All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[kidfresh512]

False election claims overwhelm local efforts to push back

ESTANCIA, N.M. (AP) — Republican county commissioners in this swath of ranching country in New Mexico’s high desert have tried everything they can think of to persuade voters their elections are secure.

They approved hand-counting of ballots from the primary election in their rural county, encouraged the public to observe security testing of ballot machines and tasked their county manager with overseeing those efforts to make sure they ran smoothly. None of that seems enough.

Here and elsewhere, Republicans as well as Democrats are paying a price for former President Donald Trump's relentless complaints and false claims about the 2020 election he lost.

The belief that voting machines are being manipulated to sway the outcome of races is being promoted by Trump and his allies, many of whom have been spreading conspiracy theories throughout the country for nearly two years.

Their messages have penetrated deeply into the Republican Party, despite no evidence of manipulation or widespread fraud in the 2020 presidential election. That finding has been supported by multiple reviews in battleground states, by judges who have rejected dozens of court cases, by Trump’s own Department of Justice and top officials in his administration.

The distrust erupted in Torrance County earlier this year, as commissioners were set to certify the results from the state’s June 7 primary. Torrance was among a handful of rural New Mexico counties that considered delaying certification as crowds gave voice to conspiracy theories surrounding voting equipment.

Brady Ness, a 37-year-old manager of a car dealership who grew up on a ranch in Estancia, said he does not trust Dominion Voting Systems machines that are used to tally paper ballots across New Mexico. The machines are a frequent target of conspiracy theories, and Ness hopes to see a transition to hand counting in future elections, though current state law mandates machine tallies.

In the you have to listen to what the other side is saying vein. This article is just sad. How deeply rooted and baked in all these conspiracies and constant election denial rallies, and support from right wing media. There is almost nothing you can do to convince these people. They dont believe the machines, they don't believe the recounts, nothing will satisfy them. Other than Trump winning or whatever then suddenly everything is legit.

But the comment about Dominion and the distrust now is EXACTLY why I don't see how Dominion can possibly lose those lawsuits. They HAVE been damaged reputationally. Its abundantly clear. The right wing media has pushed and fueled the lies. I would be completely shocked if they didnt get all their wins or at least huge settlements and apologies.

[CaptainEurope]

He's also still facing charges in New York over that whole 'Build the Wall' scam. Hopefully we see some movement on that soon.

That court date is 13 months away, sadly ��.

[numberthirty]

Well, one down...

https://abcnews.go.com/US/voter-frau...ry?id=91858299

Florida voter has election fraud charges touted by DeSantis dismissed

[Catlady in training]

Fair question.

I'm a Republican, so I do generally prefer the policies of Republicans to policies of unchecked Democrats. On inflation, the main thing Republicans in Congress would be able to do is to keep Democrats by making things worse, which occurs with increases in spending or regulations.

I think inflation is a temporary problem (temporary can still be a year or so more) caused by a mix of high spending, Covid-related supply chain hiccups and high energy/ grocery prices, partially due to the war in Ukraine. Efforts to alleviate temporary suffering could end up making things worse.

Thanks for the reply.

She isn’t afraid to call out the warmongering elitist cabal of permanent Washington and the Military Industrial Complex, and their propagandists in the mainstream media.

Then why would she join GOP?

You find Political Discussions in the most unexpected places these days

Will Prime Minister Contest Reflect Upcoming Doctor Who Regeneration?

Well, that is indeed a bizarre coincidence. But it would still mean that Boris would be there just for a short, limited period and would probably make things even more chaotic. So, I wouldn't rule it out.

To put it in more detail, she brought up some cases where that supposed result came about:

I can't even begin to imagine what the victim must be going through in such situation, so I won't deny that for some, probably a very small percentage of women, it can be a healing experience. Which is fine, since nobody ever suggested, as far as I know, that women MUST have abortions.

I wonder if this should be clarified more. People on the aggressively conservative end often say things that make it seem as if liberals want to dictate that every pregnant woman must have abortion, everyone has to now identify differently than straight and cis, probably even marry a person of the same gender and different race or ethnicity, change their diet to vegan, etc.

I would under normal circumstances assume that basic logic is enough and you don't always need to state the obvious, but with the amount of misinformation and fake news, with people often hearing only one source of information, maybe it is necessary to clarify things and state that yes, women who don't want to have abortion for whatever reason don't need to have them, people can still be straight and don't have to transition, etc.

[scourge]

They sent a subpoena to the orange criminal.

[Catlady in training]

Couple of things, one also applying to the quote below, didn't say that communism was the better way to go. Just that capitalism and the greed factor is why we don't care as much about updating infrastructure or making public places safe after knowing about the dangers of asbestos for decades.

Both can be bad, and I went out of my way to point out the bad under communism (again to address both quotes here). As far as success, depends on your definition. The USSR collapsed, but they also spent decades being undermined at every turn by the West. China is the world's second largest economy, and Cuba and Vietnam seem to be doing alright. At least compared to their neighbors.

It was a competition, maybe not always fair from either side, but I don't see how the West undermined USSR any more than the other way around, so it's not a factor in their success.

Some might say, "well China is only successful because they're exploited by big business in the capitalist Western world". True, because both are s##tty systems. Our greed has led to gutting our manufacturing base. If it wasn't communist China it would have been India, or Africa, or somewhere else with a large enough population able to be exploited (still may end up that way).

Are we really the success story when our wealth was born from the extraction of the wealth, resources, and dignity of people too weak to fight back across the world for centuries continuously and to this day? I guess. If Catlady thinks that desperate people going where the resources are is a sign of our success, I guess. Of a type.

But you only have to look at the other countries in our hemisphere and our treatment, resource extraction, and political interference to see what chance anyone has when they're not even left alone to try and establish themselves. Then we get mad when they come here.

It's hard to compare capitalism and communism in the abstract sphere where you can only compare the economics. Because there hasn't yet been a utopist communist country that wasn't also a dictatorship that was horrible to its own people. To me, it goes hand in hand with comparing democracy and dictatorship.
I measure success on where I would prefer to live and what options people have to change things more for their liking.

Basically, if you (the general you, not you specifically) dislike your democratic country so much, you can always leave and move to where the political system is more to your liking. People in a dictatorship are not so lucky.

First bolded: The economy isn't everything, but for most people it's the first thing. It's the thing to worry about first, putting food on your kid's table and having gas to get around and heat your home, and everything else. Without those things people will tend to care a lot less about other issues, and will be much more susceptible to bulls##t if the bulls##t promises them better times ahead. It is damned foolish to dismiss those concerns.

I never said it wasn't important. In the post you quote, I was reacting to Zauriel saying the usual, that Democrats and Republicans are equally bad because the're both corrupt. Even if that was the case (I am sure many Democrats are indeed corrupt, but my guess would be it's not as bad as Republicans - but I can see that for someone that's not a good argument), there are clear differences when it comes to their views on human rights, like the question of abortion, LGBT+ rights especially trans rights, you know what I mean. For anyone who claims to care about these issues, it would be dishonest to dismiss it because "they are both corrupt".

I am not talking about a question of human rights vs. economic safety because such argument wasn't made.

If it was a question of choosing one over the other, I'm not going to comment on how I would vote, since I've never been in such dire economic situation. But I doubt it is, because I doubt that Republicans would magically make the economic situation better for those in most need. Maybe Mets can explain how that would work (that is genuine comment, not a dig, just to be clear.)

Second bolded: To my points above, so is capitalism. They're just less transparent about it, and again are willing to exploit the cheap labor in communist countries if that helps the bottom line. They've just learned the lesson I addressed in my first comment, that if people feel secure they're less likely to have an uprising. It's also easier to distract people with entertainment when you're not concerned with censoring anything critical of the government/State and instead simply filter it out at the source as not being "marketable". Subtle, smarter, just as evil (but hey, you get cool stuff!).

Again, the level is way different, you can't just claim that capitalism is as bad, or if you want, please provide info on gulags that you have in the US, systematic imprisonment of political dissidents, etc. If you want to stay away from the human rights aspect, then the level of corruption and the fabrication and distortion of results in order to placate those in power.

Third bolded: And I would like to say I wouldn't have expected such a condescending answer from a person who disagrees with Republicans, but honestly it's exactly what I'd expect. It's also why when folks on the left ask the question, "Why aren't they listening to us?" I'd ask "Why aren't you listening to them? Why are you projecting the worst motivations on them? Why can't you recognize that people might disagree with you for legitimate reasons, and they're not voting Red out of confusion or racism or hatred of their fellow man but because they truly think Team Red has the best ideas or at least outcomes overall?"

Similar to two sections above, not what I was talking about. I wasn't talking in general, but about a specific thing.
Sure, there are many reasons that Latino/Hispanic voters vote for Republicans. Since I've never even been to the US and only talk to people living there online, I obviously have much less information about it than you.

I am talking abot the specific situation, that some of them vote for Republicans because they are reportedly afraid that Democrats would turn the country into communist dictatorship like in some Latin American countries, just because their economic policies are more left wing than those of Republicans (but still mostly centre-right, IMO).
That isn't me making stuff up, it has been mentioned here few times, I've seen it covered on either CNN or MSNBC.

And yes, I find it weird and think those who come from such situations themselves should recognize the difference. (I guess they probably are not citizens and don't vote, but can certainly influence their children and grandchildren.) But hey, it's not exclusive to them, I know people here who lived through socialism and now also call liberal progressive politicians who are firmly pro-west and pro-democracy "socialists", "marxists", "communists" and I am shocked by that too.

The answer to all of those questions is because we need to think we're always right, and that too often means we need to think anyone who disagrees with us is always wrong. Even better would be if they were stupid, or fearful, or easily confused and better still would be if they were inhuman monsters whose needs, motivations, and arguments could be dismissed out of hand. That's a comforting thought, and doesn't require much thinking beyond it. Keeps one safely in that smug little bubble.

Not sure what this is referring to.

[kidfresh512]

Biden's student loan relief halted for now by appeals court.

Dems should cut some last minute campaign ads on GOP going all out to deny student loans relief.

[Tami]

Youngkin, Gilbert Oppose Adding COVID Vaccines to State List

Virginia Republican elected leaders said this week they will oppose any legislative effort to add the COVID-19 vaccine to the state's list of required immunizations.

The announcement from GOP Gov. Glenn Youngkin and House Speaker Todd Gilbert came after the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, a panel of U.S. vaccine experts, said that COVID-19 shots should be added to lists of recommended vaccinations for kids and adults.

The panel’s decisions are almost always adopted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director and sent to doctors as part of the government’s advice on how to prevent disease. State and local officials also often look to the lists in making decisions about vaccination requirements for school attendance, but don’t always adopt every recommendation.

Virginia, for example, does not require the annual flu vaccine to attend school — even though it appears on the CDC’s schedule.

Virginia Department of Health spokesperson Maria Reppas said in an email to AP earlier in the week that there “is no direct, immediate impact on COVID-19 vaccine being added to the Immunization Schedule on school required vaccines in Virginia.”

[Tami]

Thatcher was Prime Minister for over 4000 days, Major & Cameron around 2000 each, May & Johnson just over 1000 each & Truss on around 50. Extrapolating this along an exponential trendline suggests that by mid-March next year we’ll have a new Tory Prime Minister every few seconds.

[Mister Mets]

I think that:
1 - Polls in recent years have underestimated GOP voting
2 - There seems to be slight momentum in favor of the GOP, according to the latest polls
3 - Five Thirty Eight's model, for example, accounts for the fact that in Midterms, as we get closer to election day, there is a slight shift in favor of the party that's out of power, so in this case the GOP
4 - But all polls in Nevada are showing a statistical tie and this is a state that Biden carried by +2.4%, Hillary also carried by 2.4% and Jacky Rosen won the Senate race in 2018 by +5.0%. So it's been a consistently Democratic leaning state in recent years

Obviously I don't have a crystal ball but Nevada seems as close as it can get, could go either way by a small margin. In a way, the GOP needs the Nevada Senate win more than the Democrats do, as the GOP need to flip seats - the Dems don't.

1. This is key. It can be the result of pollsters making a good faith effort but weighing some groups incorrectly (IE- underestimating the percent of white voters without college educations going to the polls.)
2. Yeah, the main reason campaigns use polls is to determine momentum rather than hoping that everyone's going to vote in November the way they think they will in August.
3. Even models weighed in one way can underestimate momentum for that side, although they may also fail to appreciate a shift to the other side. There's much speculation right now but a lot we don't know. It's possible that the backlash to Dobbs and various horrendous Republican candidates helps Democrats keep the House and pick up Senate seats.
4. There may be some unusual things about Nevada. Harry Reid's political machine is considered legendary, but he passed away. Biden carrying the state by 2.4% isn't enough if there's a 2.5% swing towards Republicans, which is certainly possible in midterms that seem to favor the GOP.

The GOP does need to flip a net seat. Right now, they hold 60 percent of seats up in 2022, so they need to do better than three-fifths in order to have a good Senate cycle (they would need to win 22 out of 35 senate races to gain one more seat.) They're considered to be underdogs in Pennsylvania, so a loss there and a win in Nevada doesn't change the current status quo. If they lose Wisconsin as well, they need to flip three seats to take the Senate. They may have a shot in Georgia, but it seems unlikely that they'll win there if they can't flip Nevada. In these elections, the close races often go the same way. So if Republicans pick up Colorado and New Hampshire, they likely already won Georgia, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. If Democrats pick up Florida, Iowa or Ohio, they likely already won Georgia, Nevada, Arizona, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

I have given it some thought (have you not?), but I believe you're simply bogging down the argument and attempting to put me on the defensive because you're not really taking the idea seriously. What I'd rather not do is waste my time supplying ideas while you amuse yourself by trying to poke holes and tie the argument up in knots. I'm not here to waste my time entertaining you.
On the flipside, I find it amusing you'd ask a Democrat for ideas on how to get your house in order.



Was it the consideration of the long term consequences of radical short-term changes that allowed Trump to take over your party in less than four years? I'm led to believe you only consider the consequences when it's a Democratic action. All evidence indicates radical changes involving your own party tend to be (willfully?) ignored, especially by moderates.

You suggested that Republicans try an approach, so the onus would be on you to explain how it would work, especially since you don't seem confident that this is the best way to help the party win more elections or achieve its policy goals.

If you've given it some thought, it seems you should be able to address the basic questions of who would form the group, how they'd get attention and how they'd persuade party leaders they speak for anyone. It's possible that I've read some stuff that makes me skeptical this will work, or that you've come across news items that would make me confident that it can happen. But the logistics legitimately don't make sense to me. Yet.

I don't think this is what you're doing, but it seems possible to have a trolling strategy where someone intentionally suggests something flawed and then blames others for failing to imagine it, when the failure of imagination can often be the result of an awareness of basic limitations. For example, I know that moderate Republicans, while important in swing elections, are a relatively small group, overrepresented in the media.

Plenty of inmates ended up suffering or dying of COVID anyway, since those things were a cesspool, so it's not like they didn't need/deserve the relief. People just like dehumanizing people in prisons for some reason.

The argument about spending wasn't that people deserve money because of all they've been through, even if that is generally how the public feels.

Yes, but it wasn't Boris who enabled the referendum in the first place, it was Cameron. If Cameron hadn't called for a referendum and hadn't resigned afterwards, where would we be now?

Cameron had a tendency to put controversial issues to a vote. There's no indication he supported them.

It gets to a question of democracy. When should elected officials limit the preferences of voters, and when should they allow voters to make big mistakes? I fully get that the UK has a different system, but there's certainly an argument for leaving some big decisions to the people.

[Malvolio]

To put it in more detail, she brought up some cases where that supposed result came about:

Even if that's true, do you really want to force every rape victim who's been impregnated to carry to term on the chance that a few of them may find some healing through it?

[Wolverine12]

Relax on the swear words please. I know politics can be heated but make your cases without the cussing.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Thatcher was Prime Minister for over 4000 days, Major & Cameron around 2000 each, May & Johnson just over 1000 each & Truss on around 50. Extrapolating this along an exponential trendline suggests that by mid-March next year we’ll have a new Tory Prime Minister every few seconds.

The cynic in me suspects Truss screwed up on purpose so she could get sacked early, now, she'll earn the U.S. equivalent of $130,000 a year as a retired Prime Minister. Not a bad return for just under two months worth of work.

[worstblogever]

While this guy wasn't running for office high enough to warrant a profile, it's still noteworthy enough for me to mention it for the hypocrisy...

A MAGA twit running for Maricopa County College Board, Randy Gene Kaufman, drew the attention of a local police officer by parking across three spaces with a sun-blocking shield up, and leaving his engine running. So the officer walks to the passenger window to confirm if there's someone inside, and the Republican candidate was masturbating while watching interracial porn on his cellphone. Worse, he was doing this only a few hundred feet away from a pre-school. After failing to talk his way out of being cited for a sex crime by mentioning he was a former corrections officer, has ended up being forced to drop out of the race.

This guy rails against the supposed evils of the left and goes and starts wanking next to a pre-school.

[worstblogever]

On this date in 2014, “Fanatical Republican Extremist of the Day” looked at former Oklahoma Congressional candidate Timothy Ray Murray, the challenger to Oklahoma Congressman Frank Lucas in 2014, who after only getting 5% of the vote in the primary race for that U.S. House seat, got online to claim that Lucas had actually been publicly executed while on a diplomatic visit to Ukraine in 2011, and theat he had been "replaced", somehow. Therefore, Murray wanted Lucas' votes ceded to him. Further questioning indicated that Murray believed the current Frank Lucas running around as an "automaton" created to keep up the ruse. This isn't the plot of a sci-fi movie, this isn’t a plotline from Westworld, and Murray is obviously in need of serious psychological analysis but has thankfully fallen off the face of the earth politically.



In 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, and in 2021, that we published our first two “Fanatical Republican Extremist of the Day” profiles of the U.S. House Representative from Montana’s At-Large Congressional District, Greg Gianforte, who after several big losses in trying to become the next Governor of Montana. having started Christian ministries that have bankrolled millions of dollars toward the construction of a the 20,000 square foot Dinosaur and Fossil Museum in Glendive, Montana, that asserts to its patrons that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, and there’s no way the skeletal remains of dinosaurs on display are millions of years old, as scientific carbon-dating technology would have you believe. No, the curators assure people passing through that the fossils are but 4,300 years old (which would mean dinosaurs roamed the Earth around the time of the pharoahs) and that there’s no proof of evolution, whatsoever. Okay, maybe trying to willfully spread ignorance of science when you’re motivated by your faith on that subject doesn’t seem like it would be the most harmful thing, even in this day and age… it’s not like Greg Gianforte’s deeply held faiths are motivating him into any stupid policy decisions? Well, actually… he and his wife apparently lobbied the city of Bozeman, Montana to try and pass a city ordinance based on Indiana’s “religious freedom” laws that made it legal for Christians businesses to discriminate against the LGBT community. Gianforte is apparently dedicated enough to opposing LGBT rights that he also bankrolled the legal defense of Colorado baker Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cakes, who wanted to refuse service to gay patrons (Phillips lost, of course), and further applauds Phillips for not opening his bakery on Halloween because “Christians should not promote Halloween”. If these bizarre policy calls based on his faith weren’t already troubling, there’s Greg Gianforte’s opinion on Social Security… we shouldn’t have it because he thinks “the concept of retirement is not biblical”, citing the fact that Noah built the Ark at the totally believable age of 600. Gianforte made a last ditch effort to beat Steve Bullock in the 2016 governor’s race by trying to gin up fears over Syrian refugees, and lying and claiming Bullock had been restricting gun rights (while he had actually EXPANDED gun rights in Montana as governor.) Gianforte got absolutely trounced by Bullock in their debate, showing little understanding of the law in many instances, and providing only tired and cliche Republican talking points devoid of facts. Gianforte, however, maintained support of Donald Trump even after he boasted about getting away with sexually assaulting women… which would pay off later.

After several unsuccessful Gianforte campaigns, when Congressman Ryan Zinke was picked to be a member of Donald Trump’s Cabinet of Horrors, opening up a spot in Congress in a special election race that wouldn’t you know it, Gianforte would run for. And even though Montana still leans extremely to the right, and the Democratic candidate, Rob Quist, had some sketchy details in his background, it was nip and tuck as the last few days to that special election in Montana, with Donald Trump endorsing Gianforte, because he tolerated Trump’s sexual assault in the build up to the previous election. And… then things got weird. Weird even for a guy who thinks Jesus was fending of T-Rexes. You see, on the eve of the election, Greg Gianforte lost his goddamned mind, picked up a reporter from the Guardian, Ben Jacobs , body-slammed him and screamed at him.

This is normally unacceptable behavior for a politician, and more fitting for how a heel WWE wrestler would resolve being confronted with questions they don’t like. Well, Gianforte was charged with assault, pleaded guilty to avoid jail time that would make him a rather ineffective Congressman, and then spent most of his few months in office dodging a court’s order that he still would need to take a mug shot. Spoiler Alert: He still had to get a mug shot.

While serving as a member of Congress and voting for virtually every GOP backed bill that came his way, on February 14th, 2018, Gianforte celebrated Valentine’s Day by blurting out as many conspiracy theories as he can in an interview with CNN’s Chris Cuomo to try to cast doubt on the Mueller investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, and the Trump campaign’s possible collusion with them. As one does when in a romantic mood.

Only a term and a half into his Congressional career, Greg Gianforte opted to take another crack at running for Governor of Montana in 2020, in spite of the possibility that Gianforte’s fanatical dumb ass committed insider trading while a member of the House, trying to profit off of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Which, considering he has that inside information, you’d think he would follow the recommendations of health experts and wear a mask and not attend large gatherings of people, like when he showed up at a local concert on October 3rd to lead the audience in the Pledge of Allegiance… and then be surprised when there was a Covid-19 spike traced back to the event. Regrettably, Gianforte won the race in 2020 and was sworn in as governor on January 4, 2021. A month into taking office, he continued his pro-virus Covid-19 stance, lifting Montana's statewide mask mandate and signing a bill giving liability protections to businesses and healthcare providers. In May 2021, he went even further, signing a bill into law that limited the ability of hospitals and other businesses to require that their staff be vaccinated against COVID-19, as well as prohibited businesses from requiring that customers be vaccinated in order to access facilities, becoming the only state at the time to do so. He’s also signed anti-immigrant legislation, open carry legislation, three anti-choice bills, and rounding it out, a transphobic bill to ban transgender athletes from girls sports in public schools, because why not bully trans teens while you’re at it?

But the real test of a governor is how well they serve the people of their state during a crisis. Do they rise to the occasion and help their constituents while they’re suffering, or do they fail in the face of the challenge? Well, when Montana faced what was regarded as once-in-a-century flooding that saw many residents displaced or trapped due to the damage… Glenn Giaforte was off on vacation in Italy, and for almost a week, his office hid his whereabouts from Montanans.

Who would have thought this rich ***hole’s own vacation would be more important to him than the lives of others? Answer to that should have been “everybody”.

Unless he’s impeached or has some sudden mishap to change things in a hurry, Greg Gianforte’s reign of terror still has three years left on it.