All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Malvolio]

Well, false equivalency for one thing



Nazism is about killing very specific groups, the inferior races and such. When one says that they are a Nazi, it means that they have committed to their heart the murder of various ethnic groups. There is no middle ground to be found with their ideals, no 'good people on both sides'.

And while communism certainly has a high body count, its stated aim is equality. And socialism less so the body count, what with France and the UK are not charnel houses, for example.

People may say that Oskar Schindler was a Nazi, and he was officially registered as one. But that was to keep himself and his family safe. Many Germans did the same out of fear. But once the war was over, if you still identified as a Nazi, that would make you the villain, no ifs ands or buts about it. There are communists today who promote peace. There are socialists today who promote peace. There are no Nazis who promote peace. I mean, unless we're talking about the song from the Producers: "A little piece of Belgium, a little piece of France..."

[babyblob]

I read on here people talking about cancel culture. I hear a lot of people talking about it. I do not understand why it is a bad thing? I dont see it as firing someone who disagrees with you. It is about taking down confederate statues. We would not allow a statue of a nazi general in Germany so why are confederate generals okay? A man being taken of the all for using the word Fag on a broadcast is not cancel culture. It is human decency.

[Mister Mets]

Richard. Spencer. Is. A. Nazi.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2019/...milo-alt-right

What specifically have I said defending Richard Spencer?

My concern was never about him, but about the precedent it sets to endorse violence against him.

I have recently pointed out Rittenhouse has been supported by GOP Congressman Paul Gosar. InformationGeek just posted that Alabama GOP Congressional candidate Barry Moore is defending him?

You're simultaneously defending a Nazi being punched in the face, and willfully turning a blind eye to a white nationalist who just shot and murdered people as your party endorses it, without any hesitation that there's hypocrisy or a double standard there.

The post I was responding to used a particular phrase. I googled it, and determined that it was from a retired baseball player.

I am unaware of Kyle Rittenhouse being a white nationalist. An NPR article suggests that such a label is premature.

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/28/90713...ect-is-labeled

Extremism researchers say they've watched with alarm as misinformation, sloppy labeling and political divisions shape the public narrative about Rittenhouse. Part of the problem, they say, is that he appears to fall into a hard-to-define category of gunman that's increasingly showing up at protests: the self-styled vigilante.

Mark Pitcavage, senior research fellow at the Anti-Defamation League's Center on Extremism, calls the volunteer gunmen "armed vigilante groups," though he stresses that "group" is a bit of a misnomer because they're often pop-up, local factions without the organization of, say, established militias.

"They're sort of like guys in the neighborhood," Pitcavage said. "And they tend to be culturally conservative. They tend to be right wing. They're not typically extremists, although there's nothing that could exclude some extremists being among them."

Rittenhouse is emerging as the poster boy for that phenomenon. Outraged by the shootings, activists rushed to pin him with various far-right ideologies. Hundreds, probably thousands, of social media posts describe him as a militia member or a white supremacist. Some have referred to him, without evidence, as part of the misogynistic incel movement.

Reporters and researchers across the country are digging into Rittenhouse's background and, so far, they've come up with no clear-cut evidence of ties to antigovernment militias or to the "boogaloo boys," armed men in Hawaiian shirts calling for violent revolution.

Social media accounts linked to Rittenhouse portrayed a police booster aligned with "Back the Blue," pro-cop activism widely seen as a racist response to Black Lives Matter. But as of Friday there was no indication of Rittenhouse's membership or support of groups categorized as traditional hate or extremist groups.

The kind of violence witnessed in Kenosha is straining Americans' vocabulary for what they're seeing. The murkiness of protests – and the growing presence of armed activists on the left – make it difficult to distinguish who's who among gun-toting people at the scene. Do we call them vigilantes? Counterprotesters? Militias? Violent extremists?

"I think the confusion understandably comes from different groups having similar appearances and some shared goals, especially in a moment like this," said Amy Cooter, a sociologist at Vanderbilt University who's written extensively about militias and related "Patriot Movement" groups.

Take, for example, the widespread linking of Rittenhouse to the far-right militia movement, based on rather slim evidence. Rittenhouse had been seen mingling with apparent members of a group calling itself the Kenosha Guard. Researchers said it's likely an ad hoc formation in response to the protests that erupted this week after police shot Jacob Blake, a Black man, seven times in the back as his children watched.

As in other cities, armed volunteers began organizing in Kenosha, ostensibly to protect local businesses from what they see as out-of-control leftist mobs.

"Any patriots willing to take up arms and defend our city tonight from the evil thugs?" the Kenosha Guard posted Tuesday on Facebook. "No doubt they are currently planning on the next part of the city to burn tonight."

Pitcavage said Facebook took down the Kenosha Guard's page before he and other researchers could study its members or mission in depth. Pitcavage said there is no confirmation that Rittenhouse answered the group's call for volunteers or had ties to that or any other group at the scene.

Facebook has said it has not found a connection between the Kenosha Guard and the shooting, but removed the group because it violated newly introduced policies aimed at militias and other groups tied to violence.

Even the group's "militia" description appears to come from a single mention from an organizer.

"The word 'militia' has several different meanings," Pitcavage said. "It can mean a group within the specific militia movement, but it can also be more generically used for any armed paramilitary group. And some people, although they shouldn't, use it even more loosely for any armed group."

This collapsing of terms is frustrating to extremism analysts who are fastidious about the categories and context of the incidents they study. J.J. MacNab, a researcher who regularly tweets about militia and vigilante cases, was conspicuously silent as debate over Rittenhouse snowballed on social media, hardening into two camps: Those who see a racist domestic terrorist versus those who justify the killings as self-defense.

Perhaps new information has come out in the last few hours shedding further light on this.

It's an ongoing investigation, so I don't think elected officials or major media figures should be supporting him. But if they are, there's no reason to think they're doing it because they expect him to be a white nationalist. They're not primed the situation the way you are.

[The no face guy]

Your example is bad. I already said why.

Not wanting people dressed as nazis at a college reunion is not 'cancel culture'.

Too late. I'm already a raging leftist.

I think my links are perfect examples of cancel culture because it shows how the far left is totally out to lunch...there is a lot more from where this came from.

If you want to ban the confederate flag, I think that is fair and objective because it's a symbol connected to real white supremacy, that is not cancel culture, that is rationality.

If you want to ban old Star Wars films or stop people from wearing Stormtrooper outfits on Halloween because it's a symbol of white supremacy, than your a fruitloop, that is cancel culture. (Not you, but people who advocate that)

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...r-wars-themed/

https://community.cbr.com/newreply.p...eply&p=5120114

[worstblogever]

What specifically have I said defending Richard Spencer?

You literally linked to four posts where you defended violence being used against him, a Nazi.

My concern was never about him, but about the precedent it sets to endorse violence against him.

The post I was responding to used a particular phrase.

The precedent is really simple. You. Punch. Nazis.

I am unaware of Kyle Rittenhouse being a white nationalist. An NPR article suggests that such a label is premature.

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/28/90713...ect-is-labeled

Perhaps new information has come out in the last few hours shedding further light on this.

It's an ongoing investigation, so I don't think elected officials or major media figures should be supporting him. But if they are, there's no reason to think they're doing it because they expect him to be a white nationalist. They're not primed the situation the way you are.

Trump is a white nationalist. He filled his White House with white nationalists, and some, like Sebastian Gorka who literally wore pro-Nazi medals to the inauguration.
Rittenhouse attented a Trump rally.
Ergo, Rittenhouse is a white nationalist.

It's quite simple.

[Mister Mets]

I read on here people talking about cancel culture. I hear a lot of people talking about it. I do not understand why it is a bad thing? I dont see it as firing someone who disagrees with you. It is about taking down confederate statues. We would not allow a statue of a nazi general in Germany so why is this okay?

It's a matter of degrees.

Most of us would agree that confederate statues should come down. But it doesn't necessarily stop there.

And there are some absurd situations.

I posted about this a few months ago.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...it#post4975113

I've posted links to articles that show some absurd examples of cancel culture.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020...es-bennet.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...nocent/613615/

Yasha Mounk articulated a useful principle on twitter.

One of the core tenets of liberal democracy is that people should not be punished for things that a) are not substantiated, b) were done by their relatives, or c) are not actually objectionable.

Don't trust the people who want to abandon this principle in the name of progress.

This is just a good description of when cancel culture crosses the line.

[worstblogever]

The Republican who just cited multiple posts where he defended a Nazi being punched in the face will now lecture us all about the dangers of cancel culture.

This is a fine moment where we shouldn't be taking an opinion seriously.

[babyblob]

I think my links are perfect examples of cancel culture because it shows how the far left is totally out to lunch...there is a lot more from where this came from.

If you want to ban the confederate flag, I think that is fair and objective because it's a symbol connected to real white supremacy, that is not cancel culture, that is rationality.

If you want to ban old Star Wars films or stop people from wearing Stormtrooper outfits on Halloween because it's a symbol of white supremacy, than your a fruitloop, that is cancel culture. (Not you, but people who advocate that)

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...r-wars-themed/

https://community.cbr.com/newreply.p...eply&p=5120114

That is an extreme example and I know that things like this happen or are talked about. But I dont take it seriously. I hate when the people lump banning of Confederate flags as cancel culture. Or in the case of my aunt when a man is taken off the air for using a gay slur is a case of cancel culture and people need to quit being so sensitive.

[InformationGeek]

Meanwhile, in crazy town, population Trump, here's him going on about how his autograph is worth money on eBay to emergency officials.

Trump goes to Lake Charles to greet emergency officials today after Hurricane Laura, has people brought to him so he can sign autographs they didn't ask for, and then tells them: "Sell it on Ebay for $10,000...If I put your name on it, it loses value."

[The no face guy]

That is an extreme example and I know that things like this happen or are talked about. But I dont take it seriously. I hate when the people lump banning of Confederate flags as cancel culture. Or in the case of my aunt when a man is taken off the air for using a gay slur is a case of cancel culture and people need to quit being so sensitive.

unfortunately it's not an extreme example, this stuff happens all the time. Before Star Wars went supposedly SJW, it was constantly a target of SJW's themselves for its apparent racism, which is probably why Disney took the turn it did.

In a weird twist, this opinion article called the new Star Wars movies racist because the Stormtrooper was black.

https://dailycaller.com/2015/12/21/t...new-star-wars/

and recently the SJW's turned their cancel culture ire towards Kylo Ren, for joining the Marines after 911.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/...ancel-culture/

If this was just a seldom one off, I wouldn't be concerned, but it's been going on for awhile now, and it's one of the worst examples out there of fruit loop ideology.

[InformationGeek]

unfortunately it's not an extreme example, this stuff happens all the time. Before Star Wars went supposedly SJW, it was constantly a target of SJW's themselves for its apparent racism, which is probably why Disney took the turn it did.

In a weird twist, this opinion article called the new Star Wars movies racist because the Stormtrooper was black.

https://dailycaller.com/2015/12/21/t...new-star-wars/

and recently the SJW's turned their cancel culture ire towards Kylo Ren, for joining the Marines after 911.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/...ancel-culture/

If this was just a seldom one off, I wouldn't be concerned, but it's been going on for awhile now, and it's one of the worst examples out there of fruit loop ideology.

....you're citing the daily caller and bounding into comics... really?

[worstblogever]

Meanwhile, in crazy town, population Trump, here's him going on about how his autograph is worth money on eBay to emergency officials.

From the man who gave us tossing paper towels in Puerto Rico and "Whose boat is this boat?"

[Jack Dracula]

I would imagine if the Deputy Chair of the Republican National Committee, an individual who was also in congressional leadership, went to an event with a T-shirt advocating for white nationalism, or a reversal of the 19th amendment, it would be rightly seen as significant.

Actually, it would seem like just another Tuesday.

[The no face guy]

....you're citing the daily caller and bounding into comics... really?

It's not like the New York Times or Huffington post are going to be eager to report on it. When I hear of far right fruitloops complaining that the new Star Wars films represent white genocide, I'm not exactly going to find it on Fox News.

I however can easily pull up numerous sources on hashtag cancel culture Kylo Ren for joining the Marines, quote other previous sources and offer more to your liking.

[Tendrin]

....you're citing the daily caller and bounding into comics... really?

This explains a lot about why they think the 'far left' is 'out to lunch'.