All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina has been confirmed to have COVID. Like Lee, he too was at the nomination ceremony.

Looks like the dominoes are starting to fall.

[babyblob]

Hannity on his show said that trump never called covid a hoax. And he didn't understand how Americans are not getting behind our president in this time of national crisis. And why is everyone getting trump for no mask when pelosi got a haircut and didn't wear one.

Jesus

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I've been reading stuff online about hygiene issues at the WH. Since indoor transmission is the major cause of COVID spreading, then the fact that the WH and wherever Trump's been over the last week has been indoors that means people need to ventilate and disinfect Air Force One, Marine One, the White House itself because the virus particles would have spread indoors and stuck in.

And that's not mentioning the nightmare of contact tracing since Trump as POTUS met a ton of people last week owing to campaigns and daily office duties and so on. There's the press corps, the Secret Service (who have already had cases where they got infected and had to quarantine), the Joint Chiefs, his Republican minions.

The level at which he failed the government cannot be understated really. It's the kind of f--k up that breaks the scale of human stupidity.

Michael Moore is trying to spin this as some mastermind thing but no this isn't any mastermind thing. Trump is an idiot, the people around him are also idiots, possibly bigger idiots. Trump not wearing a mask and encouraging denialism can be explained by "he's evil" but the supposedly smart hucksters around him, the fact that WH officials don't wear masks and so on, can't be explained as anything other than stupidity. These guys aren't smart at all, they are in fact phenomenally stupid people whose only talent is robbing from American people (and also each other) and nothing else.

[InformationGeek]

Take it with a grain of salt, but Claudia Conway, daughter of Kellyanne Conway, says that her mother has contracted COVID as well.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Take it with a grain of salt, but Claudia Conway, daughter of Kellyanne Conway, says that her mother has contracted COVID as well.

So was COVID walking its shots before getting to the A-holes?

[Kirby101]

Why should we have sympathy for a man who said "It is what it is", about 200,000 deaths.

[GindyPosts]

Why should we have sympathy for a man who said "It is what it is", about 200,000 deaths.

I don't have any sympathy for Trump. I have sympathy for lots of people who are going to be effed over if Trump kicks the bucket.

It's going to be absolutely chaotic as we head into an election, followed by what could be a lame duck term for Mike Pence, and how people are going to treat Trump's passing.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I don't have any sympathy for Trump. I have sympathy for lots of people who are going to be effed over if Trump kicks the bucket.

It's going to be absolutely chaotic as we head into an election, followed by what could be a lame duck term for Mike Pence, and how people are going to treat Trump's passing.

I have read some chatter about Pence potentially beating Biden in the election. What do y'all make of that? I honestly don't see it. If in a comparable situation it was Cheney and Bush for instance and Bush shuffled off, yeah Cheney might have carried on but Pence is a lifelong mediocrity, a failed and deeply unpopular governor of Indiana, and chosen by the Trumps because his stock was so low that he had no choice but to hitch his wagon to DJT. He's not some Machiavellian schemer aspirant.

What do y'all think?

If Trump passes, I can see the Republicans and Pence as lame-duck nominating Barrett as a "must honor the last act of the president" ploy. The optics of moving against that would not be easy for Schumer and others. Pence as candidate would need to quickly outline an agenda that helps struggling senators win over Rep. moderates but again on such a short notice there's not enough time for Pence to rebrand himself. And of course any rebranding measure would drive away Trump's base, with Pence made out as some grasping turncoat and so on.

[zinderel]

Why should we have sympathy for a man who said "It is what it is", about 200,000 deaths.

We shouldn’t. Performative sympathy for the embodiment of the Seven Deadly Sins is pointless and we all know that sympathizers are just playing it up for White Knight status. No one loses sleep sobbing over a serial killer being put down, and no one is going to lose sleep if the guy whose corruption and incompetence - about...literally everything... - has caused so many deaths and so much suffering passes to the virus he mishandled, downplayed, and spread misinformation and lies about.

[Tami]

I have read some chatter about Pence potentially beating Biden in the election. What do y'all make of that? I honestly don't see it. If in a comparable situation it was Cheney and Bush for instance and Bush shuffled off, yeah Cheney might have carried on but Pence is a lifelong mediocrity, a failed and deeply unpopular governor of Indiana, and chosen by the Trumps because his stock was so low that he had no choice but to hitch his wagon to DJT. He's not some Machiavellian schemer aspirant.

What do y'all think?

If Trump passes, I can see the Republicans and Pence as lame-duck nominating Barrett as a "must honor the last act of the president" ploy. The optics of moving against that would not be easy for Schumer and others. Pence as candidate would need to quickly outline an agenda that helps struggling senators win over Rep. moderates but again on such a short notice there's not enough time for Pence to rebrand himself. And of course any rebranding measure would drive away Trump's base, with Pence made out as some grasping turncoat and so on.

VERIFY: What Trump's COVID-19 diagnosis means for presidential election

What happens if a candidate drops out this late in the race?

It depends on when the candidate drops out.

If it happens between now and Election Day, both the Democratic National Committee and Republican National Committee say in their bylaws that they would select a new nominee for their party. However, that doesn't guarantee the new candidate will make it onto the ballot in every state given that it's so late in the race.

Should a candidate drop out between Election Day and December 14 when the Electoral College electors cast their votes, the electors decide what to do with their votes. That's according to John Fortier of the Bipartisan Policy Center.

In the case that a candidate drops out between December 14 and Inauguration Day, it's up to Congress to decide what happens to the votes, Fortier said.

A candidate hasn't dropped out late in a race since 1972 when Thomas Eagleton, the running mate to Democratic Nominee George McGovern, resigned. However, he was the vice presidential candidate and he dropped out in August rather than October or later.

We’re in the final stages of the presidential election. What happens if a candidate withdraws or dies?

In some sense, that’s the easy part, given how late in the election process we are now. If there were enough time, the party would seek to put the name of its new candidate on the ballot in each state. There almost certainly would not be time to do this, particularly if the issue only arises two to three weeks from now. The states have various deadlines for when the parties must certify their candidates for the ballot. Those dates have passed. In theory, the RNC could go to court to seek an order permitting it to change the name of its candidate. But there simply would not be enough time to reprint ballots at that point. President Trump will almost certainly remain on the ballot, no matter what happens.

That makes the second scenario the more critical one. Suppose Trump wins the election, even if incapacitated, or becomes incapacitated after the election but before Inauguration Day. This situation is more complex.

The votes for president are cast, of course, in the electoral college. The issue would be how an elector should or can cast their vote if the president wins their state but cannot serve.

In some states, the electors are not legally bound to vote for the candidate who has won their state, though of course, that’s what they do in practice. Indeed, some state laws do expressly provide that electors have discretion in this situation. Republican electors in those states would then most likely vote for the candidate the RNC had put forward to replace the president. The electors in any state (for Democratic nominee Joe Biden or Trump) are likely to be strong party loyalists, if the parties have been careful about who ran as electors on their behalf. If that’s the case, they would likely follow the RNC’s lead.

But a number of states legally bind their electors to vote for the candidate who has won the state’s popular vote. Those laws have a gap: they don’t provide for what electors can or must do if Trump wins their state but can’t serve. When these laws were written, state legislatures were not thinking about this remote possibility.

My view is that even if the electors are formally bound by state law to vote for the dead candidate, they will go ahead and vote for the candidate the RNC has identified to replace the president, if he cannot serve. It is hard to imagine they would be sanctioned for violating these laws; in any event, the sanctions are so mild no elector would be deterred by them in this situation.

[Joker]

Take it with a grain of salt, but Claudia Conway, daughter of Kellyanne Conway, says that her mother has contracted COVID as well.

It’s confirmed.

[KCJ506]

Covid isn't something I'd wish on anyone, but

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[GindyPosts]

I have read some chatter about Pence potentially beating Biden in the election. What do y'all make of that? I honestly don't see it. If in a comparable situation it was Cheney and Bush for instance and Bush shuffled off, yeah Cheney might have carried on but Pence is a lifelong mediocrity, a failed and deeply unpopular governor of Indiana, and chosen by the Trumps because his stock was so low that he had no choice but to hitch his wagon to DJT. He's not some Machiavellian schemer aspirant.

What do y'all think?

If Trump passes, I can see the Republicans and Pence as lame-duck nominating Barrett as a "must honor the last act of the president" ploy. The optics of moving against that would not be easy for Schumer and others. Pence as candidate would need to quickly outline an agenda that helps struggling senators win over Rep. moderates but again on such a short notice there's not enough time for Pence to rebrand himself. And of course any rebranding measure would drive away Trump's base, with Pence made out as some grasping turncoat and so on.

Some people may vote for Pence out of sympathy for Trump, but you would be asking people to immediately ask to hedge their bets on what exactly a Pence administration would be without any foresight or planning through campaigning. Pence would effectively be forced on the road with just a few days to convince everyone to give him a chance as president, and while that would have been the plan in, say, 2024 or beyond had Trump won reelection and secured 4 more years of gloating, being thrusted into such a situation early would cause problems with those plans. The 22nd Amendment does provide protection for Pence's campaign in the future, as he wouldn't be president for any substantial period of time, and we did have a president who served non consecutive terms in Grover Cleveland. However, given the overall unpopularity of the Trump presidency in hindsight, and Pence's unpopularity outside of the Religious Right (though he is a schemer; the man originally was a muckraker and liked to be extremely dirty in the 1980s, before he changed tactics and decided to be the nice guy when he resumed running for office in the late 1990s, instead opting to let other people be say the vile things he wouldn't in person), not to mention lack of notoriety outside of his own state even after becoming VP... all the power they could muster would be, as you said, adding Barrett onto the Supreme Court, ensuring the Court has a conservative slant, even as Trump's legacy is in tatters.

The only things you would know about a Pence presidency would be if you understood Pence, and that would require you to have A) lived in Indiana (something I wouldn't recommend, even as a Hoosier) or B) studied fundamentalist Christianity. Beyond that, you would essentially be gambling immediately on an uncertain future, and I believe undecided voters would likely just opt for what they already know.

[Kirby101]

I have read some chatter about Pence potentially beating Biden in the election. What do y'all make of that? I honestly don't see it. If in a comparable situation it was Cheney and Bush for instance and Bush shuffled off, yeah Cheney might have carried on but Pence is a lifelong mediocrity, a failed and deeply unpopular governor of Indiana, and chosen by the Trumps because his stock was so low that he had no choice but to hitch his wagon to DJT. He's not some Machiavellian schemer aspirant.

What do y'all think?

If Trump passes, I can see the Republicans and Pence as lame-duck nominating Barrett as a "must honor the last act of the president" ploy. The optics of moving against that would not be easy for Schumer and others. Pence as candidate would need to quickly outline an agenda that helps struggling senators win over Rep. moderates but again on such a short notice there's not enough time for Pence to rebrand himself. And of course any rebranding measure would drive away Trump's base, with Pence made out as some grasping turncoat and so on.

GOP voters are a cult. And they worship Donald Trump. Half of them won't come out for Pence.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I have read some chatter about Pence potentially beating Biden in the election. What do y'all make of that? I honestly don't see it. If in a comparable situation it was Cheney and Bush for instance and Bush shuffled off, yeah Cheney might have carried on but Pence is a lifelong mediocrity, a failed and deeply unpopular governor of Indiana, and chosen by the Trumps because his stock was so low that he had no choice but to hitch his wagon to DJT. He's not some Machiavellian schemer aspirant.

What do y'all think?

If Trump passes, I can see the Republicans and Pence as lame-duck nominating Barrett as a "must honor the last act of the president" ploy. The optics of moving against that would not be easy for Schumer and others. Pence as candidate would need to quickly outline an agenda that helps struggling senators win over Rep. moderates but again on such a short notice there's not enough time for Pence to rebrand himself. And of course any rebranding measure would drive away Trump's base, with Pence made out as some grasping turncoat and so on.

If Moscow Mitch and Senate Republicans believed for one minute that Pence could beat Biden in the election, they would’ve kicked Trump to the curb back in January. It’s as I’ve said in this thread more times than I can count, right wingers are loyal to Trump, NOT the party, if he goes, his supporters go with him, and so do any chance the GOP has of winning the election.