOP are promising a doomsday scenario.

It is not fear mongering if people are actively making plans to make it happen.

I dont care about text book definitions. I go with what I see by my own eyes. To me it is fascism. To you its not. We know each other views. No need to clog down and keep debating.

The GoP are packing elections boards and other bodies that govern over voting as we speak and have been doing so for the past 2 years, and they have been doing so with the stated goal of combating the nonexistent fraud that occurred in 2020 that resulted in Trump losing. This is a fact, and will result in them being able to overturn valid elections for the simple reason that the opponent won, which is what Trump and the riot of Jan 6th failed to do previously.

The modern GoP are if not facists themselves, the diet version. Just as dangerous if ignored and need to be reigned in by any saner minds left within their ranks before they could possibly lead us to a new civil war.

[hyped78]

The GoP are packing elections boards and other bodies that govern over voting as we speak and have been doing so for the past 2 years, and they have been doing so with the stated goal of combating the nonexistent fraud that occurred in 2020 that resulted in Trump losing. This is a fact, and will result in them being able to overturn valid elections for the simple reason that the opponent won, which is what Trump and the riot of Jan 6th failed to do previously.

The modern GoP are if not facists themselves, the diet version. Just as dangerous if ignored and need to be reigned in by any saner minds left within their ranks before they could possibly lead us to a new civil war.

Oh, now there's going to be a civil war... the scaremongering has risen up to new levels

"packing elections boards and other bodies" - is this, in itself, illegal? (I'm asking, no idea)

[babyblob]

OK, so the GOP in 2024 is going to (and why are they waiting for 2024?):
- Steal the election and install a dictator
- Stop all further elections
- Ban/ outlaw the Democratic Party
- Remove your personal freedoms at many levels
- Establish martial law
- Define right social classes in the country, through labor laws, healthcare laws and others
- Completely direct the economy in a centralized way. Private companies will exist but they are bound to do what the state tells them to
- Become self-sufficient
- Invade and annex territories
- Mass killing of its citizens and those of other countries

Some of these? All of these?

I mean, if this is correct then my advice is to move out of the US while you can, honestly...

You are so hung up that it has to match the 100 percent textbook definition that you are ignoring the GOP who have openly said they will not certify the legal results of a legal election if their guy Trump or whoever does not win. You are ignoring the candidates and lawmakers on the state level who have openly said they would ignore votes that are not for their guy. Openly ignoring the fact that many have said they would not recognize the election of those who won and do everything they could to keep them from taking the positions they were elected to. We had a candidate talk about making legal votes for the other guy invalid with just the stoke of his pen if he is elected.

So get mad at the guy who is not using a word 100 percent the way it is meant to be used in your view but ignore the people who have openly stated they are not only in favor of these things but are going to do them.

It is not fear mongering when you point out all the things the other side has openly said they will do!

[babyblob]

Kevin McCarthy has said that he will not certify a 2024 election where Trump or the GOP candidate is not the winner.

So it is not fear mongering to say

"Kevin McCarthy will not do his legal duty and certify an election that the GOP lost."

It is no fear mongering to talk about the laws making it harder for groups to vote.

it is not fear mongering to point out a Candidate for Attorney General has openly said he will take votes that are not for the candidate of his party and make them invalid.

It is not fear mongering to use their own words as a base of what they will do. It is called a fact of what they will do because they have talked about it openly.

A man says he will shoot me The Police wont tell me I am fear mongering because I report it to them.

[AnakinFlair]

Beyond the Senate race here in Pennsylvania between John Fetterman and carpetbagging Dr. Oz, I’m most interested in the Georgia race between Raphael Warnock and Hershel Walker who continually sounds more and more deranged every time he opens his mouth. The really sad part of is all is that Walker probably doesn’t even know he’s being used as a pawn by Mitch McConnell to snare that Senate seat by any means necessary.

To be honest, I'm not even sure Walker is aware that he is running for Senate.

As for polling- if the past few years have taught us anything, it's that you CAN'T TRUST POLLING. I won't feel comfortable until the winners are sworn in, and that's only if the fascist Republicans allow it in some states.

[Dalak]

Kevin McCarthy has said that he will not certify a 2024 election where Trump or the GOP candidate is not the winner.

So it is not fear mongering to say

"Kevin McCarthy will not do his legal duty and certify an election that the GOP lost."

Things like that, lying to Congress before being appointed to the Supreme Court, and refusing to hold lawbreakers to account simply because you agree with them politically (From Trump on down) are all illegal acts but ones that are gotten away with, and with frightening regularity. The modern GoP doesn't care, and those voting for them are encouraging this behavior by enabling it.

[useridgoeshere]

To be honest, I'm not even sure Walker is aware that he is running for Senate.

As for polling- if the past few years have taught us anything, it's that you CAN'T TRUST POLLING. I won't feel comfortable until the winners are sworn in, and that's only if the fascist Republicans allow it in some states.

One problem with polling, especially at this stage, is that is can't account for enthusiasm (wanting to vote) and access (being able to vote). Republicans have worked really hard to make it harder for Democrats to cast their ballot, so a polling lead might not materialize as folks are denied their rights when they try.

[hyped78]

You are so hung up that it has to match the 100 percent textbook definition that you are ignoring the GOP who have openly said they will not certify the legal results of a legal election if their guy Trump or whoever does not win. You are ignoring the candidates and lawmakers on the state level who have openly said they would ignore votes that are not for their guy. Openly ignoring the fact that many have said they would not recognize the election of those who won and do everything they could to keep them from taking the positions they were elected to. We had a candidate talk about making legal votes for the other guy invalid with just the stoke of his pen if he is elected.

So get mad at the guy who is not using a word 100 percent the way it is meant to be used in your view but ignore the people who have openly stated they are not only in favor of these things but are going to do them.

It is not fear mongering when you point out all the things the other side has openly said they will do!

OK, then let's not look at textbook definitions. Who in the leadership of the GOP are we confidently comparing to Mussolini or Hitler?

[hyped78]

Kevin McCarthy has said that he will not certify a 2024 election where Trump or the GOP candidate is not the winner.

So it is not fear mongering to say

"Kevin McCarthy will not do his legal duty and certify an election that the GOP lost."

It is no fear mongering to talk about the laws making it harder for groups to vote.

it is not fear mongering to point out a Candidate for Attorney General has openly said he will take votes that are not for the candidate of his party and make them invalid.

It is not fear mongering to use their own words as a base of what they will do. It is called a fact of what they will do because they have talked about it openly.

A man says he will shoot me The Police wont tell me I am fear mongering because I report it to them.

I totally agree with everything you said. But that's still not "fascism" - and I said that fear mongering is always posting about "fascism" and "fascists", unless people clearly identify that they're just using it as a pejorative term (which might be the case!)

[hyped78]

As for polling- if the past few years have taught us anything, it's that you CAN'T TRUST POLLING.

That's an interesting/ important point. Why do you think some polling has been incorrect, especially at a state level? Bad sampling? "Timid/ Hidden" GOP voters? Something else?