When being an Avenger used to mean something

[danielsan52]

Anyone remember when being an Avenger was a badge of honor?

I don’t see them like that anymore with having members like Ex Nihlo and Starbrand as well as those Dark Avengers.

Avengers have lost their honor from my perspective and have become just another Initiative type team which almost anyone can join.

Should Uncanny be considered an official team? That horrible newer West Coast branch?? Savage Avengers???

No.

They need to go official again and wipe the slate of dishonorable persons and unofficial teams.

Moonstone an Avenger? No effing way.

Unfortunately this would mean new members from unofficial teams would have their membership revoked. Rogue, Johnny Storm, Ex Nihlo (yuck), etc. would no longer be official members. (This would make for a great storyline.)

There should be one official team with maybe a coastal branch that aren’t shooting a reality show.

[gurkle]

But this is exactly what they’re doing now. There is one Avengers team, and the very few books that have “Avengers” in the title are clearly not supposed to be real Avengers team. The Avengers cast hasn’t been smaller or more exclusive in years, maybe decades.

My problem with the current approach is that it’s too small, too exclusive and focuses on stars with their own books instead of the B-listers who are the real Avengers core cast. I’d gladly take extra Avengers team if it had the “real” Avengers like Scarlet Witch, Vision and Hawkeye.

But I also think that ever since they put three minor ex-villains on the team, “the team anyone can join” is part of the Avengers identity. It’s what separates them from the exclusive X-Men and Fantastic Four. Literally anyone can be an Avenger if they’re good enough for the job.

[Grapeweasel]

By your definition the Kooky Quartet ruined everything.

[JasmineW]

You think Avengers lost their honour by letting in various members? Hah!
Oh sweetie, one of their first members is a vicious murderer who has gotten away with it.
Storm, Rogue & Human Torch aren't the problem...

[Personamanx]

The Avengers is just the title of a magazine in which various characters team up to defeat enemies they could easily handle alone in their own title.

[Dermie]

You're making the problem sound worse than it is. Not all of these "Avengers" teams are actually considered Avengers IN-STORY.

The Dark Avengers are not considered an "official" Avengers team by the Avengers themselves. They had official government status at the time due to Norman Osborn, but you can believe that if there is a situation where Captain America needs to call on every Avenger ever (like they did at the start of the Busiek/Perez run), the call is NOT going to be going out to Bullseye, Norman Osborn, Mac Gargan, etc.

The Savage Avengers are also not an actual Avengers team--although a number of the characters who have appeared in it ARE actual Avengers. But that is a case of a book that has "Avengers" thrown in the title for sales purposes. In-story there is nothing connecting that team to the Avengers franchise; they are just groups that happen to include one or two actual Avengers in the cast so the "Avengers" name was slapped on the cover to boost sales. The same was true for A-FORCE and OCCUPY AVENGERS...although Red Wolf from OCCUPY was later granted official status after working with the Avengers in the "No Surrender" storyline.

The Avengers Unity Squad (the UNCANNY team) absolutely are an official Avengers team. That was the entire point -- the Avengers reaching out and embracing the mutant community (and later the Inhuman community as well) to try and do their part for promoting equality and tolerance within the Marvel Universe.

The new West Coast Avengers are a bit trickier. Its hard to say at this point whether the main Avengers would consider them 'official' members or not. Both Hawkeyes are official Avengers, which is a point in their favour. However, if you remove Clint the team suddenly looks more like a new Young Avengers which are more of a satellite team, like the Great Lakes Avengers.

[danielsan52]

The Avengers is just the title of a magazine in which various characters team up to defeat enemies they could easily handle alone in their own title.

Exactly. It didn’t use to be like that.

[gurkle]

Oh sweetie, one of their first members is a vicious murderer who has gotten away with it.

I know you mean the Scarlet Witch (inaccurately; Doom did it and she was punished enough anyway) but honestly you’ll have to be more specific; Iron Man committed literal murder in the 90s and Hank Pym built a murderbot.

Their own members making messes they then get credit for cleaning up is also part of the Avengers brand.

[Personamanx]

Exactly. It didn’t use to be like that.

It's been the core concept, and selling point since day one. Your problem seems to be when it deviates from that formula.

[gurkle]

If anything there should be more people who become Avengers. I realize it’s tricky for characters who are controlled by another editorial office like Sunspot and Cannonball, but for example it shouldn’t have taken until 2005 for Luke Cage to join the Avengers (TBF he almost did in the 80s). Cast a wider net, make more out of left field choices, some of them will work out like Wanda and Clint and T’Challa did in the 60s.

[JasmineW]

I know you mean the Scarlet Witch (inaccurately; Doom did it and she was punished enough anyway) but honestly you’ll have to be more specific; Iron Man committed literal murder in the 90s and Hank Pym built a murderbot.

Their own members making messes they then get credit for cleaning up is also part of the Avengers brand.

How exactly was Wanda punished?
I don't remember the Avengers chasing her down CONSTANTLY like they did Scott Summers?

And yes, you're right about those other flops, I guess the Avengers are one big group of f-up's?

[Holt]

Who are these supposedly dishonorable members, exactly? Because nobody actually considered the Dark Avengers actual Avengers even at the time the book was being published. That was kinda the point. They were usurpers.

[Snoop Dogg]

Who are these supposedly dishonorable members, exactly? Because nobody actually considered the Dark Avengers actual Avengers even at the time the book was being published. That was kinda the point. They were usurpers.

Spider-Man is a threat and a menace.

[XPac]

Exactly. It didn’t use to be like that.

It's too late to go backwards.

Because Avengers as a brand is so powerful, marvel knows they can slap it on any book and it will help sales. So that's what they do.

For what it's worth, IMO being an Avenger still does mean something. The notion is arguably watered down to a degree.... but because the brands value has gone up, it doesn't really hurt it too bad.

[Digifiend]

You're making the problem sound worse than it is. Not all of these "Avengers" teams are actually considered Avengers IN-STORY.

The Dark Avengers are not considered an "official" Avengers team by the Avengers themselves. They had official government status at the time due to Norman Osborn, but you can believe that if there is a situation where Captain America needs to call on every Avenger ever (like they did at the start of the Busiek/Perez run), the call is NOT going to be going out to Bullseye, Norman Osborn, Mac Gargan, etc.

The Savage Avengers are also not an actual Avengers team--although a number of the characters who have appeared in it ARE actual Avengers. But that is a case of a book that has "Avengers" thrown in the title for sales purposes. In-story there is nothing connecting that team to the Avengers franchise; they are just groups that happen to include one or two actual Avengers in the cast so the "Avengers" name was slapped on the cover to boost sales. The same was true for A-FORCE and OCCUPY AVENGERS...although Red Wolf from OCCUPY was later granted official status after working with the Avengers in the "No Surrender" storyline.

The Avengers Unity Squad (the UNCANNY team) absolutely are an official Avengers team. That was the entire point -- the Avengers reaching out and embracing the mutant community (and later the Inhuman community as well) to try and do their part for promoting equality and tolerance within the Marvel Universe.

The new West Coast Avengers are a bit trickier. Its hard to say at this point whether the main Avengers would consider them 'official' members or not. Both Hawkeyes are official Avengers, which is a point in their favour. However, if you remove Clint the team suddenly looks more like a new Young Avengers which are more of a satellite team, like the Great Lakes Avengers.

Kate's WCA definitely aren't official. She took a phone call from an angry Steve Rogers at the end of the first arc. He didn't approve!

A-Force was official - they were Carol's team, one of four in that era (Sunspot's New Avengers, Iron Man's ANAD Avengers, and Rogue's Unity Squad being the others). They disbanded due to Civil War II, as She-Hulk was incapacitated in that event, and IVX happened immediately after which ended with Medusa going off-world.