All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Tendrin]

You mean the decline of Union representation and good paying jobs in Michigan has nothing to due with the rise of right wing militia groups, that myth. All right then enlighten me.

Yes, this is easily done by you reading Alt-America by David Neiwert. I wonder how much you think all the tactical gear these guys are out there wearing costs, and why you think poor people can afford them.

[numberthirty]

You mean the decline of Union representation and good paying jobs in Michigan has nothing to due with the rise of right wing militia groups, that myth. All right then enlighten me.

When it comes to this...

Just because it is a part of the landscape doesn't make it even largely the "Why?..."

[Tendrin]

When it comes to this...

Just because it is a part of the landscape doesn't make it even largely the "Why?..."

It certainly has less to do with things than a black guy becoming president did, which is when membership in militia groups skyrocketed. But, yeah, sure, buy the 'economic anxiety' myth.

[The no face guy]

Yes, this is easily done by you reading Alt-America by David Neiwert. I wonder how much you think all the tactical gear these guys are out there wearing costs, and why you think poor people can afford them.

Who the f#ck is David Neiwert? Honestly Tendrin I must commend you on your knowledge of white nationalism, I declare ignorance, but I don't read stuff by far right fruitloops.

I support the United Auto Workers, the United Farm Workers, and unions in general, you support Antifa punks smashing windows and lighting park benches on fire in Portland.

I support Barak O Bama, Bill Maher, Noam Chomsky and Cornel West, but yet you had a problem with each of them.

[numberthirty]

Who the f#ck is David Neiwert? Honestly Tendrin I must commend you on your knowledge of white nationalism, I declare ignorance, but I don't read stuff by far right fruitloops.

I support the United Auto Workers, the United Farm Workers, and unions in general, you support Antifa punks smashing windows and lighting park benches on fire in Portland.

I support Barak O Bama, Bill Maher, Noam Chomsky and Cornel West, but yet you had a problem with each of them.

Maher's old show laid the foundations for a lot of the folks that are keeping working class folks in a lousy spot today.

Seriously, second guess that guy's garbage at all costs.

[Tendrin]

Who the f#ck is David Neiwert? Honestly Tendrin I must commend you on your knowledge of white nationalism, I declare ignorance, but I don't read stuff by far right fruitloops.

I support the United Auto Workers, the United Farm Workers, and unions in general, you support Antifa punks smashing windows and lighting park benches on fire in Portland.

I support Barak O Bama, Bill Maher, Noam Chomsky and Cornel West, but yet you had a problem with each of them.

Bill Maher is a hateful, smug, transphobic, islamaphobic, prick. Nothing nice he says on behalf of liberalism or Unions takes away any of those things.

I didn't say anything bad about Noam Chomsky, except of course for the fact that he's a genocide denier -- which he is. Google is your friend.

On June 6, 1977, Noam Chomsky and Edward S. Herman published an article in The Nation which contrasted the views expressed in books by Barron and Paul, Ponchaud, and Porter and Hildebrand, and in articles and accounts by Butterfield, Bragg, Kahin, Cazaux, Shanberg, Tolgraven and others. Their conclusion was: "We do not pretend to know where the truth lies amidst these sharply conflicting assessments; rather, we again want to emphasize some crucial points. What filters through to the American public is a seriously distorted version of the evidence available, emphasizing alleged Khmer Rouge atrocities and downplaying or ignoring the crucial U.S. role, direct and indirect, in the torment that Cambodia has suffered."[19]

-- on the genocide by the Khmer Rouge. He is no less capable of being wrong than anyone else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial

The most negative thing I've said about West in this thread is that he went on Tucker Carlson's White Power Hour and Tucker nodded knowingly and agreeably, and a whole lot of rubes went 'behold, the power of socialism!', while ignoring Tucker's latest racist rants the next day, or his return to hateful fascist rhetoric.

David Neiwert is a respected author of books tracking the rise of the far-right in America. His work on 'the rise of psuedo fascism' on the right correctedly charted the metamorphosis of right-wing politics in this country, something he followed up with 'the Eliminatioinists', which again correctly showed in stark terms the conditions set for a rise in right-wing violence presaged by eliminationist rhetoric on the faqr right. Alt-America is a book about further shifts in right-wing politics.

It's nice that you support unions, I guess, but none of that changes the patronizing viewpoints and mythology you've plainly bought into and you'd do well to stop making presumptions about the people you're talking to, too.

[Username taken]

Indugling your myths doesn't defeat white-wing populism.

Exactly this.

We are entitled to our opinions but that doesn't change the facts.

[chamber-music]

That's putting the cart before the horse. Post-70s, American firms for various reason were not able to compete with Japanese and Europeans (such as in Germany) firms due to various reasons including quicker adaptation of newer technologies there/education/different economic models (the Japanese models that was later exported to SKorea/Taiwan/China favored government leverage of banks and using loans to support state sponsored industrialization via private firms). The only way American firms thought they could compete was through slashing the cost of labor (breaking and undermining the unions)or shipping the jobs overseas which was again to lower overhead for labor. But the reason Rust Model is the way it is now is because American industry failed to adapt to changing conditions when the rest of the developed world starting catching up to American industry .You see the same thing with British motorcycle companies that got their ass kicked by Japanese companies like Yamaha/Suzuki/Honda.

People take success for granted and think it will last for ever. You need to remain innovative, competitive and dynamic if you want to remain at the top.

The U.S has steadily turned it's back on anti-trust laws which has lead to a subsequent decline in competition that severely hurt US consumers and workers through higher prices, lower investment, and lower productivity growth.

[The no face guy]

Your aggressive deflection and inability to actually offer a counter-argument of any substance is duly noted. Bill Maher is a hateful, smug, transphobic, islamaphobic, prick. Nothing nice he says on behalf of liberalism or Unions takes away any of those things.

I didn't say anything bad about Noam Chomsky, except of course for the fact that he's a genocide denier -- which he is. Google is your friend.



-- on the genocide by the Khmer Rouge. He is no less capable of being wrong than anyone else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial

The most negative thing I've said about West in this thread is that he went on Tucker Carlson and Tucker nodded knowingly and agreeably, and a whole lot of rubes went 'see, the power of socialism!', while ignoring Tucker's latest racist rants the next day, or his return to hateful fascist rhetoric.

David Neiwert is a respected author of books tracking the rise of the far-right in America. His work on 'the rise of psuedo fascism' on the right correctedly charted the metamorphosis of right-wing politics in this country, something he followed up with 'the Eliminatioinists', which again correctly showed in stark terms the conditions set for a rise in right-wing violence presaged by eliminationist rhetoric on the faqr right. Alt-America is a book about further shifts in right-wing politics.

It's nice that you support unions, I guess, but none of that changes the patronizing viewpoints and mythology you've plainly bought into.

Okay good, you finally provided a source worthy of note, I will check him out, I assumed you were taking another snipe at me. I'm aware of Noam Chomsky's comments on the Khmer Rouge, and they are very problematic, but that has nothing to do with his opposition to the censor of free speech on University campuses.

The rise of right wing populism and the growth of inequality has been studied to death by academics, it's hardly mythology. I noted previously that it is not the only cause of right wing extremism. Historically rooted patriarchal views on gender, homophobia, and bigotry, particularly in rural areas, has helped plant the seeds that allows right wing populism to grow.

Stable employment and good paying jobs, have historically acted as a buffer against political extremism. When Billy Joe is making good money he's far less likely to be indoctrinated by the far right, as for eliminating deeply rooted cultural views that normalize homophobia and rigid gender views, which makes the far right appealing in the first place. That is the long game, and it's going to take decades of education to try to stamp that out.

[Tendrin]

Okay good, you finally provided a source worthy of note, I will check him out, I assumed you were taking another snipe at me. I'm aware of Noam Chomsky's comments on the Khmer Rouge, and they are very problematic, but that has nothing to do with his opposition to the censor of free speech on University campuses.

The rise of right wing populism and the growth of inequality has been studied to death by academics, it's hardly mythology. I noted previously that it is not the only cause of right wing extremism. Historically rooted patriarchal views on gender, homophobia, and bigotry, particularly in rural areas, has helped plant the seeds that allows right wing populism to grow.

Stable employment and good paying jobs, have historically acted as a buffer against political extremism. When Billy Joe is making good money he's far less likely to be indoctrinated by the far right, as for eliminating deeply rooted cultural views that normalize homophobia and rigid gender views, which makes the far right appealing in the first place. That is the long game, and it's going to take decades of education to try to stamp that out.

You need ot take a hard look at the mythology on offer here. Until you open your eyes to the primary driver of right wing politics in this country, which is not economics or 'Billy Joe making good money', rather it is the culture of /white identity politics/. Until you can address whiteness, all you'll do is provide money to people who will go buy tac gear with it. It is precisely *the comfortable* who are buying those oodles of guns and tactical gear and they are doing that because preserving a hierarchy that placqes whiteness atop it that's at issue. That's why militias exploded in growth when Obama became president.

[Joker]

Saying that a morbidly obese man in his 70s with a likely drug problem and a very likely recent history of strokes has a "99 percent chance" of surviving covid is (a) factually wrong and (b) making the virus sound less dangerous than it is, which makes the statement dangerous.

Nobody has a 99% chance of surviving Covid. We don't know enough about it to make those kind of statements in hard numbers. But if you want to pretend that the President of the United States is not going to get the absolute best medical care available in this country, you're wrong. So, in the "context" of what we're talking about, 99% is a fine statement. Also, this is a comic book message board, and I am not, nor have I ever pretended to be a doctor, so no one is looking to me for 100% (not an exaggeration) factual information regarding Covid survival rates, or the Presidents chances.

But here you are, throwing out a bunch of "likely" scenarios about his health as if you have any real idea what his real health situation really is. Which you don't. Fucking unreal.

[Joker]

Stable employment and good paying jobs,

I've been unemployed. Never plotted to kidnap anyone. With weapons, and tactical gear I bought on the street.

[The no face guy]

You need ot take a hard look at the mythology on offer here. Until you open your eyes to the primary driver of right wing politics in this country, which is not economics or 'Billy Joe making good money', rather it is the culture of /white identity politics/.

I am quite aware of the cultural politics that promotes white identity nationalism, and how xenophobia is used by right wing demagogues to get the white working class to vote for them. Neverthless, the driving factor of right wing nationalism is inexplicitly linked to economics.

The rise of nativist right wing populism didn't garner steam until after the crash of 2008, and has been on the rise across the globe ever since, from the United States to the Philippines.

[numberthirty]

I am quite aware of the cultural politics that promotes white identity nationalism, and how xenophobia is used by right wing demagogues to get the white working class to vote for them. Neverthless, the driving factor of right wing nationalism is inexplicitly linked to economics.

The rise of nativist right wing populism didn't garner steam until after the crash of 2008, and has been on the rise across the globe ever since, from the United States to the Philippines.

Here's the thing about framing it like that though...

Did Michigan lose most of the jobs you mentioned in the year 2008?

If you think that over and you arrive at a "Well, no..." answer, it's not that far out to second guess just how much "Economic Insecurity..." has been a driving factor in what has been happening since 2008.

[The no face guy]

Here's the thing about framing it like that though...

Did Michigan lose most of the jobs you mentioned in the year 2008?

If you think that over and you arrive at a "Well, no..." answer, it's not that far out to second guess just how much "Economic Insecurity..." has been a driving factor in what has been happening since 2008.

The decline in wages and good paying jobs in Michigan has been going on for decades and prompted Michael Moore to make his first movie on the subject "Roger and Me"

Things don't change overnight, it's a slow burn of the candle, the standard of living for white working class communities has been on downward trend for quite sometime, 2008 accelerated the process.

If you want an interestingly morbid statistic on how Trump succeeded in the mid west, check out the death rate amongst middle age whites.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1207154515.htm

Michigan, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin had less than a 1 percent difference between the two parties in the 2016 election," said Bilal, a post-doctoral researcher at Drexel's Dornsife School of Public Health. "Of these four states, the GOP won Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, allowing them to secure the electoral college vote."

Using data from 2,764 counties (roughly 91 percent of the counties in the U.S), Bilal and his team found that counties that voted Republican, after being Democrat for 2008 and 2012, showed an average increase of 10.7 deaths per 100,000 middle-aged white residents over the last 15 years.

But if counties that voted Democrat in 2008 and 2012 stayed Democrat for 2016, the death rates there actually declined over the last 15 years by 15.7 per 100,000, on average, the study discovered.