When being an Avenger used to mean something

[davew128]

No idea when that time was. It seemed to be handed around like a hot potato.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20180101060656

[MichaelC]

Anyone remember when being an Avenger was a badge of honor?

I don’t see them like that anymore with having members like Ex Nihlo and Starbrand as well as those Dark Avengers.

Avengers have lost their honor from my perspective and have become just another Initiative type team which almost anyone can join.

Should Uncanny be considered an official team? That horrible newer West Coast branch?? Savage Avengers???

No.

They need to go official again and wipe the slate of dishonorable persons and unofficial teams.

Moonstone an Avenger? No effing way.

Unfortunately this would mean new members from unofficial teams would have their membership revoked. Rogue, Johnny Storm, Ex Nihlo (yuck), etc. would no longer be official members. (This would make for a great storyline.)

There should be one official team with maybe a coastal branch that aren’t shooting a reality show.

A version of this thread has come up before, so I'll say the same thing I did in that one: the Avengers is just whoever Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor can draft for the latest world-threatening emergency. Everything else about it is just fluff Stark's public relations department makes up to keep the normals calm. It's actually part of its identity that it's almost like the French Foreign Legion. Are you ready to die to save earth from Ultron or alien invaders? You're in! Criminal record, criminal shmecord, if you can point your laser-eyes or whatever at Thanos and are willing to die if it comes to it, you're in.

[FreshGuy]

No I completely disagree. I also wouldn't call the recent West Coast Avengers book awful. It is great and features many characters I like.

I miss having more Avengers book. I really liked New Avengers/U.S. Avengers

I'd like to see a revival of Young Avengers, Great Lakes Avengers and New Avengers.

[HipHopAvenger]

I think we need more Avengers books (New, Mighty, WC, Secret) with Savage Avengers being given a different name.
And for the main to have a bigger rotating cast

[Steel Inquisitor]

A version of this thread has come up before, so I'll say the same thing I did in that one: the Avengers is just whoever Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor can draft for the latest world-threatening emergency. Everything else about it is just fluff Stark's public relations department makes up to keep the normals calm. It's actually part of its identity that it's almost like the French Foreign Legion. Are you ready to die to save earth from Ultron or alien invaders? You're in! Criminal record, criminal shmecord, if you can point your laser-eyes or whatever at Thanos and are willing to die if it comes to it, you're in.

Since Bendis the Avengers have grown outside that structure, they aren't solely tied to Iron Man any longer if they don't wish to be. IIRC the Avengers are under Wakanda jurisdiction right now. The Avengers don't allow just any criminal in their ranks, they have stricter regulations than the Justice League. For example, Lex Luthor was a member of the Justice League!

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...justice-671850

DC Entertainment's currently running Forever Evil storyline is going to have long-lasting ramifications for many titles in the publisher's superhero line -- including the Justice League family of titles, which undergoes a significant reinvention in its wake.

That reinvention includes Lex Luthor apparently replacing Superman in the core team -- with Flash villain Captain Cold seemingly taking the place of the Fastest Man Alive, as well -- and another team of heroes moving north (and into space).

[JasmineW]

Straight and to the point. Very well said.

I must have missed the point completely, when were Sinister & Apocalypse ever Avengers?

[ARkadelphia]

I must have missed the point completely, when were Sinister & Apocalypse ever Avengers?

Yup. You did alright.

[JasmineW]

Yup. You did alright.

In what issues then exactly?

[stingray]

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20180101060656

Yeah, and this certainly wasn't the only time. There were press conferences a bunch of times. In the now classic Busiek Perez run, there was even an Avengers Day, complete with a parade. Also from that run, Justice was in awe of making it onto the team, considering it to be the big leagues. He was always worried he wasn't worthy, and eventually wanted to go back to the New Warriors because of that. So yes, being an Avenger did used to mean something. When there's a crisis coming, the public ALWAYS calls for the Avengers to do something about it, not anyone else. They also used to have a no-killing rule that made for some interesting and controversial stories including Galactic Storm and others. That went out the window a while ago when Wolverine and Deadpool and guys like that joined. I also think the B listers were always the most interesting members of the team, and I'd really like to see Vision, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, Wonder Man and others show up, maybe in a separate title.

[DrNewGod]

Over the whole of their nearly 60 years, the Avengers have rarely been end-to-end stacked with Marvel's most prominent characters, and so more often than not, have not had that sort of meta-stature with the readership that the Justice League has had more often than not. That said, with a few notable exceptions, there always seemed to be an in-story conceit that The Avengers were viewed as an elite organization. In fact, as others have pointed out, the group was often made up of whomever was available for draft into the ranks, at one point consisting of Only Goliath (Pym), Hawkeye, and the Wasp.

Tellingly, the Avengers have usually not been viewed (in-story) as superior to the FF, and until AvX (in-story) they were depicted as apples-and-oranges in comparison to the X-Men, and didn't get compared to the Defenders at all (who the in-story public usually doesn't even know exists). Still, they were the ones first granted access to secure government connections, and they (along with the FF) were the ones countering planetary threats while Spider-Man was chasing old codgers dressed as birds across the skyline. That's not to say that other characters weren't doing big, world-saving stuff, they just weren't getting recognized (in-universe) for being planet savers.

So, I do see the OP's point to the extent that in-universe the Avengers once had a stature that's probably been diluted by all the variants.

[davew128]

Bear in mind that the Avengers were government sanctioned long before Tony Stark dumped the secret identity of his armored "bodyguard". Heck, when Jean Grey first flipped out in Central Park, it was President Carter who was calling the mansion for help only to find that on duty member Hank McCoy had run off to assist his former X-teammates down the street.

[Sutekh]

Bear in mind that the Avengers were government sanctioned long before Tony Stark dumped the secret identity of his armored "bodyguard". Heck, when Jean Grey first flipped out in Central Park, it was President Carter who was calling the mansion for help only to find that on duty member Hank McCoy had run off to assist his former X-teammates down the street.

And yet the US *military* was willing to call the X-Men to come deal with an attack on one of their bases, and the government has been on the phone to the FF, X-Men and even *Dr. Strange* at times, to deal with stuff. It's not like the Avengers are unique in that area, as it was a sort of standard intro during the golden age.

You are right 'though, that, over the years, that has fallen away, and become more of an artefact of classic age storytelling, and not something that has become worked into the narrative, the way the Avengers relationships with the government have been.