All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[GindyPosts]

This and much of what you went on to say is actually what "defund the police" means. It doesn't mean fewer cops working with less equipment.

There is a need for cops. But they shouldn't be relied on for every situation that exists. Police officers are so disproportionately trained to defend themselves that they tackle every problem like it's a nail due to the fact they were only given a hammer during training.

If we mitigate the roots of society's problems that are responsible for the crimes that are responsible for most police calls (poverty, drug abuse, unemployment, lack of education), then we can reserve the police for the truly wretched members of society that actively go out of their way to cause harm, as opposed to every single instance of someone likely going outside the legal means of making income to survive. It would also allow us to change the format of who we have as officers, since they will know they are only needed for severe cases, as lower level cases are handled by people trained to deal with lower level crises. It'd also discourage potential gypsy cops from entering the service since they know they actually will have to be heroes instead of lucking into an opportunity.

[babyblob]

There is a need for cops. But they shouldn't be relied on for every situation that exists. Police officers are so disproportionately trained to defend themselves that they tackle every problem like it's a nail due to the fact they were only given a hammer during training.

If we mitigate the roots of society's problems that are responsible for the crimes that are responsible for most police calls (poverty, drug abuse, unemployment, lack of education), then we can reserve the police for the truly wretched members of society that actively go out of their way to cause harm, as opposed to every single instance of someone likely going outside the legal means of making income to survive. It would also allow us to change the format of who we have as officers, since they will know they are only needed for severe cases, as lower level cases are handled by people trained to deal with lower level crises. It'd also discourage potential gypsy cops from entering the service since they know they actually will have to be heroes instead of lucking into an opportunity.

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What do you consider lower level cases and crisis? Who should handle them?

[numberthirty]

Who cares. It was made simple and specific with "Black Lives Matter" and Republicans and racists still wilfuly misinterpreted it. You could have Black communities asking for More Police, More Arrests and the white folk would still spin it.

Two rich white people pointed machine guns at peaceful protesters and Republicans call them heroes!

Anyone who is actually even remotely serious about things moving in the right direction when it comes to policing.

[The no face guy]

I think, if possible you need to demilitarize your police rather than defund them....I hesitate to say this because it is not my place to lecture another country....but your militarized police seems to be a consequence of your 2nd amendment rights, in that anyone at anytime could be potentially packing a firearm.

Cops in Canada don't generally have to worry about approaching a car and worrying about a fire arm. I hope requests to put your hand on the dash, or approaching a car with a firearm is not standard practice down there.

[BeastieRunner]

We have a local PD with a mine-resistant vehicle.

Why is that needed in the USA?

[GindyPosts]

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What do you consider lower level cases and crisis? Who should handle them?

Domestic issues that involve noise issues, neighborly spats, low level drug offenses, vandalism... anything that the so-called "broken window theory" believes requires we lock them away before they become arsonists and mass murderers should be transitioned over to groups that can be trained to handle these types of situations. Interventions, community outreach programs, even legal research groups would be of great benefit. To put a long and short into it; if it involves an officer showing up and they don't have to use their weapons, certainly someone else who's better qualified at understanding these situations should tackle these problems, and only if they don't resolve appropriately do they progress into civil disputes where courts should get involved.

However, if we have, say, domestic disturbances that get physical or violent, however, then that's when we don't play peacemaker and need to bring in law enforcement posthaste.

I'm not the one who's writing all this; this is just me spit-balling as to what I would recommend.

[babyblob]

We have a local PD with a mine-resistant vehicle.

Why is that needed in the USA?

You will be glad to have that when The Chinese and North Koreans come knocking at our door. Its only a matter of time according to Trump. And my Trump loving Aunt and I talked about that today. Kind of sad how some people really worry that is a thing.

[Joker]

I think, if possible you need to demilitarize your police rather than defund them....

That’s a large part of what it’s about. They do not need surplus military gear.

I still dislike that the slogan became “defund the police” because it’s so easy to spin into getting rid of the police. But police budgets are insane, while other much needed resources are struggling. Resources that would actually cut down on a need for police by providing help and assistance to people in need, so they aren’t in a position that the police end up being called out to deal with it.

[Striderblack01]

Democrats are also indirectly causing the increasing murder and death of black people Democrats also push false narratives about police that the police are out to kill black people and are racist against them for disproportionately arresting them and then show out of context stats to prove this by saying that X% of blacks are in the prison system despite only being 13% of the population. What they don't say and scream racism at anyone who does is that the prison population is both a result of their own policies (the crime bill of the democrats in the 90's) and the disproportionate amount of crime committed by black males in this country. Black males make up 6.5% of the population yet year after year commit between 50 and 60% of the murders and robberies. So of course they are going to prison at a higher rate because they are committing the offenses most likely to land you in prison at a much higher rate. Here are the 2018 crime states by the FBI. Well over 90% of murders are by males so I'm using males here by default. Black males committed 53% of the murders and 54% of the robberies. They also committed disproportionately higher rates of other major crimes as well. "Oh but thats only because the police are racist and only arrest black people" is a common refute. Except that its statistically proven year after year year most crimes and especially murder are done within the same race, blacks kill blacks and whites kill whites etc. The race % of victims of murders closely matches the % of race of the murderers themselves and you can't fake the race of the victims. What this has caused is all the blowback we are seeing this year over police incidents which has the effect of causing police to back off and then you see skyrocketing murder rates in the black communities. Shootings and murders of black people by other black people have as much as doubled in places like Chicago, St Louis, Baltimore, New York, etc since George Floyd and the protests began. And this is 100% IMO caused by the false narrative that democrats push that the police are out there murdering black men every day just because they are black. Here is the FBI crime chart for 2018 since many refuse to believe stats on race and crime unless they see it: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-43

As to disparate sentencing, yep it happens. Its going to happen when you give judges discretion and every judge is going to sentence differently. The opposite of that is to set standards for sentencing like mandatory minimums . . . except how well did that work out? However I would also argue that its not nearly as racist as some like to claim because people like to look at things without context, much like the left doesn't look at actual crime stats and who is committing them before proclaiming racism.

You seem to be aware of systemic racism, but also seem content in downplaying or explaining away its current effects and taking numbers at face value.

You also appear to be making that case that because most murders are intraracial, system racism doesn't play a factor in higher rates of profiling, arrest, and harsher sentencing of black men.
Can you expand a little on that, because I'm not sure I follow.

If black people are profiled more, that leads to more arrests.
If black people are routinely excluded from juries, that leads to less impartial juries.
If black people experience disparate sentencing, that leads to harsher sentences.

And if all of those things are true, then how does systemic racism not play a significant factor in the higher crime statistics for black people?

And that's just race.
We haven't even mentioned age, geography, or even wrongful convictions (which, by this estimate, maybe at 11.6%)

Wait you mean like the street crime unit in New York city whose job it was to go out and prevent street crime before it happened. By getting guns off the street and arresting gangbangers on low level offenses to get them off the street? The street crime unit who was disbanded after George Floyd and the defund the police push. And now the shooting and murder rate in New York is skyrocketing. This date is a couple of weeks old (August 9th) but it in 2020 New York has had 883 shootings with 1017 victims. In 2019 at the same time they had 446 shootings with 551 victims. Shootings and murders skyrocketed after the street crime unit was disbanded.

https://abc7ny.com/nyc-has-1000th-sh...surge/6363550/

You appear to be jumping to conclusions on the 2020 crime statistics.

You are excluding some likely contributing factors to those spikes in crime - like the COVID pandemic (which led to early release from prison of many inmates as well as massive job loss) and the civil unrest in those cities (precipitated by the very actions of the police). Statistics take time and lots of study.

Overall, I think it's a little too soon to draw any kind of conclusion of the police reform efforts and their effects on crime this year.

I agree with you 100% on the part I bolded. Poverty is the largest driver of crime and you can look at the crime map of any city and then look at the poverty map and you'll see tremendous overlap. And obviously minorities suffer in greater poverty largely due to systemic racism going back centuries. However, defunding the police doesn't solve this. All defunding the police will do is cause what we are seeing in the bigger cities right now to grow even more - vastly increased shootings, vastly increased crime, etc.

You seem to be conflating the reduction of crime with police reform.

Though they are absolutely related, they're not the same.
Everyone wants crime to be reduced. However, there is also a real problem around how police behave, their application of violence, their increasing militarization, the training that they receive, their screening of applicants (in relation to their active participation of hate groups), and the seeming lack of consequences for misconduct.

Police Reform should look to solve those issues and restore public trust.
And, preferably, keep or improve crime reduction efforts.

[The no face guy]

That’s a large part of what it’s about. They do not need surplus military gear.

I still dislike that the slogan became “defund the police” because it’s so easy to spin into getting rid of the police. But police budgets are insane, while other much needed resources are struggling. Resources that would actually cut down on a need for police by providing help and assistance to people in need, so they aren’t in a position that the police end up being called out to deal with it.

Agreed, again I think 2nd amendment rights complicates things in your country, as being a police officer is more dangerous in the United States than Canada. I read an article whereby 1.8 police officers die by homicide in Canada each year in comparison to 1 per week in the United States, though you have to take population ratio's into account.

I don't think you'll ever be able to change that, but you can change the culture of police training

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...hooting-people



As for those talking about armoured mine resistant vehicles, we've bought them to. I imagine they're used for riot control and dispersment, or to ram down armed suspects hiding behind a barricade. Protection from projectiles during riots. (Firearms, molotov cocktails) They've been known to be outfitted with water cannons.

[JCAll]

You will be glad to have that when The Chinese and North Koreans come knocking at our door. Its only a matter of time according to Trump. And my Trump loving Aunt and I talked about that today. Kind of sad how some people really worry that is a thing.

Had a neighbor in 2016 that swore he was going to fight to the death when Hillary Clinton led a Russian invasion into Missouri.
I'm still not sure how people can live within 200 feet and still be on different planets.

[Starter Set]

Had a neighbor in 2016 that swore he was going to fight to the death when Hillary Clinton led a Russian invasion into Missouri.
I'm still not sure how people can live within 200 feet and still be on different planets.

Pretty funny considering Trump's history with mother Russia.

[PaulBullion]

That's the thing though...

That you have finally managed to get a clue?

Said realization does not somehow magically undue all of the damage that your stupidity was directly responsible for.

Undue how?

like, Bernie Sanders unduly voted for the crime bill (while serving lip service to have it both ways) and campaigned on that vote for years?

[PaulBullion]

I agree. Biden should have to work with someone dedicated to providing social justice and concerned about the welfare of all. He should have to work under someone who knows the ugly underbelly of our country so he can be a better leader.

That ship sailed when Biden refused to serve as Vice President under a black man, sadly.

[Tami]

Multiple people shot in Kenosha during protests over Jacob Blake’s shooting

KENOSHA, Wis. — Gunfire rang out from a crowd of protesters early Wednesday morning in Kenosha, Wis., on the third night of unrest over the police shooting of Jacob Blake Jr. At least three people were injured. It is unclear who fired the shots, and police and hospital officials have not yet confirmed the severity of the injuries.

Shots were first fired after midnight, as a group of protesters on Sheridan Road faced off with police in armored trucks. A young White man carrying an AR-15-style rifle began running north on Sheridan, away from the group. Video shows the armed man fall to the ground, and then fire multiple rounds into the crowd. Two more people fell to the ground, one shot in the arm. Another graphic video shows one man with blood running down the back of his neck and bystanders shouting that he’d been shot in the head.

One white man with a military weapon firing on protestors. This is getting worse and worse. More info on Twitter Thread.