All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Dalak]

That DeSantis is trying to stir up a fight against "wokeism" it's clear and I generally don't agree with him (although I do disagree with a lot of woke stuff going around - separate discussion).

I did all the UK Covid vaccines, I followed the strict Covid lockdowns religiously, wore masks, washed my hands, maintained social distance. I did my part, both to protect myself and the people around me. Whether it was correct to enforce Covid lockdowns - and I am talking from a UK standpoint here, as each country/ state did its own thing - in the way they were enforced, with the timelines they were enforced etc, or not, I think that's a big debate and the jury's out.

Regardless of whether DeSantis is being honest (he obviously isn't a very honest guy!!!), the specific point that he makes that there were Covid rules in place that were ignored/ disregarded/ not enforced for the sake of BLM protests in many places is correct. And I think it's fair to assume that authorities in places like NY and Seattle allowed BLM protests that violated their own Covid rules, but wouldn't have allowed other types of protests.

The police were working to break them up (And in many MANY cases did so with abuses) in NY and other liberal areas as well, so I strongly disagree with this. The debate you are wanting to have is not the one being had here by DeSantis and by treating it as if he has a point when he doesn't you are playing his game.

E: I mean seriously: If they didn't allow these other protests how would they have gone about ending them? Sending in the authorities and having the police end them of course. In that case I see little difference in the responses here, as none of these protests asked permission as far as I know to be 'allowed'.

[hyped78]

The police were working to break them up (And in many MANY cases did so with abuses) in NY and other liberal areas as well, so I strongly disagree with this. The debate you are wanting to have is not the one being had here by DeSantis and by treating it as if he has a point when he doesn't you are playing his game.

I'm not trying to have any debate. I just said that what Tendrin mentioned missed context in terms of what De Santis was saying. This is factual.

Regarding police trying to break up BLM demonstrations, there were places where they did that and places where they didn't. There were places where authorities allowed the BLM protests to go ahead and there were places where they didn't.

When I said "authorities", I didn't mean (just) the police (in fact, I was thinking more of elected officials than the police), as I mentioned De Blasio and Cuomo as an example of political decision makers who made a conscious decision to allow BLM protests - and even support them - in violation of the Covid lockdown rules that they themselves set.

[Dalak]

I'm not trying to have any debate. I just said that what Tendrin mentioned missed context in terms of what De Santis was saying. This is factual.

Regarding police trying to break up BLM demonstrations, there were places where they did that and places where they didn't (there were places where the police even peacefully joined the protesters). There were places where authorities allowed the BLM protests to go ahead and there were places where they didn't.

When I said "authorities", I didn't mean (just) the police, as I mentioned De Blasio and Cuomo as an example of political decision makers who made a conscious decision to allow BLM protests - and even support them - in violation of the Covid lockdown rules that they themselves set.

Their support did nothing to stop police from breaking up protests with much violence, so I don't really accept that these protests were allowed by authorities as when one says "Go on!" and another says "Stop" with a baton or tear gas the one saying things should stop is the one who matters.

Did anyone tell people to unmask as DeSantis said they did? If not he still has no valid point to the argument.

[hyped78]

Their support did nothing to stop police from breaking up protests with much violence, so I don't really accept that these protests were allowed by authorities as when one says "Go on!" and another says "Stop" with a baton or tear gas the one saying things should stop is the one who matters.

Did anyone tell people to unmask as DeSantis said they did? If not he still has no valid point to the argument.

Like I mentioned, I was mostly talking about elected officials, not about the police. And obviously the police didn't violently break up protests everywhere in the US, far from that - for obvious reasons, only the bad examples show up on the news.

Unmasking or not, in this case can be seen as mitigation - but it doesn't detract from the fact that these protests were authorized while in violation of Covid lockdown rules and curfews

[Jack Dracula]

The police were working to break them up (And in many MANY cases did so with abuses) in NY and other liberal areas as well, so I strongly disagree with this. The debate you are wanting to have is not the one being had here by DeSantis and by treating it as if he has a point when he doesn't you are playing his game.

E: I mean seriously: If they didn't allow these other protests how would they have gone about ending them? Sending in the authorities and having the police end them of course. In that case I see little difference in the responses here, as none of these protests asked permission as far as I know to be 'allowed'.

For further “context” I’ll add that authorities in several cities were also allowing anti-mask and lockdown protests.

[hyped78]

For further “context” I’ll add that authorities in several cities were also allowing anti-mask and lockdown protests.

If that's the case, it's also wrong - but that doesn't make the BLM protests in violation of lockdown rules "correct".

Do you have specific examples of what you're saying? Because I can't find anything for New York, for example, where De Blasio and Cuomo allowed anti-mask/vaxx protests

(not saying that you're wrong, at all; I'm just asking)

[hyped78]

E: I mean seriously: If they didn't allow these other protests how would they have gone about ending them? Sending in the authorities and having the police end them of course. In that case I see little difference in the responses here, as none of these protests asked permission as far as I know to be 'allowed'.

At least some BLM protests in NY had permits/ alignment with city officials, secured by advocacy groups.

[Dalak]

Like I mentioned, I was mostly talking about elected officials, not about the police. And obviously the police didn't violently break up protests everywhere in the US, far from that - for obvious reasons, only the bad examples show up on the news.

Unmasking or not, in this case can be seen as mitigation - but it doesn't detract from the fact that these protests were authorized while in violation of Covid lockdown rules and curfews

Police are Authorities just as much as Judges and elected officials, as when run from them you are "evading the authorities". Do you have more than a few instances of any of these protests that began peacefully and ended the same way, because just saying they don't make the news isn't the same as it being widespread enough to impact the statistics from a potential 99% to 95% of ones that were broken up by police.

The bottom line is these protests were not 'allowed' to happen, unlike the ones below which were.

For further “context” I’ll add that authorities in several cities were also allowing anti-mask and lockdown protests.

If that's the case, that's also wrong - but that doesn't make the BLM protests in violation of lockdown rules "correct", does it?

This is another aspect too, as not only woke protestors were out there. I doubt many of these were actually shut down by police if any, and that's not getting into the rabble rousers creating fake violence. I doubt that DeSantis thinks they were out doing wrong either.

[Jack Dracula]

If that's the case, it's also wrong - but that doesn't make the BLM protests in violation of lockdown rules "correct".

Do you have specific examples of what you're saying? Because I can't find anything for New York, for example, where De Blasio and Cuomo allowed anti-mask/vaxx protests

It makes the implications that the the Floyd protests were somehow allowed despite Covid restrictions because of “woke-ism” incorrect.

If you want to argue whether the Floyd protests were more morally or ethnically correct than anti-mask, anti-lockdown, or anti-vaccination protests I’d rather not because it’d be a ridiculous waste of time.

I see you’ve removed your request for proof so I won’t provide any. You must’ve found it yourself.

[Dalak]

At least some BLM protests in NY had permits/ alignment with city officials, secured by advocacy groups.

This is news to me, do you mind showing a link or something?

[Adam Allen]

I didn't say documentation of court proceedings is required. I said that would be one way in which things can come out. Interviews in the media with multiple people accusing one doctor of wrongdoing would also count as an example of one story showing a serious problem at the hospital, and my metric for whether she's reliable would be if in a few months, several stories have come out.

I don't know what's currently going on behind the scenes. Sometimes with a story it's better to let people investigate, and pay attention to it day by day.

I notice two things about the evidence you're saying you need, before you can know if Reed was telling the truth.

The first is that they are completely theoretical, describing events that have not happened and (as far as we know) may never happen. (As there have been no legal charges at all, nor I think even any specific doctor named by Reed, let alone accusations of the same doctor from other independent sources.)

The second, apparently you are only willing to consider evidence that supports her claims? Because while there haven't been any other patients or staff supporting her claims, there have been several disputing them. (And there's the small detail of Wash U being a "Hidden Ivy" and one of the most respected research universities in the country. To be disregarded, in face of a random person's unsupported accusations.)

If you actually need to wait until June before you might have any idea what is really happening in the clinic, the metric you're describing is that you'll believe accusations of unethical and illegal behavior for five months, with no supporting evidence whatsoever, while you actively ignore all disputing evidence ... and you're suggesting this is a reasonable and objective perspective on the story?

You are an interesting fellow, Mister Mets.

[Dalak]

It makes the implications that the the Floyd protests were somehow allowed despite Covid restrictions because of “woke-ism” incorrect.

If you want to argue whether the Floyd protests were more morally or ethnically correct than anti-mask, anti-lockdown, or anti-vaccination protests I’d rather not because it’d be a ridiculous waste of time.

I see you’ve removed your request for proof so I won’t provide any. You must’ve found it yourself.

The Wiki makes for interesting reading, showing that DeBlasio did attend one protest along with several other city bigwigs . . . after imposing the first citywide curfew since the Harlem riots of 1943 and then making it stricter. It also mentions how the city began to open up on June 8th, something someone like DeSantis should have been praising.

[Username taken]

A Florida professor fired for teaching racial justice.

https://us.yahoo.com/news/florida-un...112654710.html

[Dalak]

A Florida professor fired for teaching racial justice.

https://us.yahoo.com/news/florida-un...112654710.html

I wish there were examples of what the parent/school felt was indoctrination to illustrate exactly how much merit this case had.

[Tami]

The ICC has issued an arrest warrant for Putin for war crimes.