All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[mogwen]

Funny fact! In France, Redskins are antiracist skinheads often clashing with what we call boneheads (far-right ones).

[Ragged Maw]

The “Washington D.C. Flayers” sounds more up to date, since the act of peeling off someone’s skin isn’t uniquely stereotyped as a Native American thing. Medieval Europe loooooooved that ****.

[Joker]

Is he bothered by the hint of an objection to a team changing their name? Does he think it was the wrong framing? Is it both?

He hasn't communicated what he thought the problem was.

You know why the name needs to be changed. You're smarter than this. You're "asking questions" you already know the answer to, and you look like an ass when you do this. And you do this a lot. It's part of why people on here react to you the way they do.

It's not just your politics. It's playing dumber than you are so you can "just ask questions". You're, at absolute best, just playing devil's advocate.

Redskins is a pejorative term for Native Americans. It became one almost the second it was first uttered. Even if that was not the original intent.

Terms like "redskins" are used to separate the subject from the target. In the context of using "redskins" to refer to a Native American, no mention of a non Native Americans skin color will be used. Unless that person is also not white.

Stop acting like you don't understand this ****.

[mathew101281]

We wouldn't be so screwed up right now if it weren't for an idiot president encouraging the worst of us

That’s part of it, but you also need to take into account that people with the conspiracy mind set we’re going to gather in large groups anyway.

[Malvolio]

The “Washington D.C. Flayers” sounds more up to date, since the act of peeling off someone’s skin isn’t uniquely stereotyped as a Native American thing. Medieval Europe loooooooved that ****.

How about the Washington Geins? I'd use the name of the character from Silence of the Lambs, but there's already an NFL team named the Buffalo Bills.

[BeastieRunner]

On the heals of the OK ruling ....

Washington State Supreme Court Reverses Itself In Century-Old Case, Affirms Yakama Nation Treaty Rights

[Mister Mets]

So if you find nothing wrong with the Redskins, what if there was a team named the Washington Negros? Or maybe the San Francisco Chinamen? Getting it now?

I think you're responding to a point I haven't made. I will note that we can very easily find numerous examples of the terms negroes and chinamen used as pejoratives.

Here you go Mets, took me a minute of Googling to find it refers to scalped Native Americans. Please feel free to continue to question why the name is offensive.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...n-name-update/

Thanks for the link, although I didn't ask why someone would think the name was offensive.

You know why the name needs to be changed. You're smarter than this. You're "asking questions" you already know the answer to, and you look like an ass when you do this. And you do this a lot. It's part of why people on here react to you the way they do.

It's not just your politics. It's playing dumber than you are so you can "just ask questions". You're, at absolute best, just playing devil's advocate.

Redskins is a pejorative term for Native Americans. It became one almost the second it was first uttered. Even if that was not the original intent.

Terms like "redskins" are used to separate the subject from the target. In the context of using "redskins" to refer to a Native American, no mention of a non Native Americans skin color will be used. Unless that person is also not white.

Stop acting like you don't understand this ****.

You're responding to some questions I wasn't asking.

You also make some incorrect assumptions about my views.

My own views on the controversy are different than secretly believing the professional left was correct on the issue. Polls did show that large percentages of Native Americans weren't bothered by the name, so that largely settled the matter for me.

I do think the whole argument was mainly a waste of time and resources. Every minute reporters, politicians and activists spent convincing a sports team to change its name meant less time and resources on education, alternatives to fossil fuel, immigration policy, criminal justice reform, etc.

[JCAll]

You don't need to humor Mets on this one guys. This isn't something that needs a deep dive into, it's a word that can be looked up in the dictionary.

[Tami]

Couple accused of racist attack at Connecticut hotel arrested in N.Y.

A couple accused of assaulting a 59-year-old hotel worker in Mystic, Connecticut while allegedly yelling racial slurs after complaining about a lack of hot water in their room, was arrested early Monday in Brooklyn, New York.

Philip Sarner and Emily Orbay were extradited to Connecticut later Monday, where they face assault and other charges, Stonington police said in a statement.

Sarner, 39, and Orbay, 28, have no permanent addresses but are known to be based primarily in Nassau County on Long Island, police said.

They are accused of attacking Crystal Caldwell, a Black desk clerk, on June 26 at a Quality Inn, where she has worked for several years. Caldwell has said the couple confronted her after complaining about the water temperature in their room.

Caldwell and her attorney, M. John Strafaci, said the couple, who are white, attacked her twice and called her a monkey.

Hotel surveillance video shows Sarner and Orbay approach Caldwell while she is near an ice machine. Sarner punches her, shoves her to the ground and appears to kick her in the head while she is on the floor. The couple then walk off, while two of Caldwell's coworkers come to her aid.

[TheManInBlack]

Polls did show that large percentages of Native Americans weren't bothered by the name, so that largely settled the matter for me.

I remember how surprised I was when I visited several reservations in Wyoming in the early 2000's and spent time talking to the natives there. Every one of them had nothing but disdain for those white folks who they claimed had nothing better to do than to be offended on their behalf. They very clearly said they identify as 'Indians' and that there was nothing offensive about it. They seemed much more concerned about issues with the BIA at the time than being offended by names that they actively used for themselves. Now of course, these are obviously anecdotal examples so take them with a grain of salt, and I'm sure the landscape has changed in 15 years as the older thicker-skinned generations gave way to the perpetually-offended generation, but I found it eye-opening as a black man who has been taught his entire life that 'Indian' was a slur.

You don't need to humor Mets on this one guys. This isn't something that needs a deep dive into, it's a word that can be looked up in the dictionary.

The last time I used a dictionary definition as part of my argument against a liberal, I was laughed at and told that they are written by the oppressors and that they change all the time as a living language so definitions can't be used as the basis of an argument. (the word in question was 'racism')

[BeastieRunner]

I remember how surprised I was when I visited several reservations in Wyoming in the early 2000's and spent time talking to the natives there. Every one of them had nothing but disdain for those white folks who they claimed had nothing better to do than to be offended on their behalf. They very clearly said they identify as 'Indians' and that there was nothing offensive about it. They seemed much more concerned about issues with the BIA at the time than being offended by names that they actively used for themselves. Now of course, these are obviously anecdotal examples so take them with a grain of salt, and I'm sure the landscape has changed in 15 years as the older thicker-skinned generations gave way to the perpetually-offended generation, but I found it eye-opening as a black man who has been taught his entire life that 'Indian' was a slur.

Anecdotes are anecdotes, not data points.

That being said, "redskin" has been used interchangeably with the word "savage" historically.

Native Americans have had bigger fish to fry than worrying about white guilt over names of sports teams. In your personal anecdotes, you cited one. WaPo and Annenberg have run now 3 rather large polls targeting Native Americans, producing 90% were not bothered by the name each time in two separate decades. In the 2004 Annenberg and 2020 WaPo polls, between 90-97% cited bigger issues than mascots.

Here's a good article from a Native America, written earlier last year on the issue.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a9058881.html

And ultimately that's what this is about; white guilt. The name should've been gone decades ago. Native Americans have more important battles like the pipeline project and such to fight.

This is really about white people beginning some form of atonement. For what it's worth. It's not land rights or reparations, but maybe it's a start? The OK land rights case and the recent WA state are bigger deals, IMHO (both referenced earlier in the thread).

[The Cool Thatguy]

I remember how surprised I was when I visited several reservations in Wyoming in the early 2000's and spent time talking to the natives there. Every one of them had nothing but disdain for those white folks who they claimed had nothing better to do than to be offended on their behalf. They very clearly said they identify as 'Indians' and that there was nothing offensive about it. They seemed much more concerned about issues with the BIA at the time than being offended by names that they actively used for themselves. Now of course, these are obviously anecdotal examples so take them with a grain of salt, and I'm sure the landscape has changed in 15 years as the older thicker-skinned generations gave way to the perpetually-offended generation, but I found it eye-opening as a black man who has been taught his entire life that 'Indian' was a slur.



The last time I used a dictionary definition as part of my argument against a liberal, I was laughed at and told that they are written by the oppressors and that they change all the time as a living language so definitions can't be used as the basis of an argument. (the word in question was 'racism')

I imagine that Native Americans in general might be more offended by 'Redskins', were it not for all the many hurdles they every day (reservations on **** land, secret sterilizations that only ended in 1975, how its totally legal for white people to rape/abuse them on their own damn land), etc.

I live in the DC area, and I wish we could keep the name. But lets not pretend its not offensive. We don't have teams called 'Black Skins', or 'Yellow Skins', so its time to retire the Redskins.

[Spidey5640]

https://www.bariweiss.com/resignation-letter

Looks like all is not good inside the Liberal Bible

[Ragged Maw]

How about the Washington Geins? I'd use the name of the character from Silence of the Lambs, but there's already an NFL team named the Buffalo Bills.

How about the Washington Skinwalkers. This one sounds cool, but it might not fly in our current climate. I heard the Navajo jealously guard their lore of such entities from outsiders, so even the mere rough English translation of the original name could develop into a race relations issue that the team might not want on their plate.

[TheManInBlack]

its totally legal for white people to rape/abuse them on their own damn land), etc.

That sounds pretty awful. Citation?