All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Vakanai]

Just want to emphasize I'm not even asking to like, not support his obviously horrific policies, just to not pretend they aren't what they are. That's how bad things are now.

It's really bad when people refuse to admit that laws with the only goals of reducing LGBT people's visibility and presence in daily life and making life harder for gay and trans people are bigoted. If these are the only real goals, combined with obvious misinformation and conspiracy nonsense about how LGBT people are "indoctrinating the children" by the very law maker making these laws, what else can you call it but homophobic and transphobic and bigoted? And yet that's somehow up for debate with the majority on the right, even the so called moderates. That's not just bad, it's worrying in the extreme.

[SquirrelMan]

Here is another non-loaded question for Mets or any DeSantis supporter who may be lurking:

What would it take for you to believe that he is a racist? What would he have to say or do?

[Jack Dracula]

We know that the Proud Boys were the "tip of the spear" during the attack, and prior to Jan. 6th, were constantly talking with Roger Stone, who was meeting with Steve Bannon & Rudy Giuliani & Mark Meadows at the Willard Hotel, the Trump Command Center.

If there was someone who was in or around those conversations that puts the last puzzle piece in place that confirms what we already suspect... that Trump knew what was coming, and his people were planning it at his behest... Jack Smith is closing in on it.

Ideally, I think the best we could hope for would be a recorded phone conversation or voice message from Trump or someone claiming to be speaking directly for him. The latter probably even being deniable in court.
The whole thing is so unprecedented that I can’t see a judge laying down a sentence on a former President without undeniable evidence. Maybe two or three people claiming he gave an order and all using the same phrasing would be enough, but Idk.

[babyblob]

My follow up question to Mets is like Squirrelman's.

If you are unsure that Desantis is Homo/Transphobic at this point. What would it take to make up your mind on the matter?

And if you are unsure that he is and you are undecided on if he is wouldnt it be better to support the man you are sure is not?

[Panfoot]

I don't think you guys want it to ban-worthy to post misinformation. I've corrected others on DeSantis (as well as other political issues) multiple times.

In those cases, I tend to provide a link. Gender VS sex remains an important legal distinction.

You have not corrected anybody, you post fringe and discredited studies and vague non answers. I'm just gonna ask point blank: Do you think I should have less rights because I'm trans?

[Kirby101]

Ideally, I think the best we could hope for would be a recorded phone conversation or voice message from Trump or someone claiming to be speaking directly for him. The latter probably even being deniable in court.
The whole thing is so unprecedented that I can’t see a judge laying down a sentence on a former President without undeniable evidence. Maybe two or three people claiming he gave an order and all using the same phrasing would be enough, but Idk.

How would that change minds? There is a recording of him saying "Look at this classified document, which is still classified, which I should not be showing to you." and his cult still won't see he is guilty.

[numberthirty]

My follow up question to Mets is like Squirrelman's.

If you are unsure that Desantis is Homo/Transphobic at this point. What would it take to make up your mind on the matter?

And if you are unsure that he is and you are undecided on if he is wouldnt it be better to support the man you are sure is not?

Politely...

I feel like that's focusing on the wrong thing.

Let's say that someone could build the regulars in this thread a magical looking glass. With that looking glass, one could truly see the heart of the guy in question.

Once it is built, and folks can take a look?

It becomes clear that the guy is not a racist/transphobe/whatever...

Would his policies stop being hot garbage once folks could conclusively see that the guy not whatever they suspect that he is?

[Panfoot]

Politely...

I feel like that's focusing on the wrong thing.

Let's say that someone could build the regulars in this thread a magical looking glass. With that looking glass, one could truly see the heart of the guy in question.

Once it is built, and folks can take a look?

It becomes clear that the guy is not a racist/transphobe/whatever...

Would his policies stop being hot garbage once folks could conclusively see that the guy not whatever they suspect that he is?

Okay, let's say we have that magical device and see that DeSantis truly isn't bigoted...I think it's still a pretty big deal if he's willing to throw away his morals to please a base that's desires are purely bigoted. Seems like a pretty key characteristic that I would find someone being unworthy of being an elected official over.

[babyblob]

Politely...

I feel like that's focusing on the wrong thing.

Let's say that someone could build the regulars in this thread a magical looking glass. With that looking glass, one could truly see the heart of the guy in question.

Once it is built, and folks can take a look?

It becomes clear that the guy is not a racist/transphobe/whatever...

Would his policies stop being hot garbage once folks could conclusively see that the guy not whatever they suspect that he is?

I dont know which would be worse. Desantis be a Homo/Transphobe. or giving in to them at every chance and pretending to be just for votes.

[AnakinFlair]

New Jersey man commuted by Trump charged in new fraud scheme

I mean reading the details of this fraudster I can see why he would appeal to Trump to pardon.

Guess he didn't learn his lesson

No, he learned his lesson. He was counting on Trump getting re-elected to pardon him again.

For whatever it’s worth, I’ve heard it’s not just young girls and women who collect the dolls, surprisingly, men do too.

I've never collected Barbies. However, I do collect Hot Toys, which are essentially high-end collectible Barbies. Something my sister still likes to make fun of every time she sees my collection.

Meanwhile, Biden wore sneakers

https://www.rawstory.com/like-wearing-a-speedo-fox-news-freaks-out-over-biden-wearing-sneakers-in-public-instead-of-dress-shoes/

Just think, if he had worn sneakers with a tan suit, MTG would have had all she needed to impeach Biden.

[thwhtGuardian]

I don't think you guys want it to ban-worthy to post misinformation. I've corrected others on DeSantis (as well as other political issues) multiple times.

In those cases, I tend to provide a link. Gender VS sex remains an important legal distinction.

I think you guys exaggerate the hatemongering.

There are three main things I'm thinking about in terms of going too far in the cultural wars. One is when institutions with government support basically mandate that everyone accept the norms of upper middle class white liberals. There are sudden changes to rhetoric on policy suggestions, which are often done for show and/ or backfire (IE- requirements that dishwashers be more energy efficient means that they're less effective which means people spend more time and resources in the pre-washing phase.) Finally, there's the efforts to reward political allies who have made serious mistakes, which is exemplified by the student loan forgiveness argument.



You left out the section of the post in which I specifically gave examples.

What are those "norms of upper middle class white liberals"? And why are those "norms" worth opposing?

[numberthirty]

Okay, let's say we have that magical device and see that DeSantis truly isn't bigoted...I think it's still a pretty big deal if he's willing to throw away his morals to please a base that's desires are purely bigoted. Seems like a pretty key characteristic that I would find someone being unworthy of being an elected official over.

I dont know which would be worse. Desantis be a Homo/Transphobe. or giving in to them at every chance and pretending to be just for votes.

I don't even need what is in blue...

The guy's stated policies are enough for it to be a wrap.

[ed2962]

I dont know which would be worse. Desantis be a Homo/Transphobe. or giving in to them at every chance and pretending to be just for votes.

I actually believe this is probably the case. It's why he barely makes sense talking about culture war issues. He probably doesn't care all that much but he's trying to come up stuff he thinks the crowd wants to hear.

[babyblob]

The Right have Started their protect the Children talk when it comes to keeping their kids from seeing Barbie.

[Mister Mets]

You have not corrected anybody, you post fringe and discredited studies and vague non answers. I'm just gonna ask point blank: Do you think I should have less rights because I'm trans?

I posted links earlier on times I've corrected a few people here on DeSantis.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post6543498

To answer your question, I don't think you should have less rights because you're trans. You should have the same rights as your fellow Americans.

Here is another non-loaded question for Mets or any DeSantis supporter who may be lurking:

What would it take for you to believe that he is a racist? What would he have to say or do?

Either he would have to make an explicitly racist appeal, or the mask would have to slip (er- I'm not suggesting he has a mask but I admit the possibility is there, as would exist with most prominent individuals.)

The most damning plausible evidence would be recorded private conversations or some kind of emails.

A way to think about this is what evidence would you need that someone is lying about their religious faith (which is probably not a dealbreaker for many of you but is just an example of a politician hiding their beliefs), antisemitism or cheating on a spouse. We could figure that this applies to a good chunk of elected officeholders, but we don't know if it's true of a given officeholder.

My follow up question to Mets is like Squirrelman's.

If you are unsure that Desantis is Homo/Transphobic at this point. What would it take to make up your mind on the matter?

And if you are unsure that he is and you are undecided on if he is wouldnt it be better to support the man you are sure is not?

I don't think I was explicitly asked if he was homophobic.

To make up my mind, I'd need to be convinced that he thinks that being trans or gay is the equivalent of a mental disorder (or something on that level.)

If all things were even, I'd support a politician I am confident isn't homophobic or transphobic over one who is, but there are other factors.

What are those "norms of upper middle class white liberals"? And why are those "norms" worth opposing?

The norms are ever-shifting, so the prescriptivism constantly changes.

The problem within these institutions is the insistence that everyone accept the norms, so it's not that the norms have to be opposed, but that it's useful to have ideological diversity and to avoid problems like groupthink and group polarization. In addition, most things that are performative (done for show in an effort to appease criticism) aren't worth it.

Adhering to these norms can also alienate ordinary people who don't follow these controversies as much.