All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[The no face guy]

Maher has an obnoxious way of expressing things and tends to use trivial examples to prove his point though I generally agree that the whole thing has become so trivialized as to be meaningless or, more accurately, it's okay when someone agrees with me but they should be canceled when I don't like what they said.

As to the idea that speakers should not be allowed on campus because some whiny-a$$ kid thinks disagreeing with the opinion is a right to not allow the opinion to be heard, don't even get me started. I'm a liberal but got to agree with the conservative who said that, in 70 years, we've gone from 18-22 year olds storming the beach at Normandy to campuses thinking they might need counseling because they had to hear an opinion they disagreed with. Granted, these are extremes. But there is a segment of liberalism that thinks free speech is great until you disagree with their opinion or say anything they don't like.

I'm a liberal to (in that I would chop off both my hands before I was forced to vote for Trump) but there definitely is demographic culture war going on in the left itself.

The old far left of "the workers must control the means of production" has been replaced by the new far left of Marcusian identity politics that primarily resolves around gender & race, and they've been trying to work themselves into the mainstream of the Democratic Party & society for sometime now...sadly.

I went back to University for a refresher a decade or so ago, and there were some professors there that taught their students that gender & race, were simply social constructs designed by the ruling class to reinforce patriarchal white supremacist hegemony, and that's once that's been toppled, their lives will significantly improve.

That is why when J.K. Rowling tweeted that gender is a biological reality, the woke flipped out, went on a cancel culture campaign, and started to dissect her films for signs of whiteness & hidden racism.

That is also why they freak out and riot on University campuses everytime someone who challenges those views is invited to speak.

[Ragged Maw]

Regarding Maher, I dislike him on many issues. But I don't want him fired. I dislike Trump on many issues. I do want him fired because his job is running the country and it's inherently a job that you get by getting the most votes (but that's another argument). But I don't want him to be unable to express his opinions as long as I can also express mine and everybody else can do it. Nor should Kapernick have lost his job.

It's one of those things that's 100% or nothing. If you don't like it, don't watch the show, go to the concert or lecture, etc. If enough people do that, it will be canceled for poor ratings.

Yeah, yeah, I'm a white male. I'm also bi and if someone says "fag" or "queer", it makes me mad but I'm not even remotely going to demand their cancelation. I will tell them what they can do to themselves- graphically- because I have the right to say things too.

I largely concur with what you said. Still, a glaring issue is the response towards those who go batshit with said views and decide to flat out brutalize or murder those they dont see eye-to-eye with. And law enforcement - from what I've been hearing - has recently been shady as f**k in how they bring those that do to task, let alone deter such escalation. And my kudos to you for handling any pejoratives hurled at you. Unfortunately, there's still a considerable risk you may run into "that one person" (possibly with friends in tow) who might not be satisfied with unloading their baggage on you verbally, if you get my drift. I agree that making tribalistic deplatforming crusades the norm is a lousy solution. However, the police/justice system's approach to "those types" who aren't far away from making their "argument" via bloodier methods, at the very least could use some reworking.

[ed2962]

Maher has an obnoxious way of expressing things and tends to use trivial examples to prove his point though I generally agree that the whole thing has become so trivialized as to be meaningless or, more accurately, it's okay when someone agrees with me but they should be canceled when I don't like what they said.

As to the idea that speakers should not be allowed on campus because some whiny-a$$ kid thinks disagreeing with the opinion is a right to not allow the opinion to be heard, don't even get me started. [B]I'm a liberal but got to agree with the conservative who said that, in 70 years, we've gone from 18-22 year olds storming the beach at Normandy to campuses thinking they might need counseling because they had to hear an opinion they disagreed with. Granted, these are extremes. But there is a segment of liberalism that thinks free speech is great until you disagree with their opinion or say anything they don't like.[/B}

I sorta disagree that this is somehow unique to liberals or "The Left". First of all, people tend to really romanticize "The Greatest Generation"...not everyone were noble souls fighting for freedom. And it wasn't that long after WW2 that you had 18-22yr olds that were beatniks and greasers listening to Elvis. And it wasn't that long after that 18-22yrs olds were hippies and the ones who went to Nam were smoking dope there and just biding their time.

And seriously, these days we have 30yr old men trying to get people fired from movie studios and comic book companies because there's too many girls in their Star Wars movies.

[ed2962]

Regarding Maher, I dislike him on many issues. But I don't want him fired. I dislike Trump on many issues. I do want him fired because his job is running the country and it's inherently a job that you get by getting the most votes (but that's another argument). But I don't want him to be unable to express his opinions as long as I can also express mine and everybody else can do it. Nor should Kapernick have lost his job.

It's one of those things that's 100% or nothing. If you don't like it, don't watch the show, go to the concert or lecture, etc. If enough people do that, it will be canceled for poor ratings.

Yeah, yeah, I'm a white male. I'm also bi and if someone says "fag" or "queer", it makes me mad but I'm not even remotely going to demand their cancelation. I will tell them what they can do to themselves- graphically- because I have the right to say things too.

We're on a comic book site and literally everyday someone is complaining about what's happening to their favorite character or why they don't like some artist or writer. That's part of free speech.

[Powerboy]

I largely concur with what you said. Still, a glaring issue is the response towards those who go batshit with said views and decide to flat out brutalize or murder those they dont see eye-to-eye with. And law enforcement - from what I've been hearing - has recently been shady as f**k in how they bring those that do to task, let alone deter such escalation. And my kudos to you for handling any pejoratives hurled at you. Unfortunately, there's still a considerable risk you may run into "that one person" (possibly with friends in tow) who might not be satisfied with unloading their baggage on you verbally, if you get my drift. I agree that making tribalistic deplatforming crusades the norm is a lousy solution. However, the police/justice system's approach to "those types" who aren't far away from making their "argument" via bloodier methods, at the very least could use some reworking.

True but now you're talking about actions like assault and murder or the threat of such actions or trying to stir people up to such actions. Or maybe even yelling slurs at people on the street to the point they feel they can't go out in public. To me, that's very different than simply expressing an opinion. That gets into threat and intimidation.

[Powerboy]

I sorta disagree that this is somehow unique to liberals or "The Left". First of all, people tend to really romanticize "The Greatest Generation"...not everyone were noble souls fighting for freedom. And it wasn't that long after WW2 that you had 18-22yr olds that were beatniks and greasers listening to Elvis. And it wasn't that long after that 18-22yrs olds were hippies and the ones who went to Nam were smoking dope there and just biding their time.

And seriously, these days we have 30yr old men trying to get people fired from movie studios and comic book companies because there's too many girls in their Star Wars movies.

Oh, conservatives do it all the time. I guess I'm more like, as liberals, we should know better because we really believe in freedom and free speech as reality, not just a superficial, flag-waving freedom of speech when I agree with what's being said.

[numberthirty]

I'm a liberal to (in that I would chop off both my hands before I was forced to vote for Trump) but there definitely is demographic culture war going on in the left itself.

The old far left of "the workers must control the means of production" has been replaced by the new far left of Marcusian identity politics that primarily resolves around gender & race, and they've been trying to work themselves into the mainstream of the Democratic Party & society for sometime now...sadly.

I went back to University for a refresher a decade or so ago, and there were some professors there that taught their students that gender & race, were simply social constructs designed by the ruling class to reinforce patriarchal white supremacist hegemony, and that's once that's been toppled, their lives will significantly improve.

That is why when J.K. Rowling tweeted that gender is a biological reality, the woke flipped out, went on a cancel culture campaign, and started to dissect her films for signs of whiteness & hidden racism.

That is also why they freak out and riot on University campuses everytime someone who challenges those views is invited to speak.

Politely...

You're talking like there is a perfect Care Bears world where she made that statement.

Meanwhile, out in actual reality?

It's not that hard to find a video of someone who falls outside of "A" or "B" being assaulted while folks cheer on a site like Worldstardhiphop.

As long as that is the actual reality of things?

You need to be able to ask yourself if your opinion should be taking a backseat to creating a safer world for those folks who fall outside of "A" or "B".

[Ragged Maw]

True but now you're talking about actions like assault and murder or the threat of such actions or trying to stir people up to such actions. Or maybe even yelling slurs at people on the street to the point they feel they can't go out in public. To me, that's very different than simply expressing an opinion. That gets into threat and intimidation.

That's roughly where I'd draw the line as well. I'm honestly not disagreeing with you so much as adding my own addendum to demonstrate that the current situation is trickier than some give it credit for.

[The no face guy]

Politely...

You're talking like there is a perfect Care Bears world where she made that statement.

Meanwhile, out in actual reality?

It's not that hard to find a video of someone who falls outside of "A" or "B" being assaulted while folks cheer on a site like Worldstardhiphop.

As long as that is the actual reality of things?

You need to be able to ask yourself if your opinion should be taking a backseat to creating a safer world for those folks who fall outside of "A" or "B".

Though part of gender is cultural, it is also a biological empirical reality, and that should never be silenced for political motives, because some professor wants to paint gender merely as an environmental social construct that can be changed on a whim.

Yes we know that people don't fall under categories A, or B, from MRI tests that scan the brain functioning of transgender women, which show their neuropathways operate in similar pathways to women, who operates in different pathways than men.

That does not mean you go on a cancel culture campaign to attack someone's work & career because someone's twisted brain views the comment below as violence. She did not advocate violence against transgender people, she simply stated this...

" If sex isn’t real, there’s no same-sex attraction. If sex isn’t real, the lived reality of women globally is erased. I know and love trans people, but erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives. It isn’t hate to speak the truth."

[numberthirty]

Though part of gender is cultural, it is also a biological empirical reality, and that should never be silenced for political motives, because some professor wants to paint gender merely as an environmental social construct that can be changed on a whim.

Yes we know that people don't fall under categories A, or B, from MRI tests that scan the brain functioning of transgender women, which show their neuropathways operate in similar pathways to women, who operates in different pathways than men.

That does not mean you go on a cancel culture campaign to attack someone's work & career because someone's twisted brain views the comment below as violence. She did not advocate violence against transgender people, she simply stated this...

" If sex isn’t real, there’s no same-sex attraction. If sex isn’t real, the lived reality of women globally is erased. I know and love trans people, but erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives. It isn’t hate to speak the truth."

Not the issue.

If it is an actual call for violence?

Non-issue.

You don't just get to say "What I Have Said Only Goes This Far..." As long as that is the reality, the folks going on this supposed cancel culture campaign are a back burner issue. That she is obviously standing on the same "Anti" side of the line as the folks who actually are committing violent acts is. Until that violence ends, she absolutely should be asking herself if she is working to create a world that might be less safe for the trans people she says she knows and loves.

[The no face guy]

Not the issue.

If it is an actual call for violence?

Non-issue.

You don't just get to say "What I Have Said Only Goes This Far..." As long as that is the reality, the folks going on this supposed cancel culture campaign are a back burner issue. That she is obviously standing on the same "Anti" side of the line as the folks who actually are committing violent acts is. Until that violence ends, she absolutely should be asking herself if she is working to create a world that might be less safe for the trans people she says she knows and loves.

She's simply stating what most people believe, that gender is not soley a social construct it is a biological reality as well. If you think she should be censored and cancelled, and prohibited from free speech for stating what most people believe, that's your call.

You have a strange history on here my friend....

1) Half the time your defending Republican viewpoints.(Since your so fond of highlighting)

2) You tried to gode me into a conversation by attacking Kamala Harris, not knowing I was a Susan Rice supporter for VP

3) In our last conversation, you twice took the side of a far right militia shooter by implying he was acting in self defense, I find that disgusting

4) and now your supposedly defending the woke position.

Do me a favour, stop playing both sides and stand up for your convictions instead of trying to fit in and be popular with some avatars you will never meet.

I'm a center left liberal democrat. I make no bones about it. I hate the far right and I hate the far left, and I don't really care who I p off on here, trying to change your position to fit in, is weak.

[Mister Mets]

I sorta disagree that this is somehow unique to liberals or "The Left". First of all, people tend to really romanticize "The Greatest Generation"...not everyone were noble souls fighting for freedom. And it wasn't that long after WW2 that you had 18-22yr olds that were beatniks and greasers listening to Elvis. And it wasn't that long after that 18-22yrs olds were hippies and the ones who went to Nam were smoking dope there and just biding their time.

And seriously, these days we have 30yr old men trying to get people fired from movie studios and comic book companies because there's too many girls in their Star Wars movies.

Are those 30 year old men wrong because we shouldn't try to get people fired from movie studios in general, or are they wrong because they picked the wrong reason to call for people to get fired?

We're on a comic book site and literally everyday someone is complaining about what's happening to their favorite character or why they don't like some artist or writer. That's part of free speech.

Complaining is one thing.

Cancelling is a little different. It's going beyond. It's the difference between saying you don't like a comic book, and saying that we should boycott who advertises for the comic book.

[Joker]

Yes a guy named "Joker" said it anonymously on a message board. It's much trickier in every day life.

I say it in every day life. Here’s another one I say. Is it just me or does it not feel like Biden is even running a campaign for president, let alone a competitive one? Is my news feed just so clogged with ‘holy shit’ all day that Biden isn’t making the news because he’s not a complete fucking disaster?

Because where I’m sitting it doesn’t feel like Biden is even running a campaign for president.

Yours truly,
Some anonymous guy named “Joker” on the internet.

[Panfoot]

It sure seems like what your calling "cancel culture" is something that has already existed for a long time that is simply "the consequences of ones own actions". JK Rowling hasn't been "cancelled" (which, I'm pretty sure she still has millions of dollars and hasn't lost a job over her statements...) because everyone made some coordinated effort to besmirch her now, she just kept making statements/actions that called into question her views which turned out are bigoted. Turns out people (rightly) don't like that.

[Mister Mets]

Not the issue.

If it is an actual call for violence?

Non-issue.

You don't just get to say "What I Have Said Only Goes This Far..." As long as that is the reality, the folks going on this supposed cancel culture campaign are a back burner issue. That she is obviously standing on the same "Anti" side of the line as the folks who actually are committing violent acts is. Until that violence ends, she absolutely should be asking herself if she is working to create a world that might be less safe for the trans people she says she knows and loves.

What did she say to encourage violent acts?