All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Mister Mets]

No, the argument was about what the narrative would be if such authoritarian and extrajudicial tactics were being used in countries with a less than stellar track record on human rights and the rule of law. You twisted it to make it some dichotomy about political ideologies, as that’s the only prism through which you can argue things.

So let’s get back on topic and stop diverting. What would people and the media be saying if these police activities were happening in:

Hong Kong?
Russia?
Venezuela?
Brazil?
Palestine?
Myanmar?
(Apartheid) South Africa?
Sudan?
The Philippines?
Xinjiang?

Would the narrative be that a fair and honest government was simply trying to restore peace and order? Or that it was brutally crushing dissent? That was the point of my supposition. This administration doesn’t like dissent and opposition and is using deplorable tactics to crush that.

I’m really disappointed in this whataboutism. You claim to be against “loaded questions” and bad faith arguments, but here we are. I always saw you as willing to engage fairly and decently on the issues, but I was wrong. I can see you are simply a partisan.

Which is fine. But don’t couch it in lawyer speak and gobbledegook and phrases like “There’s an argument to be made.” Say what you think. At least someone like PwrdOn doesn’t mask their views behind wishy-washy statements.

Aja was right. There really is no point engaging with you.

I couch things in lawyer speak because I'm not always certain about these things and often trying to work through difficult questions about tradeoffs and policy. If someone is not certain and pretending to be, it increases the chances that they are wrong, and we should all strive to be less wrong. For this reason, I typically object to criticism of wishywashy statements; it encourages people to be wrong.

And the question of Portland is a sensitive question about tradeoffs; what steps should the government be allowed to take to bring order? A wrinkle that hasn't been discussed is whether this is all playing into Trump's hands: people yell about Gestapo tactics and black baggings, the protests are renewed, and there's footage of riots in a majority-white liberal city within a blue state on the evening news.

With the comparison to other countries, one difference is that things do seem to be worse there, just in terms of the death rates.

I'll maintain that I didn't ask any loaded question, in that loaded question includes a potentially controversial assumption at its core. "Have you stopped beating your wife?" is a loaded question because to answer either way is to admit to spousal abuse. "Have you admitted that Trump is a great President?" would be another.

I do think in a discussion about the response to this (which your post asking how people would respond if this were happening in another country is a part of) it is relevant to consider the extent to which people are influenced by partisanship, and reacting to this strongly because of their priors.

[sammy_hansen]

I'll simply note that under Barack Obama's Democratic administration (which also coincided with Democratic majorities in the House and Senate for a period of time) I really can't remember when the government used extrajudicial and/or paramilitary tactics against American citizens when they were

right-wing protesters, demanding restrictions on abortion, the federal government to stay out of administration of land rights, or the passage of explicit religious liberty protections.

Nor, might I add, did the Democratic government of Michigan use extrajudicial and/or paramilitary tactics against militias who stormed the legislative building. I don't believe they even faced any charges.

If only people were "not always certain" about voter suppression.

[The no face guy]

In this particular instance?

I would say that might not be the near certainty that it usually is. Trump is doing an incredibly capable job of talking folks out of whatever reasons they may believe that they have to vote for Trump in the fall.

The only potential "From Out Of Left Field..." factor that I could see actually working in Trump's favor could be a workable vaccine by election time.

In this particular instance, Florida is extremely important. Playing around with the interactive map:

https://www.270towin.com/2016_Election/interactive_map

If we assume that Biden takes Michigan (I know you should never assume, but Trump won this traditional blue state by a razor thin margin) and wins Florida, than Biden has won!

However; if Biden loses Florida, he'll have to flip Michigan and two of either (Pennsylvania, Wisconsin or Ohio) to win. Of the three I think that Wisconsin and Ohio fair a better chance of staying red.

[Tendrin]

This is a really good twitter thread breaking down just how bad the Householder scandal is for the Ohio GOP.

https://twitter.com/fawfulfan/status...91684925345793

Last year, Ohio passed HB6, which has been called one of the worst energy bills of the 21st century.

It bailed out several failing coal and nuclear plants, wiped out renewable energy subsidies, and canceled a $4 billion program to help Ohioans make energy efficiency upgrades.

And incredibly, that energy bill might just be the beginning.

Federal prosecutors also think Householder solicited bribes from payday lenders and nursing homes in exchange for favorable legislation. The Ohio legislature's entire term looks tainted.

[worstblogever]

This is a really good twitter thread breaking down just how bad the Householder scandal is for the Ohio GOP.

https://twitter.com/fawfulfan/status...91684925345793

The GOP is allowing corporate interests to buy the laws they want?

THE HELL YOU SAY.

Instead, let's say the GOP can go to hell in November, and vote as such.

[sammy_hansen]

The GOP is allowing corporate interests to buy the laws they want?

THE HELL YOU SAY.

Instead, let's say the GOP can go to hell in November, and vote as such.

But first can you provide examples from the last 12 years that show Democrats haven’t let corporate interests buy laws? And make sure you have a wide range of resources.

[Tendrin]

The GOP is allowing corporate interests to buy the laws they want?

THE HELL YOU SAY.

Instead, let's say the GOP can go to hell in November, and vote as such.

100%% agreed.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Trump Mocked For Claiming He’s Done More For Black Americans Than Lincoln

One Twitter user agreed that the president has united Black voters like no other president but added that “it’s against him.” Damn straight! By the way, speaking of things of importance to African-Americans....

**********

GOP Sen. Ron Johnson Blocks Bill To Make Juneteenth A Federal Holiday

The Wisconsin lawmaker says it would just cost too much. Yo, Ron, I'm gonna interrupt you to call b.s. on that! Oh, WBEEEEEEEE...!

**********

Trump Has ‘Amazing’ New Boast About Passing His ‘Difficult’ Cognitive Test

Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV. Christ. On. A. Crutch.

====================

In coronavirus news:

White House Cafeterias Closed After Employee Tests Positive For Coronavirus

Two food premises on the White House complex are currently shut. Staff were told “there is no reason for panic or alarm.” Uh-huh! Suuuuuuuure!

**********

Texas Stores Bodies In Refrigerated Trucks While Setting COVID-19 Death Record

Texas set a one-day record for increases in COVID-19 deaths and hospitalizations in the state, reporting 197 deaths and 10,893 hospitalizations.

**********

Fox News Host Grills Kellyanne Conway For Urging Mask Wearing: ‘Why Now?’

“Why didn’t the White House have this message for all of us two months ago?” Martha MacCallum said as she interrupted Trump’s counselor. Why? Because Trump knows he's sinking in the polls, that's why!

[Gray Lensman]

Unable to link from my phone...

It seems Derek Chauvin isn't just George Floyd's killer, but is also a tax evader, as he is being charged with felony tax fraud for almost half a million dollars in unreported income. Guess he started off with comparatively smaller crimes before jumping to murder.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Unable to link from my phone...

It seems Derek Chauvin isn't just George Floyd's killer, but is also a tax evader, as he is being charged with felony tax fraud for almost half a million dollars in unreported income. Guess he started off with comparatively smaller crimes before jumping to murder.

I just heard about that too. I think I also heard that Chauvin's wife, who's said to be divorcing him, was also a tax cheat. Charming couple.

[Tendrin]

I just heard about that too. I think I also heard that Chauvin's wife, who's said to be divorcing him, was also a tax cheat. Charming couple.

I mean, I said at the time that the divorce was almost certainly an asset protection move.

Seems I was half-right. :P

It was an half-assed ass-protection move.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I mean, I said at the time that the divorce was almost certainly an asset protection move.

Seems I was half-right. :P

It was an half-assed ass-protection move.

Regardless of if Chauvin is sent to prison (and I pray he does, the riots that would take place if he's set free would make what happened in early June look like amateur night in Dixie), it stands to reason the family of George Floyd will sue the bejesus out of Chauvin (and probably the Minneapolis PD) for every last cent he has. No surprise his wife is abandoning ship so whatever wealth she has isn't taken away in the inevitable wrongful death lawsuit.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Regardless of if Chauvin is sent to prison (and I pray he does, the riots that would take place if he's set free would make what happened in early June look like amateur night in Dixie), it stands to reason the family of George Floyd will sue the bejesus out of Chauvin (and probably the Minneapolis PD) for every last cent he has. No surprise his wife is abandoning ship so whatever wealth she has isn't taken away in the inevitable wrongful death lawsuit.

I don't think Chauvin would be personally liable. Qualified Immunity and all that (crap).

[Tendrin]

According to the affidavit, the Householder Enterprise backed 15 candidates (including Householder) in the 2018 primaries and added six more candidates in the general election. Most of these candidates won their races, the affidavit said. All who won voted for Householder to become the speaker, and all but two voted for the FirstEnergy bailout.

Informed that some people had opted to help another representative’s bid for the speakership, Householder allegedly replied in a recorded conversation: “Yeah, we can fuck them over later.”

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/f...e-rocking-ohio

[Kirby101]

This is a really good twitter thread breaking down just how bad the Householder scandal is for the Ohio GOP.

https://twitter.com/fawfulfan/status...91684925345793

Will the Ohio Legislature undo the damage these bills have caused? Will they allow bills arrived at by bribery and corruption stand? And if they do, will the voters react?