When being an Avenger used to mean something

[H-E-D]

The Avengers have always just been a team of whoever.

If Two-Gun Kid can be an Avenger, anybody can be. And that's a good thing.

[Gaastra]

What about anti-vision, spider-queen (both were avengers for some time), Terminatrix as nebula, and female loki as wanda? They were all avengers at one point. Spider-queen was a avengers for a long time in fact before secret invasion started.

[JudicatorPrime]

Exactly. It didn’t use to be like that.

The prestige was more a figment of the readers' minds than anything. One of the first major roster overhauls was the Kookie Quartet. It included 3 villains in Hawkeye, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch. Other members like the Swordsman (another shady fellow) and the Mantis (a former prostitute) would join later. It's ok to yearn for yesteryear, but let's at least be fully honest with ourselves about the truth of "the good ol' days."

Organizations like the Avengers and SHIELD probably should be more selective with membership. But if editorial imposed a hard rule with that in mind, it's the readers that would get screwed. It runs the risk of limiting writers too much. In a world where everyone has something to contribute, on any given day the person who saves the world could be the one that you least expect; someone who wouldn't pass a simple high school exit exam, let alone a battery of SHIELD or Avengers screenings.

[Dermie]

A-Force was official - they were Carol's team, one of four in that era (Sunspot's New Avengers, Iron Man's ANAD Avengers, and Rogue's Unity Squad being the others). They disbanded due to Civil War II, as She-Hulk was incapacitated in that event, and IVX happened immediately after which ended with Medusa going off-world.

They were not an official Avengers team - they were a team of heroes who happened to include two Avengers in it. To the best of my recollection, no one ever referred to them as "Avengers" in-story. Medusa, Dazzler and Nico have never been listed as "Avengers" anywhere that I have seen.

I don't think its accurate to refer to them as "Carol's team" either; She-Hulk was portrayed as the group leader as much or more than Carol was.

[Username taken]

The Avengers have always just been a team of whoever.

If Two-Gun Kid can be an Avenger, anybody can be. And that's a good thing.

This.

The Avengers isn’t the Justice League (even they have had a lot of unorthodox members).

Anyone can be an Avenger and it’s been like that for decades now. It’s too late to go back.

[Sutekh]

By your definition the Kooky Quartet ruined everything.

Exactly. Once the Avengers took in two members of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants and a carny crook trick archer, in love with a Russian spy (who *also* later became a member!), it was all over, and even that was just a step down from the founding team, which included the frikkin' Hulk, who, on his *best* days, isn't exactly a heroic paragon like Captain America...

Standards? Can't lose 'em if ya never had 'em.

I'm a big fan of lots of Avengers who are hardly 'Earth's mightiest heroes,' like Stingray and Living Lightning and Yellowjacket 2 (Rita) and Dr. Druid and Jocasta, as well as some less-popular powerhouses like Sersi and Moondragon. Just because they don't sell as well as Cap, Tony and Thor, and can't hold down their own solo, doesn't mean they don't belong on an Avengers team.

[gurkle]

As Captain America explained to Ms. Marvel in Avengers #194 (back when she was just someone whose solo comic failed to sell), what makes an Avenger is just... wanting to be part of a team and believing that teamwork brings out the best in them.

[destinyascension]

Anyone remember when being an Avenger was a badge of honor?

I don’t see them like that anymore with having members like Ex Nihlo and Starbrand as well as those Dark Avengers.

Avengers have lost their honor from my perspective and have become just another Initiative type team which almost anyone can join.

Should Uncanny be considered an official team? That horrible newer West Coast branch?? Savage Avengers???

No.

They need to go official again and wipe the slate of dishonorable persons and unofficial teams.

Moonstone an Avenger? No effing way.

What?
When were Normans Dark Avengers considered official Avengers? Or are you considering Dark Avengers as Official Avengers?

Moonstone was never an Avenger.
What do you have against her? Her back story and character were dragged through the mud in Dark Reign & Dark Avengers.
From Manipulative Opportunist to Psychotic Serial Killer. Which made Osborne & Bullseye look like Saints.

[ed2962]

I'm reminded of Children's Crusade when the X-Men and the Avengers finally catch up with Scarlet Witch. Wiccan is trying to calm everyone down and Scott Summers or someone says, "What? We're supposed to just forgive her cause she says she's sorry?" And Wiccan's reply is, "Yes! Half the people on both your teams are ex-criminals..."

[Holt]

Namor's responsible for how many deaths by now? And yet both the Avengers and X-Men (and hell, the Defenders too) have welcomed him with open arms.

[Ultimate Captain America]

Other than mutants, who have their own franchise and "everybody can be in it" team... is there any remaining superhero who has not been an avenger yet? Even Blade got his chance by now.

[Holt]

Silver Surfer is probably the most prominent non-mutant hero who has never been an Avenger.

[Gaastra]

What?
When were Normans Dark Avengers considered official Avengers? Or are you considering Dark Avengers as Official Avengers?

Moonstone was never an Avenger.
What do you have against her? Her back story and character were dragged through the mud in Dark Reign & Dark Avengers.
From Manipulative Opportunist to Psychotic Serial Killer. Which made Osborne & Bullseye look like Saints.

Wasn't dark avengers a official avengers team by the government? They sure acted that way when they teamed up with the mighty avengers (leading to hank and Osborn insulting each other in secret and telling the people around they are just comparing notes.)

I'm sure cap wouldn't see them as members but at the time it sounded like they were a official avengers team at the time. Not sure how they are now (as they were arrested at the end of that story right?) or if they still are?

[Voices From the Eyrie]

You think Avengers lost their honour by letting in various members? Hah!
Oh sweetie, one of their first members is a vicious murderer who has gotten away with it.
Storm, Rogue & Human Torch aren't the problem...

Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister, Magneto....

[kcekada]

My problem with the current approach is that it’s too small, too exclusive and focuses on stars with their own books instead of the B-listers who are the real Avengers core cast. I’d gladly take extra Avengers team if it had the “real” Avengers like Scarlet Witch, Vision and Hawkeye.

While I don't think teams of all B-listers is great for sales, I also don't think that a team of all A-listers is great for reading. The only time I pick up the current book is when other characters like the Russian heroes or Squadron Supreme show up. The B-listers were great because their stories continued while the A-listers stories mostly were told out of the Avengers books.

It's a shame that DC's Justlce League does pretty much the same. I loved when members like Green Arrow, Black Canary and Red Tornado were members.