All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[babyblob]

Not excusing their behavior, but you can tell they’re Democrats because they own it instead of just doubling down.

They can own it as they take their asses out the door.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

But even Trump isn't 100% sure he'll never go to jail. He knows it's highly unlikely, but just in case, he wants a place to go where he can't be extradited.

True, but the logistics involved for Trump to flee the country would be insane, like something out of a spy novel. First, he’d have to ditch his Secret Service detachment, not an easy thing to do I would imagine (unless he had loyalists on said detail who’d willingly look the other way), then find a way to hop on a plane and sneak out while his movements were followed by the press. Chances are if Trump were to book, he’d probably have to do it alone since the extra baggage of Melania or his kids would slow him down. Unless Trump got external help from Russia, like Hitler helped Mussolini break out of an Italian prison during the tail end of World War II, I just don’t see Caramel Caligula going anywhere, though lord knows I’d be happy if he did leave.

[Mister Mets]

The New York Times has a piece on the response to an attack in a Park Slope city park which left a dog dead.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/07/n...-brooklyn.html

Real-world ethics question: In a well-used city park, a man with a history of erratic behavior attacks a dog and its owner with a stick; five days later, the dog dies. The man is Black, the dog owner white; the adjoining neighborhood is famously progressive, often critical of the police and jail system. At the same time, crime is up in the neighborhood, with attacks by emotionally disturbed people around the city putting some residents on edge.

In a dog-loving, progressive enclave, where pushing law and order can clash with calls for social justice, what’s the right thing to do? How do you protect the public without furthering injustice against this man?

Here’s what happened in Park Slope, Brooklyn, when real-life residents faced this situation.

On Aug. 3, Jessica Chrustic, 40, a professional beekeeper, was walking her dog in Prospect Park a little after 6 a.m. when she saw a man rifling through the garbage outside the Picnic House. She had seen the man before — tall, with dreadlocks wrapped in a turban, carrying a long staff and often muttering to himself or cursing — and she usually kept her distance. But this morning there was no room to avoid him.

According to Ms. Chrustic, he started yelling about immigrants taking over the park, then grabbed a bottle of what she later concluded was urine and sloshed it at her and her dog. She tried to run away, but Moose, her 80-pound golden retriever mix, was straining toward the man, trying to protect her.

The man started swinging the stick, she said. One blow hit her, not seriously. Another connected solidly with the dog’s snout. Mary Rowland, 56, a hospital manager who was walking her dog nearby, said she heard the crack of wood on bone and came running toward them, screaming at the man to get away.

Both women called 911, and four patrol cars arrived within a few minutes. But by then, the man was gone. “Moose was bleeding from his mouth and pulling to get home,” Ms. Chrustic said. “My focus was just on caring for him.”

Ms. Chrustic was physically unhurt, but she was shaken. How could this happen in a park where she had never felt unsafe, even walking her dog late at night?

Moose had a shattered tooth that needed to be pulled. Ms. Chrustic posted a description of the encounter on the neighborhood social network Nextdoor, warning others about the man and asking them to report any sightings to the police. Her post elicited more than 280 comments in the coming weeks, mostly expressing sympathy. A total stranger on the forum offered to make her a bracelet with the name Moose on it.

But then the next weekend, Moose developed sepsis from a perforated intestine, caused by a blow Ms. Chrustic had not noticed. After emergency surgery, Moose died.

Weeks passed, and the man who attacked the dog was still at large. People on Nextdoor, working from Ms. Chrustic’s description, posted that they had seen him in one part of the park or another. Ms. Chrustic, who used to visit the park four times a day, now found it too traumatic to enter unless necessary.

She was especially frustrated that the man, who was well known to people in the park, had not been arrested. “You have a person who is walking around the park who is violent and needs to be removed,” she said. “He’s known by the community. It’s disheartening.”

It was a random incident that might once have been discussed by a group of dog owners. But now it had a forum for a much wider community, with arguments about policing, vigilantism, homelessness, mental health care and progressive obstinacy all feeding into a conversation that evolved beyond the crime that set it off.

The response was surprisingly divisive.

To Ms. Chrustic and many on Nextdoor, the issue was simple: A man who killed a dog and attacked its owner was a risk to everyone. She asked people who saw the man to call 911 and to send her photographs so she could confirm that it was really him.

Though most people on the site were supportive, some of the commentary and messages disturbed her. She was accused of not cooperating with the police; some suggested that she did not deserve a dog because she had not protected hers. “People can be horrible,” she said. “And people also take it as an opportunity to vent. It becomes a politically divisive conversation I have no interest in being a part of.”

A local elected official was not helpful.

Both Ms. Chrustic and Mr. Nammack separately appealed to their representative on the City Council, Shahana Hanif, for help, but they came away feeling her staff members were more concerned with the safety of the man — whom they presumed to be homeless and mentally ill — than with the threat he might pose to others.

Mr. Nammack said he was told: “‘We don’t want the police involved in this.’” He said, “They didn’t seem concerned that there was a public safety threat with this man at large, and that he needs to be dealt with. The bigger concern was keeping this man out of Rikers, and let’s not do anything.”

Under New York law, depending on the level of cruelty, killing a dog can be a misdemeanor or a felony, carrying a prison sentence of up to two years. Michael Whitesides, a spokesperson for Ms. Hanif, called the situation complicated. “We don’t believe that the N.Y.P.D. is the vehicle to bring safety to our community,” Mx. Whitesides said. “When it comes to this individual, they’re clearly a present danger to others and most likely themselves, and figuring out how we can safely de-escalate that situation without putting anyone else in danger is complicated.”

At this point, the top priority should be finding this guy and stopping him from hurting anyone else. The concern for his welfare is misguided politically and practically.

[Mister Mets]

I'd like to know if these Democrats consider themselves "Conservative" Democrats. I know in New York, especially Brooklyn, which is about 97% Democrat, there are many conservative Democrats who would register as Republicans anywhere other than New York, L.A. or Chicago, but they know that to have any chance of winning in NYC, (except for Staten Island) they have to be Democrats. But if they get elected, they govern as conservatives. I wonder if a similar situation exists in the Los Angeles City Council.

De Leon ran against Feinstein from the left, so they don't seem to be DINOs.

Yeah, the fact that Democrats weren’t able to get any voting rights protection past will have devastating consequences. When the US becomes a dictatorship we’ll have Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema to thank.

If the stakes are that high, it seems unwise for Democrats to include unpopular stuff in their voting rights protection efforts, like bans on voter ID requirements.

True, but the logistics involved for Trump to flee the country would be insane, like something out of a spy novel. First, he’d have to ditch his Secret Service detachment, not an easy thing to do I would imagine (unless he had loyalists on said detail who’d willingly look the other way), then find a way to hop on a plane and sneak out while his movements were followed by the press. Chances are if Trump were to book, he’d probably have to do it alone since the extra baggage of Melania or his kids would slow him down. Unless Trump got external help from Russia, like Hitler helped Mussolini break out of an Italian prison during the tail end of World War II, I just don’t see Caramel Caligula going anywhere, though lord knows I’d be happy if he did leave.

This would assume that he's formally charged. There may very well be a window before that what happens, when he would have some flexibility of movement.

[CSTowle]

I hate that his is happening from my community but there's some racism in Southern California coming from the Latinx community towards black people.

In California’s largest race bias cases, Latino workers are accused of abusing Black colleagues

There's racism between many different groups. Latino vs black, black vs Jews, East Asian vs black, everyone vs white, and vice versa. Tribalism. Any time groups live together or nearby some people are going to look down upon and/or compare themselves favorably to the other. Heck, you see it among the tribes/racial groups themselves. Different kinds of latin communities, English vs Irish, everyone hating the French, rural vs urban, etc.

[Adam Allen]

The New York Times has a piece on the response to an attack in a Park Slope city park which left a dog dead.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/07/n...-brooklyn.html



The response was surprisingly divisive.



A local elected official was not helpful.



At this point, the top priority should be finding this guy and stopping him from hurting anyone else. The concern for his welfare is misguided politically and practically.

Um. Okay. Step 1: Find this guy. When that's done, how exactly are you proposing we "stop him from hurting anyone else"? Like, without concern for his welfare?

I mean, from the description of the story as posted, it does sound like the guy is probably homeless and probably mentally ill. You know, going by the rifling-through-trash and sloshing a bottle of urine at them part.

Horrible as it is that the dog was killed ... what, political and practical considerations trump morality? So if Nextdoor organizes like a vigilante mob and some "neighborhood watch" person shoots this guy with a stick dead in the street, you would have no issue with that?

[Mister Mets]

Two people were shot outside the house of Congressman Lee Zeldin, the Republican candidate for Governor of New York. He and his wife were at an event in the Bronx. His daughters were home and unhurt. By all accounts, the shooting was not connected to the campaign or the Zeldin family.

Two people were shot on Sunday outside the home of New York congressman and Republican New York gubernatorial candidate Lee Zeldin, who has made addressing crime and violence a key point of his campaign, he said in a statement.

The shooting appeared to have no connection to the Zeldin family, CNN and the Wall Street Journal reported, citing police and officials familiar with the ongoing probe.

Zeldin said he did not know the identities of the two individuals who were shot, but said they had been laying down under his front porch and the bushes in front of it.

Zeldin said only his two daughters were at home at the time of the shooting. Further details of the shooting and its motives were not clear.

“My daughters are shaken, but ok. Like so many New Yorkers, crime has literally made its way to our front door,” Zeldin said in his statement.

Suffolk County Police said the two people injured in the incident were transported to area hospitals for treatment.

New York Governor Kathy Hochul, against whom Zeldin is running, said she had been briefed on the shooting.

Leaked Seattle PD documents suggest they're considering a new policy to not pursue DUI suspects who flee, even in a stolen car.

A draft policy mandates Seattle police allow DUI suspects to flee, even when they’re in stolen cars. And if a DUI suspect in a vehicle refuses to comply, officers must leave the scene. Some officers have already been told to follow this new guidance, according to multiple sources.

Captain Kevin Grossman in the North precinct outlined a draft policy dated Sept. 29, obtained by the Jason Rantz Show on KTTH. It has caused great confusion and its effects are reverberating across the department.

In an Oct. 1 email, Grossman sent out the draft to his officers, according to a source. It’s unclear why the captain released the draft or why he wrote it in the first place. While the Seattle Police Department (SPD) has not adopted this as an official policy, one source explained officers were verbally instructed to follow it in at least one precinct.

This seems to create some warped incentives.

The Atlantic has a spotlight on Kari Lake, Republican candidate for Governor. She's one of the least covered of the celebrity candidates running for statewide office, but polling suggests she may have the best chance of winning.

Lake is an elegant, polished speaker. Unlike Trump, she doesn’t ruminate on flushing toilets or offer random asides about stabbings and rapes. She presents a calm self-assurance that can make even the wackiest conspiracy theories seem plausible. “She could talk about lizard people and you’d be like, ‘What is up with those lizard people? That is a great point!’” an Arizona Republican operative told me. What other MAGA Republicans possess this kind of magnetism? Although Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is regarded as the most likely contender to inherit the mantle of Trumpism, onstage he is a charmless, wax-statue version of Trump. No, there’s something about Lake that makes people—viewers, voters—want to buy what she’s selling.

“She’s using 25 years of high-level journalism to present an idea,” another former Fox 10 colleague told me. “And she’s smart! She’s not dumb. Which makes her frickin’ dangerous, if you ask me.”

If she wins, she'll be a plausible Trump running mate in 2024 and might be a presidential contender in the 2028 cycle. If she loses, she's raised her profile significantly. She'd likely be the favorite for the Senate nomination in 2024, or might make some media deal as someone with media savvy popular on the far-right. The best case is that she's a shameless political chameleon, but we may end up with a major officeholder who really believes some crazy stuff.

[Mister Mets]

Um. Okay. Step 1: Find this guy. When that's done, how exactly are you proposing we "stop him from hurting anyone else"? Like, without concern for his welfare?

I mean, from the description of the story as posted, it does sound like the guy is probably homeless and probably mentally ill. You know, going by the rifling-through-trash and sloshing a bottle of urine at them part.

Horrible as it is that the dog was killed ... what, political and practical considerations trump morality? So if Nextdoor organizes like a vigilante mob and some "neighborhood watch" person shoots this guy with a stick dead in the street, you would have no issue with that?

He should be arrested and tried. The article isn't about people trying to make a vigilante mob, but trying to get the authorities, including the police and the local city council member, to do something.

The way some people are pushing against efforts to arrest him out of concern for his welfare is misguided politically, because this lack of response to violent and gross crime is not going to be politically popular, which is more likely to the elections of much stricter officials. It's misguided practically because it is delaying him getting the help he needs.

There's racism between many different groups. Latino vs black, black vs Jews, East Asian vs black, everyone vs white, and vice versa. Tribalism. Any time groups live together or nearby some people are going to look down upon and/or compare themselves favorably to the other. Heck, you see it among the tribes/racial groups themselves. Different kinds of latin communities, English vs Irish, everyone hating the French, rural vs urban, etc.

There definitely seems to be a bit of that in the story.

[Zauriel]

In leaked recordings, Democratic members of the Los Angeles City Council make some gross and racist statements in a conversation about redistricting.

\


Kevin de León is likely the best known of the candidates after challenging Dianne Feinstein for Senate in 2018.

It's interesting that in a political body this small (there are 15 members of the Los Angeles City Council) you've got so many assholes.

So the Democratic Party has racist members as the Republican Party? Maybe Both parties are the same. At least most of the racist Republicans don't hide their racism.

[CaptainEurope]

So the Democratic Party has racist members as the Republican Party? Maybe Both parties are the same. At least most of the racist Republicans don't hide their racism.

Oh, you have eyebrows just like Hitler did?

You know what that means.

[hyped78]

Its really just a “climate change bill” with a misleading name slapped on that still was designed (or retooled) to overwhelmingly coddle oil corporations, as The Guardian can confirm. Once again, corporate interests come first. But I suppose you’re not wrong in that it, as a tangential consequence, technically helps somewhat mitigate inflation

It's a good bill in terms of what it will do to fight climate change and (hopefully) reduce the deficit. But it will do zero to almost nothing in terms of inflation, which is why it's so interesting that it was called the "Inflation Reduction Act" - this is political propaganda. When you start asking people - especially folks that don't know anything about Economics and/ or have a political agenda - what the bill will do to reduce inflation, what parts of it, what are the transmission mechanisms, etc., you get uncomfortable silence.

I have been thinking about the situation in Sweden for example. For a long time, I used to dismiss all concerns about the integration and rising crime as right-wing fearmongering, but now I read that even liberal and left-leaning people agree that there is a problem and it was probably made worse by politicians ignoring it in a similar way for a long time. Which seems to be one of the reasons that anti-immigration far-right politicians are getting more and more votes. Not that I think they will make the situation any better, I expect that the opposite will be the case.
There have also been attacks on LGBT+ people in countries where one might not expect it, like recently in Norway. I have no problem with people immigrating into Europe, as long as they share our values and behave according to 21st century western standards. But I'm getting quite pissed if people who are here only thanks to liberals who were ready to welcome them, then end up basically increasing the number of violent, conservative types who would never have allowed them in.

I've been thinking about the same, in part also because of Sweden. But it's not just in Sweden. Here in the UK, in Leicester there have been riots between muslims and hindus in the past few weeks.

I think it's clear - even to the Left now - that Europe has a big problem that is growing, it's a powder keg. On the one hand, Europe has a problem with birth rates and demographics (especially countries like Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal) - if I remember correctly, there's not a single country in the EU+UK where the birth rates are enough to reproduce the existing population. You throw the welfare state sustainability into the mix and you've got a big problem. So Europe needs immigration, there's no other way around it, because birth policies aren't cutting it.

But then, on the other hand, you've got certain types of immigration that easily integrate and you have immigration from certain regions/ religions who just refuse to integrate - and Sweden is a great example of that, but it's not the only one. Even Denmark, with its left-wing government, has been starting to kick out migrants and refugees, including Syrians. The riots that you saw in Sweden will become more and more normal and undermanned and underfunded police are not able to cope with that - again, we saw that in Sweden.

It's no surprise that the far right is now a thing in Europe, where for many years it was just a complete joke. And I'm not saying the far right populists will solve anything - they won't, they are hate filled populists who prey on voters' fears to get to power. But to dismiss the issues of ordinary citizens and several European countries as just "far right fear mongering" is an extremely dumb attitude right now. The far right have won the election in Italy, they had a very good result in France (the way things are going, they will win the next presidential election) and Sweden (they will form a government with their right-wing allies).

Yes, there are other things are stake, like inflation and cost of living issues, but it's immigration and crime that explains why the far right is gaining so much ground and popularity, essentially being "normalized". I would challenge anyone to go to Paris to a neighborhood called Clichy, or even here in London to certain parts of Tower Hamlets - those areas are not "France" or the "UK", they are a great example of immigrants (muslim immigrants, mainly) refusing to integrate. This is not all on the immigrants - the State has the obligation to enable the integration of immigrants and refugees; but it's clear - and again Sweden is the prime example right now, with all the grenades (grenades!!!) and gang warfare being rampant - that the State is unable to do that, so what's the solution? (there's no easy solution to this, but this will just get worse and worse).

The left-wing Prime Minister of Sweden, who just lost the general election, said it best: "Segregation has been allowed to go so far that we have parallel societies in Sweden. We live in the same country but in completely different realities. We will have to reassess our previous truths and make tough decisions.”

And Angela Merkel had alluded to something similar: "We kidded ourselves a while, we said: 'They won't stay, sometime they will be gone', but this isn't reality." And of course, the approach [to build] a multicultural [society] and to live side-by-side and to enjoy each other... has failed, utterly failed."

I think it's 'funny' that a lot of (right-wing, mostly) Americans are worried about immigration from Latin America. I'd wish all immigration to Europe was from Latin America. Americans don't really know what's it like to have immigration that doesn't want to integrate and, in fact, wants to change their new country into what was back home for them.

This board won't forgive you if you're careless and mistaken about Democrats. It sometimes won't if you're inconveniently accurate, but that's a different point.

Noooo, you think?

It’s the old paradox…tolerating certain aspects of some cultures appears to require tolerating some very intolerant behaviours.

Examples might be those cases where “arranged marriages” can be close to “forced marriages”. (Yes, I know that’s not all arranged marriages.) Or cultures where women are seen as subservient…or LQBT people abhorred.

I mean, you're from the UK. I don't know where you live but if you're in London go to Hyde Park corner on a weekend - you'll see folks like Mohammed Hijab (who's been stoking hatred against Hindus in Leicester), Anjem Choudary (who's been released from jail for terror related offenses) and other 'famous scholars' openly railing against LGBTQ+ (saying things like "a gay and a paedophile are the same") and against your country, among other things. Police know all about this, there's always police there.

How many people think a major problem in this thread is too many conservatives defending Republicans?

I think that's literally just you!

I hate that his is happening from my community but there's some racism in Southern California coming from the Latinx community towards black people.

There's racism everywhere, in all colors and shapes. There's black on black racism, white on white racism, everything and then some. A couple of weeks ago, a British Bangladeshi Labour MP, Rupa Huq - who's had her fair share of anti-semitic accusations - made a speech at a Labour Party event where she called the UK Chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, "Superficially he is a black man... if you hear him on the Today Program, you wouldn't know he is black". She then doubled down on the comments and said some more nasty stuff, before eventually issuing a half baked apology. She's been kicked out of the Labour Party in the meantime.

[hyped78]

Oh, you have eyebrows just like Hitler did?

You know what that means.

What kind of a comment is this?

[Adam Allen]

He should be arrested and tried. The article isn't about people trying to make a vigilante mob, but trying to get the authorities, including the police and the local city council member, to do something.

The way some people are pushing against efforts to arrest him out of concern for his welfare is misguided politically, because this lack of response to violent and gross crime is not going to be politically popular, which is more likely to the elections of much stricter officials. It's misguided practically because it is delaying him getting the help he needs.

I don't personally believe that political concerns trump moral ones. And I am pretty sure the point of not starting a city-wide manhunt for this guy is because the police are not trusted to de-escalate; so if you really want to get him the help he needs, the council member is probably right.

The vibe seems to be discussing this guy as if he is a murderer who will kill again, so the police and city government are inactive, while a serial killer is just getting revved up. That might be what's going on, but I am not convinced.

On Aug. 3, Jessica Chrustic, 40, a professional beekeeper, was walking her dog in Prospect Park a little after 6 a.m. when she saw a man rifling through the garbage outside the Picnic House. She had seen the man before — tall, with dreadlocks wrapped in a turban, carrying a long staff and often muttering to himself or cursing — and she usually kept her distance. But this morning there was no room to avoid him.

According to Ms. Chrustic, he started yelling about immigrants taking over the park, then grabbed a bottle of what she later concluded was urine and sloshed it at her and her dog. She tried to run away, but Moose, her 80-pound golden retriever mix, was straining toward the man, trying to protect her.

Even from the story you're posting, sounds like the second lady was not aware of the confrontation until after it had begun? So, given the guy hasn't been found, authorities only have one story to go by.

You're not the slightest bit curious why it was impossible to avoid him this day, as she always had before? Or, as his entire attack in this scenario is completely unprovoked, you don't wonder how it is that, for all of these people who have seen him in the past, this is the first time there was any violence? I mean, you make it sound like he has been attacking people every day, when there is no proof of this.

Here's one: Does it occur to you that, from this description, if this guy was either just an amoral sociopath, or a person experiencing hallucinations to such a degree they are an immediate danger to all around them, that he probably could have just kept hitting the dog, could have likely hit the women, too. Why didn't that happen?

Note here, please, I am not saying that I know what happened. I wasn't there. However, I'm not ready to convict this guy already, just on her story. If this is a person with mental illness, and if he was afraid of a growling or barking dog, then his swinging his stick in defense is understandable. I mean, it's not even as if you have to have a mental illness, to be afraid of a barking dog.

Thing is, the police are almost certainly going to be the ones to find the guy, anyway. These civilians whipping up mob anger -- that seems super impractical, to me. What result are they really hoping for -- you know, besides the police finding the guy, which was already the only way it was likely to be resolved, anyway?

[Kirby101]

What kind of a comment is this?

Zauriel is of the opinion that Democrats are exactly the same as Republicans. And having it come out that a City Council member in L.A. said some racist things proves the whole Democratic Party is just as racist as the GOP.

Cap Europe was pointing out that both Zauriel and Hitler had eyebrows, so they must be just like him, there by pointing to the fallacy in his argument.

[Mister Mets]

I don't personally believe that political concerns trump moral ones. And I am pretty sure the point of not starting a city-wide manhunt for this guy is because the police are not trusted to de-escalate; so if you really want to get him the help he needs, the council member is probably right.

The vibe seems to be discussing this guy as if he is a murderer who will kill again, so the police and city government are inactive, while a serial killer is just getting revved up. That might be what's going on, but I am not convinced.



Even from the story you're posting, sounds like the second lady was not aware of the confrontation until after it had begun? So, given the guy hasn't been found, authorities only have one story to go by.

You're not the slightest bit curious why it was impossible to avoid him this day, as she always had before? Or, as his entire attack in this scenario is completely unprovoked, you don't wonder how it is that, for all of these people who have seen him in the past, this is the first time there was any violence? I mean, you make it sound like he has been attacking people every day, when there is no proof of this.

Here's one: Does it occur to you that, from this description, if this guy was either just an amoral sociopath, or a person experiencing hallucinations to such a degree they are an immediate danger to all around them, that he probably could have just kept hitting the dog, could have likely hit the women, too. Why didn't that happen?

Note here, please, I am not saying that I know what happened. I wasn't there. However, I'm not ready to convict this guy already, just on her story. If this is a person with mental illness, and if he was afraid of a growling or barking dog, then his swinging his stick in defense is understandable. I mean, it's not even as if you have to have a mental illness, to be afraid of a barking dog.

Thing is, the police are almost certainly going to be the ones to find the guy, anyway. These civilians whipping up mob anger -- that seems super impractical, to me. What result are they really hoping for -- you know, besides the police finding the guy, which was already the only way it was likely to be resolved, anyway?

In the article, I didn't get the sense that anyone wanted to start a vigilante mob. They wanted authorities to do more to catch the guy.

Ms. Chrustic posted a description of the encounter on the neighborhood social network Nextdoor, warning others about the man and asking them to report any sightings to the police. Her post elicited more than 280 comments in the coming weeks, mostly expressing sympathy.

She was especially frustrated that the man, who was well known to people in the park, had not been arrested. “You have a person who is walking around the park who is violent and needs to be removed,” she said. “He’s known by the community. It’s disheartening.”

To Ms. Chrustic and many on Nextdoor, the issue was simple: A man who killed a dog and attacked its owner was a risk to everyone. She asked people who saw the man to call 911 and to send her photographs so she could confirm that it was really him.

There do appear to have been earlier incidents with this man.

For Nicole Haddad, who stopped going to the park with her pitbull-vizsla mix, Kingsley, after he was the victim of a similar attack three years ago, Ms. Chrustic’s posts hit home. Since then, Ms. Haddad said, Kingsley has been fearful and sometimes aggressive and has needed expensive behavioral specialists and anti-anxiety medication.

“When I read Jessica’s post, I got really, really triggered,” she said. “I just knew the journey that Jessica was going to be in for, because it’s caused me emotional and financial duress. I reached out to her immediately.” The two women compared information and concluded that their dogs were attacked by the same man. To the people who focused more on social justice than removing a threat, Ms. Haddad said: “I tell those people to shut up. They don’t have a leg to stand on.

The other side is against police involvement.

But gradually, other voices emerged. A vocal minority asked why Park Slope residents, mostly white, were calling for the police to take down a man who appeared to be homeless and emotionally disturbed. Others called the man a “monster,” a “predator” or a “psychopath.” As on other social media platforms, the most ardent voices made the most noise.

Martin Lofsnes, 52, a dancer and choreographer who moved out of the neighborhood in 2020, came across the conversation while trying to sell some stuff and was appalled by the vitriol directed at an impoverished man, and by what he called “this vigilante attitude.”

He urged people on the thread to put their emotions aside and consider “400 yrs of systematic racism which has prevented black people from building generational wealth through homeownership resulting in the extreme disparity we see today.” Arresting the man, he wrote, would solve none of that.

With all the affluence in Park Slope, he posted, maybe critics should raise money to help the man, not throw him to the lethal jail system, from which he would most likely emerge more dangerous, or not emerge at all.

Both Ms. Chrustic and Mr. Nammack separately appealed to their representative on the City Council, Shahana Hanif, for help, but they came away feeling her staff members were more concerned with the safety of the man — whom they presumed to be homeless and mentally ill — than with the threat he might pose to others.

Mr. Nammack said he was told: “‘We don’t want the police involved in this.’” He said, “They didn’t seem concerned that there was a public safety threat with this man at large, and that he needs to be dealt with. The bigger concern was keeping this man out of Rikers, and let’s not do anything.”

The main hint of vigilantism was an effort to form a safety patrol group, mainly because of the inaction.

Kristian Nammack, 59, who works in sustainable financing, read the Moose posts on Nextdoor and grew frustrated that nothing seemed to be happening. So he decided to do something about it. He invited people on Nextdoor and Meetup to form a neighborhood watch group to “take our neighborhood back.” As an enticement, he created a logo and printed 10 T-shirts. “We may also get to wear cool berets,” his solicitation offered, nodding to the Guardian Angels, an anti-crime “safety patrol” prominent in the ’70s and ’80s.

Mr. Nammack’s name for the new group: Park Slope Panthers.

He did not see the backlash coming.

“In my mind it was getting people to provide some visibility of community members in the park, especially at hours when women feel vulnerable, like 6 to 9,” he said. “Not vigilantes, not with guns, not with the intention to tackle an attacker, but just to be another physical presence. I think just a presence deters crime.”

It got disbanded after some opposition.

As described in the news site Hell Gate and the newsletter Common Sense, things went awry almost from the start. A man calling himself Snow told the group, “We are super not into you guys having your meeting, or doing anything in the park,” according to Hell Gate. “The opposite of what we need right now is more cops in this park and more people who want to be helping the cops in this park, when people are already being, like, chased down by the cops.”

To the delight of people who enjoy making fun of Park Slope liberals, one of the disrupters, a woman calling herself Sky, said, “Crime is an abstract term that means nothing in a lot of ways,” according to Common Sense.

A few days after the meeting, someone spray-painted the sidewalk outside Mr. Nammack’s apartment: “Don’t Be a Cop, Kris.” It rattled him. “Even being gay, I don’t know that I’ve ever been the target of hate,” he said. “I felt that I was the target of hate.” He decided he did not have the time or energy to continue the group.

After the experience, his main action is trying to get elected officials to take appropriate action.

For now, he was urging people to sign a petition on Change.org, demanding that Mayor Eric Adams “take appropriate action to rectify this matter.” More than 600 people have signed the petition.

This isn't about vigilante justice as much as frustration that the authorities aren't doing enough, which is not helped by representatives of elected officials saying that cops shouldn't go after someone who killed a dog and threw urine at people.