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  1. #7501

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    Quote Originally Posted by Striderblack01 View Post
    "Says the black pot that sits upon MAGA gear that they think no one can see plainly under it?"

    Perhaps you'd like to expand on that phrase?
    What is that, besides a deflection of actual valid criticism?

    Joe Biden has had a long, and sometimes spotty, career.
    We can't just accuse anyone who points that out as Trump-loving racist. I just don't see how that helps.
    I'd prefer silence over that childishness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I think the black pot thing is a reference to the idiom of a pot calling a kettle black, and not anything to do with race.
    Either that, or we're getting an admission that folks that are about MAGA gear are into Trump solely for the racism.

    Again, Striderblack seems to just be confirming the worst with every overreaction.
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  2. #7502
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Striderblack01 View Post
    It is.

    It is. As I acknowledged earlier, there is a lot of subjectivity to this too, which can make it very nebulous.
    And there's a lot of pressure and stakes too, which heightens emotions.

    I'm just afraid that we are needlessly shooting ourselves in the foot by acting so defensively.

    Thank you for conversing with me and for your patience.
    I recognize that I, myself, may have been short or flippant during the convo and I appreciate you remaining objective and respectful.
    No problem. Though I do think we should just put a moratorium on criticizing Biden until he is in the White House. He's not Bernie and he has been more a centrist, we know that, taking shots now only helps Trump. If people want to criticize him, that is their right, but it is also our right to ignore them.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  3. #7503
    Ninpuu - Shinobi Change! Striderblack01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by worstblogever View Post
    Either that, or we're getting an admission that folks that are about MAGA gear are into Trump solely for the racism.

    Again, Striderblack seems to just be confirming the worst with every overreaction.
    Actually, that was hyperbole on my part.

    The thrust of my post was about childishly lashing out at everyone criticizing Biden and calling them "Trump Supporters" instead of earnestly engaging with them or flat out ignoring them.

    But you totally knew that.
    You're just choosing to ignore it because it's way more fun to troll.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    No problem. Though I do think we should just put a moratorium on criticizing Biden until he is in the White House. He's not Bernie and he has been more a centrist, we know that, taking shots now only helps Trump. If people want to criticize him, that is their right, but it is also our right to ignore them.
    Ignoring people is totally acceptable.

    I would even say preferable.
    Especially if we are not inclined or prepared to engage fruitfully or meaningfully.

    I'm not 100% on the moratorium, only because I do see it as an opportunity to solidify a coalition.
    Right, some people are undecided, or they're disaffected, or they have gripes, and by voicing those concerns they present an opportunity to secure their support.
    Within reason, of course.

    But I completely understand your rationale.
    Last edited by Striderblack01; 08-10-2020 at 11:23 AM.
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  4. #7504
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    You're aware that many of us here aren't exactly pumped to be voting for Biden. We'll do so because we feel it's our responsibility in the face of another four years of Trump.
    That being said, you're unsolicited criticisms have no positive value in the situation and, in fact may cause more harm than good by possibly influencing other people to not vote Democrat.
    Not sure what your goal is by calling out his faults at this time. Either you're seeding the ground for 'I told you so's' over the next four years or you just want to complain.
    Either way, you're not helping so how about saving the negativity until after the election?
    But you have to admit, it is a bit frustrating because during the primary we were all told that despite Biden's many flaws and mixed track record, that we all had to just fall in line and nominate him because he was the most electable candidate and that it was more important to have a safe pick to guarantee that Trump is voted out rather than a more charismatic or ideologically aligned choice. But then come general election time, all of a sudden that electability apparently rests on a knife's edge and we need to silence all criticism of Biden because any whiff of dissent from within could torpedo this whole thing. Meanwhile his campaign seems to be content to simply do nothing, as he remains largely invisible and remains hesitant to nominate a running mate that could do a lot of campaigning on his behalf. The Thomas Dewey comparisons are impossible to ignore here, Biden can't just expect to let Trump self-destruct and win by default, he has to get out there and make his case at the very least.

  5. #7505
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    I really hope the Democrats sit back and let some Republicans take these orders to court. Because you know if Democrats do it, Trump will start screaming "SEE! DEMOCRATS DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU!"

  6. #7506
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    But you have to admit, it is a bit frustrating because during the primary we were all told that despite Biden's many flaws and mixed track record, that we all had to just fall in line and nominate him because he was the most electable candidate and that it was more important to have a safe pick to guarantee that Trump is voted out rather than a more charismatic or ideologically aligned choice. But then come general election time, all of a sudden that electability apparently rests on a knife's edge and we need to silence all criticism of Biden because any whiff of dissent from within could torpedo this whole thing. Meanwhile his campaign seems to be content to simply do nothing, as he remains largely invisible and remains hesitant to nominate a running mate that could do a lot of campaigning on his behalf. The Thomas Dewey comparisons are impossible to ignore here, Biden can't just expect to let Trump self-destruct and win by default, he has to get out there and make his case at the very least.
    13 points!
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  7. #7507
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    Companies Owned by This Billionaire Governor Received up to $24 Million in Bailout Loans

    Companies owned by West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice and his family received up to $24 million from one of the federal government’s key coronavirus economic relief programs, according to data made public Monday.

    At least six companies from Justice’s empire showed up on the list of Paycheck Protection Program aid recipients released by the Small Business Administration.

    The Greenbrier Hotel Corporation, Justice’s firm that owns and operates the iconic luxury resort, received a loan of between $5 million and $10 million.

    That made it one of only nine companies in West Virginia to receive a loan of that size. Treasury Department officials did not specify the exact amount of the loans, and made public only the identities of companies that received more than $150,000.
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  8. #7508
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    But you have to admit, it is a bit frustrating because during the primary we were all told that despite Biden's many flaws and mixed track record, that we all had to just fall in line and nominate him because he was the most electable candidate and that it was more important to have a safe pick to guarantee that Trump is voted out rather than a more charismatic or ideologically aligned choice. But then come general election time, all of a sudden that electability apparently rests on a knife's edge and we need to silence all criticism of Biden because any whiff of dissent from within could torpedo this whole thing. Meanwhile his campaign seems to be content to simply do nothing, as he remains largely invisible and remains hesitant to nominate a running mate that could do a lot of campaigning on his behalf. The Thomas Dewey comparisons are impossible to ignore here, Biden can't just expect to let Trump self-destruct and win by default, he has to get out there and make his case at the very least.
    Is anybody arguing that Joe should just sit back and do nothing??

    Saying that Democrats should not criticise him until after the Presidential election isn’t the same thing.

    Certainly after having seen how the Donald has operated in last few years I’d expect any sane Democrat to do anything they can to support Joe...certainly they should be explaining the odd gaffe away, refusing to criticise Joe, refusing to answer embarrassing questions, etc, etc.

    This is one thing both UK main political parties do pretty well...come election time nearly everybody pretends their leader is right about everything...the backstabbing only starts when election is lost.

    And if UK Conservatives and Labour both manage it well...it can’t be difficult, so shouldn’t be a problem for Democrats.

  9. #7509
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Well, I remember personally advocating to vote for Joe because he was so sure to win that he and we would not campaign at all, and he could pick a rabid imaginary unicorn as his running mate and it would not harm him. I can dig up the posts where I said that, I am sure. Right after I am done picking lint from my navel.
    "How does the Green Goblin have anything to do with Herpes?" - The Dying Detective

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  10. #7510
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBullion View Post
    13 points!
    People need to understand that the phrase "best chance to win" does not mean "100% guaranteed to win".
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  11. #7511
    Extraordinary Member PaulBullion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    People need to understand that the phrase "best chance to win" does not mean "100% guaranteed to win".
    I understand that he is disappointed. I made him think he could spend his summer playing "Pong" and now he has to go knock on doors.
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  12. #7512
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Is anybody arguing that Joe should just sit back and do nothing??

    Saying that Democrats should not criticise him until after the Presidential election isn’t the same thing.

    Certainly after having seen how the Donald has operated in last few years I’d expect any sane Democrat to do anything they can to support Joe...certainly they should be explaining the odd gaffe away, refusing to criticise Joe, refusing to answer embarrassing questions, etc, etc.

    This is one thing both UK main political parties do pretty well...come election time nearly everybody pretends their leader is right about everything...the backstabbing only starts when election is lost.

    And if UK Conservatives and Labour both manage it well...it can’t be difficult, so shouldn’t be a problem for Democrats.
    It's all well and good to close ranks around the candidate as the election approaches, but I just don't think the Biden campaign has a very effective strategy right now. Yes they are ahead by a lot in the polls right now, but a lot can happen between now and election day, and especially if the COVID situation starts to improve I can easily imagine the public forgetting entirely about how badly Trump handled it. The thing is, while it might look like a no brainer to try and play it safe and avoid controversy, I think that we are sort of at an important historical juncture with the BLM movement, and especially for a candidate that rode to the nomination on the back of the black primary vote and is likely to lean heavily on his presumably black female running mate, it's important to capitalize on that energy and let the voters know that the Democratic party does care about their grievances and is prepared to address them with meaningful legislation if voted into office. Emphasizing this issue would also help to smooth over any lingering doubts regarding his record on race and his association with racist southern senators.

  13. #7513
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    It's all well and good to close ranks around the candidate as the election approaches, but I just don't think the Biden campaign has a very effective strategy right now. Yes they are ahead by a lot in the polls right now, but a lot can happen between now and election day, and especially if the COVID situation starts to improve I can easily imagine the public forgetting entirely about how badly Trump handled it. The thing is, while it might look like a no brainer to try and play it safe and avoid controversy, I think that we are sort of at an important historical juncture with the BLM movement, and especially for a candidate that rode to the nomination on the back of the black primary vote and is likely to lean heavily on his presumably black female running mate, it's important to capitalize on that energy and let the voters know that the Democratic party does care about their grievances and is prepared to address them with meaningful legislation if voted into office. Emphasizing this issue would also help to smooth over any lingering doubts regarding his record on race and his association with racist southern senators.
    I can certainly empathise.

    And Iím going to admit that I thought at last election that all Hilary needed to do was play it safe...and we all know how that worked out....

  14. #7514
    Astonishing Member PwrdOn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    I can certainly empathise.

    And I’m going to admit that I thought at last election that all Hilary needed to do was play it safe...and we all know how that worked out....
    Yeah but even Hillary had a pretty straightforward pitch - she was going to be the first woman president, and by voting for her you'd be part of making history too. So even if her policy positions were fairly moderate, she could point to that as an argument that she represented a revolutionary agenda just by running.

  15. #7515
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChadH View Post
    You're aware that many of us here aren't exactly pumped to be voting for Biden. We'll do so because we feel it's our responsibility in the face of another four years of Trump.
    That being said, you're unsolicited criticisms have no positive value in the situation and, in fact may cause more harm than good by possibly influencing other people to not vote Democrat.
    Not sure what your goal is by calling out his faults at this time. Either you're seeding the ground for 'I told you so's' over the next four years or you just want to complain.
    Either way, you're not helping so how about saving the negativity until after the election?
    Or...

    It's past time that unions had to quit hearing "Hey, We Got You Next Time Around..."

    Actually that simple.

    If someone points out that Biden should be seriously considering a female/minority running mate? No one second guesses it. Because it is way Hell past time that it happens.

    You ask for Unions just not to get the legs kicked out from under them one more time by Democrats?

    Everybody starts looking around for what you must actually be talking about.

    Because for anyone who has been paying even ten seconds worth of attention to what has actually been going on?

    They know that this is "After The Election..."

    The election where Unions just got told "Hey, You Oughta Just Be Thankful That You Ain't Completely Screwed..." when it came to not getting Card Check done.

    So, yeah. If you wanna just keep trying to change the tune while unions are getting the short end of the stick again? That's totally your call to make.

    That said, don't expect folks not to point out that you are doing just that. Which is getting to "Completely Unacceptable..."

    If you want to just stay mum about stuff that shouldn't even be remotely controversial? Whatever. Just save the trying to paint folks who do as some sort of static starters.

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