All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Kirby101]

Look at this post again.



There was no nuance to it.
He's not blaming a sliver of Bernie voters, and there were no other qualifications.
He's blaming all Bernie voters.

I thought it was self evident, that I was talking about Bernie voters who now refuse to vote for Biden because he is not Bernie, or "Bernie was robbed". Not all Bernie voters. Why would I have a problem with Bernie voters now voting for Biden. I was a Warren voter now supporting Biden.

If you need me to qualify, insert the phrase "Bernie voters who won't vote for Biden", into all the places I said Bernie voters.

[Tami]

Look at this post again.



There was no nuance to it.
He's not blaming a sliver of Bernie voters, and there were no other qualifications.
He's blaming all Bernie voters.

Bernie voters are more likely to have sway over other Bernie voters. If enough of them decide to vote for Biden and make their choice public, and they talk to other Bernie voters who are undecided or considering either not voting or voting for Trump, then maybe this will be a non-issue.

I still think only a small percentage of voters who voted for Sanders will not vote for Biden. Still, regardless of the numbers, there is some measure of value in peer-to-peer discussions and making the case.

In the end, everyone has to make up their own minds.

[babyblob]

If there are a segment of Bernie supporters who vote Trump because they wont vote for Biden how can they say they even agree and support anything Bernie is for if they vote for a man who goes against everything he is.

[Kirby101]

If there are a segment of Bernie supporters who vote Trump because they wont vote for Biden how can they say they even agree and support anything Bernie is for if they vote for a man who goes against everything he is.

In 2016 it was about 10%. More likely some wouldn't vote or vote 3rd Party.

[Striderblack01]

I thought it was self evident.

Well, that's a mistake on your part.

If tension between progressives and liberals exists, we should all strive to choose our words carefully, shouldn't we?
The take away that I got from that article is that most Sanders supporters voted for Hillary. The fact that the DNC isn't entitled to any of these votes, converting the majority should be cause for celebration.
The people who voted for Trump, we never stood a chance to convert.

This loose talk of Bernie voters being inflexible just instigates further friction and makes it harder for them to vote for Biden.
How can people not see that?

[Tendrin]

In 2016 it was about 10%. More likely some wouldn't vote or vote 3rd Party.

Most studies put the number as around one in ten.

So not THAT small. They exist, and they may do the same thing again.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

If there are a segment of Bernie supporters who vote Trump because they wont vote for Biden how can they say they even agree and support anything Bernie is for if they vote for a man who goes against everything he is.

And won't address issues of importance to Progressives. Hell, Trump would laugh in their faces and call them suckers. Short and sweet: Bernie supporters who vote for Trump do so out of simple spite because Sanders didn't make the cut, nothing more, nothing less.

[Iron Maiden]

If Joe Biden loses, it is not the fault of Bernie Sanders or his supporters but it is Mr. Biden's fault for not wooing Bernie Sanders' supporters. He doesn't appear progressive enough. The Progressives may find him too centrist like Hillary Clinton.

Mr. Biden had better convince Bernie Bros to vote for him. Or many of them will either stay at home or vote for Trump.


Here's How Many Bernie Sanders Supporters Ultimately Voted For Trump

How is this even going to gain the Bernie voters anything? For some people only someone named Bernie Sanders is going to be "progressive enough". Sorry folks, Bernie didn't win the primary and that's the way it goes. This all or nothing thinking is going to get you another Trump term. How progressive do you think that is going to be??

[Kirby101]

Well, that's a mistake on your part.

If tension between progressives and liberals exists, we should all strive to choose our words carefully, shouldn't we?
The take away that I got from that article is that most Sanders supporters voted for Hillary. The fact that the DNC isn't entitled to any of these votes, converting the majority should be cause for celebration.
The people who voted for Trump, we never stood a chance to convert.

This loose talk of Bernie voters being inflexible just instigates further friction and makes it harder for them to vote for Biden.
How can people not see that?

You know, I didn't bring this up, I was responding to Zauriel who said Biden better be more progressive to appeal to Bernie voters. You can read my response again for my counter argument.
I am actually more of a Social Democrat than anything else. But I am also pragmatic when faced with a threat like Trump.

[Striderblack01]

If you need me to qualify, insert the phrase "Bernie voters who won't vote for Biden", into all the places I said Bernie voters.

You should qualify it every time.
It's important to not be misunderstood.

Bernie voters are more likely to have sway over other Bernie voters. If enough of them decide to vote for Biden and make their choice public, and they talk to other Bernie voters who are undecided or considering either not voting or voting for Trump, then maybe this will be a non-issue.

I still think only a small percentage of voters who voted for Sanders will not vote for Biden. Still, regardless of the numbers, there is some measure of value in peer-to-peer discussions and making the case.

In the end, everyone has to make up their own minds.

It's hard for Bernie voters to sway other Bernie voters when Biden voters are constantly sniping at them.

[Tami]

You should qualify it every time.
It's important to not be misunderstood.



It's hard for Bernie voters to sway other Bernie voters when Biden voters are constantly sniping at them.

Sniping at them for what reasons? How does that usually come about?

[Striderblack01]

Sniping at them for what reasons? How does that usually come about?

Look at this post again.

So Biden has to appeal to the independent center AND the progressive left, while also pealing off Trump voters. And Trump just needs his 35% base. I see.
And there is no responsibility for the Bernie voters who know what a danger Trump is.
Sorry, if Biden loses because of Bernie voters, it's on them, not Biden.
And BTW, the current Dem Platform is the most progressive ever.

There was no nuance to it.
He's not blaming a sliver of Bernie voters, and there were no other qualifications.
He's blaming all Bernie voters.

[worstblogever]

Sniping at them for what reasons? How does that usually come about?

Mostly white fragility. At this point, if the words "Bernie voters" or "Berners" are posted, the context those individuals have is they're being sniped at, and everyone looks down on them for supporting Bernie, and their support being problematic.

Which is, in and of itself, quite problematic. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Meanwhile, I'm like, "Those of you who supported Bernie in the 2016 primary and then voted Trump? That was clearly a mistake, given *gestures* all of this. You have Bernie and all the rest of the Democratic Party telling you that you should vote Biden. I repeat, Bernie is full-throatedly endorsing him, and pointing out the alternative of a second Trump term will lead to suffering and death for everyone. Bernie is telling you that, and to please rally behind the Democratic platform, and ticket. Let's do this together. Come on, let's go."

Anyone who can't do that right now, I'm not going to exasperate myself trying to convince them. If it's Sen. Sanders or nihilism, the effort of trying to convince them when, again, Bernie is telling them to get motivated to vote for the blue ticket and against the red one to get any progressive reform...

There's just no convincing them, if that's how they view progressive politics. You're more likely to get reasonable independents from the suburbs or find a Republican ready to leave the party than get them out of whatever stubborn motivation they've got to flip their vote. And I'd use the energy on them. Because if they're that committed to "Bernie or nobody"... they might need to be committed.

[Tami]

Look at this post again.



There was no nuance to it.
He's not blaming a sliver of Bernie voters, and there were no other qualifications.
He's blaming all Bernie voters.

A better approach would have been, 'Don't you mean some voters? It's not all of them.'

Then Kirby would have replied, 'Yes, your right. I should have qualified my statement. My mistake.'

Then you could have said, 'Thank you for correcting it.'

In civil discourse, it's best to give someone the benefit of the doubt until they make it clear what they really meant. If they double down on their initial statement, then you can say that they are wrong for saying it, that it is inaccurate.

Of course, Kirby could have been more precise with his words, but when you are typing quickly sometimes you don't have time to review what you wrote and realize that there is a better way to phrase it. Still, when possible, I suggest to everyone that we all make an effort to at least review our posts before posting them. And to review them afterward. And to be prepared to be corrected, if it comes up.

[shooshoomanjoe]

Look at this post again.



There was no nuance to it.
He's not blaming a sliver of Bernie voters, and there were no other qualifications.
He's blaming all Bernie voters.

Bernie bros admit that trump is bad for the country and yet still refuse to support Biden. How can you not blame them?