All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[PwrdOn]

That's a bit complicated. The people who actually financed colonization are also those who enjoy the benefits of immigration while the domestic labor movement opposes illegal immigration because it can be used as leverage against the value of labor just as building a factory overseas (often in former colonial regions) takes advantage of cheap labor and can lead to loss of manufacturing domestically. So, increasingly powerful business conglomerates - even if they are overtly conservative - are the driving force for lax immigration policies or policies that put the increasing number of immigrant workers at a severe disadvantage - while increasingly weakening labor interests - even if apparently liberal - offer the primary resistance to lax immigration and better wages and protections for legal immigrants as well as all workers.

Of course, if a nation completely undercuts labor and drives down wages, then who will be able to afford the stuff you're making in your factory? Solution: credit cards to pump up demand with debt that will realistically never be paid off.

Another solution would be to provide public services to support unemployment, housing, medical needs and all the basic necessities of living so that wages can be as low as possible and still allow consumption of goods produced. However, then people wouldn't be so desperate with debt that they'll take any job offered.

Except that it's not primarily immigrants that are driving down wages in America, because by and large immigrants and native-born workers occupy different lanes in the labor market, because of course this is America and segregation is our national pastime. For example, Trump put a freeze on those H-1B visas supposedly to protect American workers in high tech sectors from competition, but the reality is that there aren't nearly enough Americans willing and able to fill the huge gaps in the labor force that will create, and so these industries will suffer immensely. Not to mention that all of the hostility that this administration has shown toward immigrants will likely leave an imprint that will persist even if a more friendly regime takes over, meaning that the workers that this country needs and depends on to sustain our standard of living might just stay away and take their talents elsewhere. The poster I was replying to before was puzzled as to why anyone would choose to live in China over the USA, well there are huge numbers of workers in China's tech sector that were educated and trained in American universities, and would have loved to stay here and integrate into American society, but were driven away by racism and xenophobia and now are applying their skills to build companies that will directly harm American interests. And you'll certainly start to see this sort of "reverse brain drain" toward countries all over the world if the hostility and nativism continue, and I have no reason to expect that it won't.

[Kirby101]

Trump went to play golf for the 272nd time. That is 21% of his Presidency playing golf.

Almost 10% has been at his rallies.

[The no face guy]

IÂ’m not sure if you know this, but the vast majority of people living on the planet canÂ’t just pack up and move wherever the hell they want and expect to be treated with dignity and respect. Of course living standards are going to be higher in colonizer countries, thatÂ’s why they have laws to try and keep everyone else out so they donÂ’t have to share it with their former subjects.

I was talking about people on this forum, who speak glowingly of China and Communist countries, not people stuck in developing countries.

Pwrdon, I'm really curious about something, where are you getting your information from? Who and what are you reading that has helped shape your views on western colonialism. In short, who are the authors I should be reading if I wanted to understand your viewpoints? and what would be your recommended reading list?

Not "people" just two. The rest see the absurdity.

Thankfully, when I came on here I thought I would be debating a bunch of avatar people like "Mister Mets" (who I appreciate his courage of continually providing an adversarial right wing vewpoint, as it's always healthy to debate and question your own political credo)

I never imagined though, that I'd be continually engaged in conversations with people who see the United States less favourably than a country like Venezuela.

[Tami]

Trump went to play golf for the 272nd time. That is 21% of his Presidency playing golf.

if I were to guess: 21% Golfing; 35% watching Cable News; 10% interacting (barely) with intelligence briefers and other members of government; 25% Eating, sleeping, Tweeting, and calling his friends (including Putin); 8% holding rallies or talking to the Media.

That final 8% is likely to get bigger now that Trump has decided that the Pandemic is over.

[AnakinFlair]

Just because he did it, does it lower the bar that much for every future president? After all, it's not like Trump proved you could not only win an election and actually be a good president with no qualifications. It's more like he proved the opposite.

Oh, god no. But people are stupid, and many will vote along party lines no matter how bad the candidate is. I mean, I would like to hope that America has seen what 4 years of the Tangerine Nightmare has given us and never vote for someone so unqualified again, but then I see all of the people still going to his rallies (not as many as he'd like, but still far too many) and all of the idiots bitching about wearing a mask, and I realize they absolutely will vote for someone so unqualified again, as long as there is an 'R' next to their name.

[Tami]

I was talking about people on this forum, who speak glowingly of China and Communist countries, not people stuck in developing countries.

Pwrdon, I'm really curious about something, where are you getting your information from? Who and what are you reading that has helped shape your views on western colonialism. In short, who are the authors I should be reading if I wanted to understand your viewpoints? and what would be your recommended reading list?




Thankfully, when I came on here I thought I would be debating a bunch of avatar people like "Mister Mets" (who I appreciate his courage of continually providing an adversarial right wing vewpoint, as it's always healthy to debate and question your own political credo)

I never imagined though, that I'd be continually engaged in conversations with people who see the United States less favourably than a country like Venezuela.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not someone who see the U.S. as 'horrible'. It's a nation with great promise, but it still has a long way to go. Condemning the U.S. for it's past is like denying ex-prisoners the right to vote, the right o a job, the right to an education. You learn from the past, lessons that sometimes take generations to take hold, then you move towards the future. Whatever from the past you need to fix and can fix, you fix. Whatever you can't, you make sure it that never happens again.

Transcript of Dr. Martin Luther King's speech at SMU on March 17, 1966

We live in a great nation, the greatest nation, the richest nation on the face of the earth, and I submit this afternoon that any nation that can spend billions of dollars to put a man on the moon can spend billions of dollars to put a man on his own two feet here on earth.

Just one relevant paragraph from a speech with a lot to think about in it.

[Gray Lensman]

And there are still people out there who will vote for Trump because ..... :shrug:

To quote George Carlin....

Think of the stupidity of the average person, and realize...half of them are dumber than that!

[The no face guy]

Hi Tami I wasn't referring to you, to be honest I haven't read your posts, there two people on this forum in particular (who I will not name) that swing further to the left than Che Guevara and Red Rosa...I say this as someone who prefers countries like France and Denmark over the US model.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

And there are still people out there who will vote for Trump because ..... :shrug:

Those are the knuckledraggers who support Trump for the racism and general owning of the libs. They need no other reason.

[PwrdOn]

I was talking about people on this forum, who speak glowingly of China and Communist countries, not people stuck in developing countries.

Pwrdon, I'm really curious about something, where are you getting your information from? Who and what are you reading that has helped shape your views on western colonialism. In short, who are the authors I should be reading if I wanted to understand your viewpoints? and what would be your recommended reading list?




Thankfully, when I came on here I thought I would be debating a bunch of avatar people like "Mister Mets" (who I appreciate his courage of continually providing an adversarial right wing vewpoint, as it's always healthy to debate and question your own political credo)

I never imagined though, that I'd be continually engaged in conversations with people who see the United States less favourably than a country like Venezuela.

That's exactly the point though, eh? If you have spent your whole life surrounded by people like those on this forum who live relatively comfortable lives in wealthy countries and rarely have to confront the true scale of global inequality head on, of course you're going to struggle to understand why people would not view the West as some kind of benevolent shining city on a hill. It's really something you need to experience for yourself, not something you can get out of a book, though I'm sure that if you did make an effort to engage with these kinds of people you'll find that they're far less hostile and far more welcoming toward people like you than the other way around. But if you want some nice overviews on the subject of colonialism, Era of Darkness by Shashi Tharoor is a pretty good look at British colonialism in India, and if you want something more America-centric you can try 1491 and 1493 by Charles Mann. And if you really want to read a hard left polemic like you were probably thinking I would list, there's always Settlers by J. Sakai, though admittedly I have yet to read the whole thing myself.

[Tami]

Those are the knuckledraggers who support Trump for the racism and general owning of the libs. They need no other reason.

I think it might also be the desire to 'do whatever they want'. Open up all the stores and hold large conventions, sure. Work out at the gym or have a gun collection that would make the Army jealous, no problem. Tell others to 'Go back home', or harass them because you feel like it, go right ahead. Damn the consequences, who cares?

In a way, these 'Conservatives' are more in line with Anarchism or even Anarcho-communism. No wonder they have a fondness for Russia.

[Robotman]

According to polls about 40% at least. We are getting a very good indication of the level of racism and stupidity in this country.

In the end it will come down to who votes and who is ALLOWED to vote.

It’s tragic and infuriating that near 40% of Americans vote for candidates specifically because it will hurt certain demographics (of their fellow Americans!). This country is fueled by so much hatred, vindictiveness, and racism.

[Ragged Maw]

I think it might also be the desire to 'do whatever they want'. Open up all the stores and hold large conventions, sure. Work out at the gym or have a gun collection that would make the Army jealous, no problem. Tell others to 'Go back home', or harass them because you feel like it, go right ahead. Damn the consequences, who cares?

In a way, these 'Conservatives' are more in line with Anarchism or even Anarcho-communism. No wonder they have a fondness for Russia.

I wouldnt be surprised if there was a considerable portion of democrats with a fondness for having a quaint little armory at home and had no desire to ban guns (albeit on the condition of checks and screenings), but simply cant stand the NRA and think legal gun owners can do just fine without them

[The no face guy]

That's exactly the point though, eh? If you have spent your whole life surrounded by people like those on this forum who live relatively comfortable lives in wealthy countries and rarely have to confront the true scale of global inequality head on, of course you're going to struggle to understand why people would not view the West as some kind of benevolent shining city on a hill. It's really something you need to experience for yourself, not something you can get out of a book, though I'm sure that if you did make an effort to engage with these kinds of people you'll find that they're far less hostile and far more welcoming toward people like you than the other way around. But if you want some nice overviews on the subject of colonialism, Era of Darkness by Shashi Tharoor is a pretty good look at British colonialism in India, and if you want something more America-centric you can try 1491 and 1493 by Charles Mann. And if you really want to read a hard left polemic like you were probably thinking I would list, there's always Settlers by J. Sakai, though admittedly I have yet to read the whole thing myself.

Well from my own life experience I will say I disagree with your above comments, your replies are very ideological, and it is my opinion that they are not something that can just arise from life experience alone, i however thank you for being honest and listing some authors, I have heard of Charles Mann, I will look into the rest.

[godisawesome]

I wouldnt be surprised if there was a considerable portion of democrats with a fondness for having a quaint little armory at home and had no desire to ban guns (albeit on the condition of checks and screenings), but simply cant stand the NRA and think legal gun owners can do just fine without them

I think that desire can’t be denied; there’s a reason why even countries with strong gun control laws still have successful gun ranges and eclectic gun collectors willing to follow dozens of proscriptions and rules just so they can say “Dude! This is an actual LeMat Revolver!“