All purpose news and politics thread part VI: This Is Not The Time For Posing

[Gray Lensman]

The Electoral College is a weird institution that at least has a somewhat understandable argument for continuing to exist - the popular vote supposedly being too centered on the west and east edges of the country to elect people who understand the issues facing midwestern and other states in between those two edges. Though, given the some of the more “unsavory” results of clinging to this way of determining elections, while we may not necessarily have to make the popular vote the be-all end-all, I think the College is showing its age, and so a new kind of system might need to be considered. If for nothing else than to lower the odds of us finding ourselves in this bad of a plague-ridden clusterfuck again.

I like what was posted in here a couple days ago - The Wyoming Rule. Increase the number in the house of representatives by eliminating the 435 member cap and making the population of the least populated state equal to one representative and increasing the number alloted to larger states by multiples of that. It isn't perfect, but it IS better and won't require a constitutional ammendment.

[Joker]

Impeached and removed is what people wanted.

We’re not talking about what people wanted, we’re talking about what happened. He was impeached. We should never say otherwise.

[BeastieRunner]

We’re not talking about what people wanted, we’re talking about what happened. He was impeached. We should never say otherwise.

I know ... that was what the rest of my post was about.

[Mister Mets]

How is this relevant to anything? Of course there are more white people below the poverty line in the this country! Their population is four and a half times higher than that of African Americans.

It's relevant to the question of whether the points about equity and equality are exclusively about race/ protected classes, or about increasing opportunities for everyone.

Efforts to create a more equitable society will help many people of color, but it will help others as well. That can be an important thing to remember when advocating for particular policies, because the people who can be helped vote.

Whenever raw numbers come up and even the "equal start" ideology comes up, I have never seen in my lifetime or read about in any history book white conservative or liberal America own their part of the problem. Let alone, make sweeping changes that would help POC, LGBTQ, women, etc. because they would have to concede their spot on the ledge or at the very least ... help everyone else get up. It's only been very recently that liberal white America has moved towards this.

Using another common analogy, I am happy you have all that in your background, to start the race. You started way ahead of everyone else without even having the whiteness at work in play. Your starting line was about 25M ahead of the average American. Throw in your whiteness and maleness, and you start at the halfway point. Now the personal drive and family background is something we can address but for the average American black person ... the color divide needs to go first. It has been WAY too long for that to be handled. Same for women and other minorities.

Rhetorically speaking, maybe it is time us white, middle-aged males get out of the way and start lifting up POC, LGBTQ, women, etc.? That seems like a good start to me.

Politically, the argument that white men should get out of the way is not going to go over very well with the voters. Nor should it.

There is a segment of white men more privileged than the rest, who don't seem to be getting out of the way, so I could certainly see major contention if people who aren't that privileged (whose parents never went to college, who may have mental health issues/ disabilities, who went to mediocre school districts, etc.) are told to get out of the way and lift up others. The suggestion that we get better results with less competition is also deeply flawed.

It is worth noting that by many metrics, things are going better for those others. African-American and Hispanic women attend college at higher rates than white men.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/...t19_302.60.asp



One problem with looking just at results is that it takes decades to figure out how someone's career is going to end. It'll be some time before we determine the effects of the higher graduation rate among women on their lifetime professional earnings, which may be determined by their own decisions rather than men who might want the same jobs.

[Mister Mets]

As I’ve maintained, IMO the only reason Trump wasn’t impeached and we don’t have a President Pence today was because the GOP knew that if they lost Trump, they’d lose his fanatical base who’s more loyal to him than they are the party. Pence is just as dangerous as everyone else in that administration, but he’s too quiet and low key and doesn’t move the needle not even a little bit with the Trumpanzees who are more interested in sizzle than steak.

Others pointed out that Trump was impeached, but it seemed weird that if Democrats went with the best charges against him, one of the two was that he was mean to Congress. They didn't do it well.

I like what was posted in here a couple days ago - The Wyoming Rule. Increase the number in the house of representatives by eliminating the 435 member cap and making the population of the least populated state equal to one representative and increasing the number alloted to larger states by multiples of that. It isn't perfect, but it IS better and won't require a constitutional ammendment.

It's curious that Nancy Pelosi hasn't been advocating for it, as it touches on the branch of government she controls.

[Gray Lensman]

It's curious that Nancy Pelosi hasn't been advocating for it, as it touches on the branch of government she controls.

It makes no sense for her to bring it up now, as the GoP would misrepresent it and use that misrepresentation to energize the base for the election. Best to bring it up after the election, or maybe even wait until the new Congress is sworn in. It would still take an act of law, and is unlikely to even be scheduled for discussion my the Mitchocrite, nor be signed into law by Benedict Donald in the unlikely event it reached his desk.

[ChangingStation]

Others pointed out that Trump was impeached, but it seemed weird that if Democrats went with the best charges against him, one of the two was that he was mean to Congress. They didn't do it well.



It's curious that Nancy Pelosi hasn't been advocating for it, as it touches on the branch of government she controls.

And the other was that he was trying to blackmail a foreign power into giving him material against one of his political opponents. Disrespect to Congress aside, (which lets be fair is a very dangerous attitude for a head of state to display to the legislative branch) impeachment was a justified response. He wasn't censured or dismissed, but his crime was serious, dangerous, and utterly self serving.

As for the Wyoming idea... Well, they are considering multiple solutions to balance things electorally (making Porto Rico a state for example and standardizing methods to prevent voter suppression) and senatewise (shrinking the district of Columbia so that the city itself is given the due representation for a population of its size). Your thoughts on these options, Met?

[4saken1]

There is a segment of white men more privileged than the rest, who don't seem to be getting out of the way, so I could certainly see major contention if people who aren't that privileged (whose parents never went to college, who may have mental health issues/ disabilities, who went to mediocre school districts, etc.) are told to get out of the way and lift up others. The suggestion that we get better results with less competition is also deeply flawed.

It is worth noting that by many metrics, things are going better for those others. African-American and Hispanic women attend college at higher rates than white men.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/...t19_302.60.asp



One problem with looking just at results is that it takes decades to figure out how someone's career is going to end. It'll be some time before we determine the effects of the higher graduation rate among women on their lifetime professional earnings, which may be determined by their own decisions rather than men who might want the same jobs.

Hmmmmm.......maybe a significant factor for this disparity is that statistically a woman in this country needs a Bachelor's degree in order to make the same amount of money as a white male high school graduate. When you look at these numbers, though, they are nowhere near as disparate as the poverty rates of whites vs blacks. White women have a 16% higher enrollment rate than white males and black females only a 4.5% higher rate. Black poverty is double the national average than their white counterparts.

[ChangingStation]

Hmmmmm.......maybe a significant factor for this disparity is that statistically a woman in this country needs a Bachelor's degree in order to make the same amount of money as a white male high school graduate.

Yeah, the idea that a black man needs more education than a white man to be as employable for example is unfortunately common. Same for women.

[The no face guy]

Y'all Queda hard at work! Thankfully, there weren't any violence or injuries, just a lot of frayed nerves on that bus. Imagine what Trumpanzees might do if their precious leader loses the election.

Well nothing like a crazy unhinged President to bring out the crazies. I can understand why Trump loves Putin now, roughing up or intimidating the political opposition is commonplace in Russia, thought the latter does it more discretly, Trump can't resist getting on his twitter megaphone and calling them patriots.

I wonder, when these guys watched the Dukes of Hazard, did they root for Boss Hogg? Or did they convince themselves that Boss Hogg must have been a liberal?

Not sure, but they look old enough to have been watching the Dukes of Hazard's back in the day.

Trump train? What are they in grade 3? They need to grow up, there actions are completely irresponsible. There is no place for this kind of behavior in a civil democracy.

[Mister Mets]

It makes no sense for her to bring it up now, as the GoP would misrepresent it and use that misrepresentation to energize the base for the election. Best to bring it up after the election, or maybe even wait until the new Congress is sworn in. It would still take an act of law, and is unlikely to even be scheduled for discussion my the Mitchocrite, nor be signed into law by Benedict Donald in the unlikely event it reached his desk.

Since she has never brought it up, and few elected officials have mentioned it, there's no mandate for it, so it would be difficult for Democrats to get the public support to push it through, in the event Democrats take the White House and the Senate, which they likely have better than even odds of pulling off.

And the other was that he was trying to blackmail a foreign power into giving him material against one of his political opponents. Disrespect to Congress aside, (which lets be fair is a very dangerous attitude for a head of state to display to the legislative branch) impeachment was a justified response. He wasn't censured or dismissed, but his crime was serious, dangerous, and utterly self serving.

As for the Wyoming idea... Well, they are considering multiple solutions to balance things electorally (making Porto Rico a state for example and standardizing methods to prevent voter suppression) and senatewise (shrinking the district of Columbia so that the city itself is given the due representation for a population of its size). Your thoughts on these options, Met?

They probably should have picked a better second charge than contempt of Congress.

I do personally like the Wyoming idea, as a way to mitigate the inequity between small states and large states. There may have been an opportunity to get bipartisan support by reminding Republican members of Congress of their advantages (incumbents are more likely to keep their jobs with more seats; it would result in a lot of open seats in midterm elections which historically favor Republicans.)

I support Puerto Rican statehood. It's got nothing to do with balancing things electorally, but about getting a population larger than Iowa (home of important presidential caucuses), Arkansas (home of a recent President), and Nevada (home of a recent legislative leader) more control over their futures. I do have quibbles about their poor finances, and the potential oddness of a state where English isn't the first language (I am aware that, technically, the US has no official language) although these can be surpassed.

It wouldn't surprise if we get further retrocession, so that everyone currently in DC is considered to be part of Maryland, which would result in congressional representation and the ability to vote for Senators, without creating the nation's smallest state. There could be bipartisan support for it to avoid the fight over statehood for DC/ Douglass. The 23rd amendment isn't a problem if DC suddenly has a population of zero, as the 23rd amendment gives Congress the ability to determine how the electors are distributed. It could just go to the winners of the popular vote.

Hmmmmm.......maybe a significant factor for this disparity is that statistically a woman in this country needs a Bachelor's degree in order to make the same amount of money as a white male high school graduate.

The pay disparity question is less significant when people compare salaries for the same position.

There are other circumstances here. Men are more likely to go for jobs that require strength. Women are more likely to pick jobs where they can take a few years off/ spend more time with the family.

[Robotman]

November 1st is Dia del los Muertos. A Mexican holiday in which people gather to celebrate the memory of their deceased loved ones. Trump has declared November 1st a national day of remembrance for people killed by illegal immigrants.


Trump Co-Opts Mexican Holiday with Proclamation Demonizing Illegal Immigrants

[The Cool Thatguy]

November 1st is Dia del los Muertos. A Mexican holiday in which people gather to celebrate the memory of their deceased loved ones. Trump has declared November 1st a national day of remembrance for people killed by illegal immigrants.


Trump Co-Opts Mexican Holiday with Proclamation Demonizing Illegal Immigrants

And so many Hispanics are gonna vote Trump 'cause they think Biden is a socialist.

Sigh...

[ChangingStation]

Since she has never brought it up, and few elected officials have mentioned it, there's no mandate for it, so it would be difficult for Democrats to get the public support to push it through, in the event Democrats take the White House and the Senate, which they likely have better than even odds of pulling off.

They probably should have picked a better second charge than contempt of Congress.

I do personally like the Wyoming idea, as a way to mitigate the inequity between small states and large states. There may have been an opportunity to get bipartisan support by reminding Republican members of Congress of their advantages (incumbents are more likely to keep their jobs with more seats; it would result in a lot of open seats in midterm elections which historically favor Republicans.)

I support Puerto Rican statehood. It's got nothing to do with balancing things electorally, but about getting a population larger than Iowa (home of important presidential caucuses), Arkansas (home of a recent President), and Nevada (home of a recent legislative leader) more control over their futures. I do have quibbles about their poor finances, and the potential oddness of a state where English isn't the first language (I am aware that, technically, the US has no official language) although these can be surpassed.

It wouldn't surprise if we get further retrocession, so that everyone currently in DC is considered to be part of Maryland, which would result in congressional representation and the ability to vote for Senators, without creating the nation's smallest state. There could be bipartisan support for it to avoid the fight over statehood for DC/ Douglass. The 23rd amendment isn't a problem if DC suddenly has a population of zero, as the 23rd amendment gives Congress the ability to determine how the electors are distributed. It could just go to the winners of the popular vote.

The pay disparity question is less significant when people compare salaries for the same position.

There are other circumstances here. Men are more likely to go for jobs that require strength. Women are more likely to pick jobs where they can take a few years off/ spend more time with the family.

So, in general, we do at least agree that something should be done in the cases we discussed.

As for those other circumstances, they do exist, but please never make the mistake of generalizing preferred roles, some men want to spend more time with their kids and some women choose not to have them until later in life.

[ChangingStation]

And so many Hispanics are gonna vote Trump 'cause they think Biden is a socialist.

Sigh...

Hispanics like many other people can have this whole us vs them dynamic, where they don't care about immigrants because they think that they are exceptions due to circumstance (i.e. Cuba & Venezuala).